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Eric Seffinga

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Everything posted by Eric Seffinga

  1. And at the threat of beating the dead equine, I just want to point out again, that the reason modern art is so seemingly plentiful is that it's modern. And back in the 70s when that art was modern, it too was plentiful Sold by the stack full, and out of trunks, etc. Hand colored by kids, or poorly trimmed/framed and otherwise with, by it's owners. I know the arguments of 'compressed" vs "uncompressed" and the arguments of vintage art's superiority (despite the fact that there is schlocky and filler in EVERY era of comic creation. At the end of the day, the older stuff is scarcer because it's had a 10, 20, 30+ year head start. Come back in 30 years and lets talk about the glut/dearth of modern art. Until then it's just more educated guesswork. How many people thought their early 2000s $50 Preacher talking heads pages were gonna bring in what they do now? Well other than MNSN? Back in the 90s and early 2000sguitarists ragged on how terrible a 70s Fender guitar was. It was the era, and anyone that paid more than a few hundred bucks was a damn fool. Now, Fender makes REISSUES of 70s Strats and sells them for $2K+. That's crazy sauce, IMO. Never think you know what's going to play out for collectability and what is inherently superior or not. The future is just waiting to laugh at you!
  2. To paraphrase a quote from the late great Jeff Jones... "6 Inches!!!" His response to a collector on the Comicart-L who had talked about trimming some "excess" border off of an original once. He indicated that said collector needed to keep his hands (and scissors) six inches away from artwork at all times. It was a bit of a goof, but the underlying intent was that if you really want to be a lover of art originals, you take the path of do no harm. Not unlike the medical profession. There are instances of preservation that are not only welcome but warranted. But in the world of restoration and renovation for personal preference, Jones' inferrence was that one better keep their hands 6 inches away, lest they do something they later regret. The kicker here is that it was the original creator that did the modifications. At the owners behest, of course, but still it was his hand. If he had a problem with it, he wouldn't have done it. Seems like he was into it. If it were something I'd bought, I'd have kept it as-is. Simply because I am a lover of the process of original art as much as I am of the content of the pages. So to me, I'd never even think of changing the thing to suit my personal tastes. Same as I'd never give a page to Steve Oliffe to color, or cut out panels of my favorite pages and hot glue them to my favorite coffee table. And I totally could, if I wanted to. But that's not for me. I'm not in love with having a big representation of the published art on the wall. I could go to Kinkos with a clean copy of the book and make myself one of those for next to nothing. I'm into the OA. I see it as that simple. I'm with Gene in that I just don't see this having any knock on effect to the Lee market, beyond this one page. It's become it's own outlier. Could go cheap at auction. Could be unsellable. Could sell just fine. But it's not like it's a piece of one of the greatest comic stories of all time, that's been rendered ash. It's one of hundreds just like it. Or near enough. But the creator drew over it. It's not like he had some uninvolved party to the book bust out the inks on it. I'd never tell anyone else what to do with their possessions. But then I didn't shed any tears over those burned Ottley Invisibles pages. Or the time the post office totally crushed (I think it was) an Archie page. Mostly cause I'd no interest in that stuff anyhow. Now if a well know collector of a certain title like Saunter Lee was having Jill Thompson watercolor all of his Sandman pages, or using them to decoupage his bathroom, I'd have out the pitchfork and torch faster than you can say Morpheus. -e.
  3. I saw that a while back and was hoping it was yours. Cool!
  4. Looks like you've REALLY made yourself at home. Where does the Mrs. sleep? That's a lotta space. Like your own private toy/comic shop!
  5. I looked up Pat Lee, and ended up reading his Wiki page. Scandalrific!
  6. Yeah, not cool. Sad, but unsurprised. I think we see people use internet communities more and more like their own personal classifieds section. I don't just see it in comic art, but all facets of hobies and collecting. Some folks really don't seem to see a benefit in just taking part in a place or an event, with a shared interest. For some people, it seems like everything and every place is fair game for hocking their wares if there are eyes there. Not that we as a community should stand for it at all.
  7. It's woefully lacking in bulging codpieces and cocoa butter for sure.
  8. I figured it was something like that. I didn't really go back into the 70s material until my late teen years. Discovering my first comic shop in the mid 80s was a revelation. Having a car to get to the comic shop myself? A whole other world opened up.
  9. Whenever I hear someone mention Bermejo, I always think of a review that another comic artist (who will remain nameless) said once. "Everything that guy draws looks like a crumpled paper bag." He's lost some of that "style" at this point, and has matured. But it still is first thing I think of when I see his work. Apologies to the Bermejo fans.
  10. Gene, I would have thought you were an 80s kid too, with maybe a smidge of 70s during the prime comic reader years (8-18) give or take. Granted I went backward and read some 70s stuff during my teens when comic shops started opening up more frequently and I could get to them. But my early years, up until say 13-ish, I only really read what I could find on a spinner rack, which was all new. No local comic shows that I was aware of, and no older kids to get older issues from. I would have been 13 in 1986, and that was the year of DKR. It kinda blew everything open for me after that. Kids in middle school brought those issues in, and I remember several of us standing around and oohing and ahhing. Was the year I discovered Ninja Turtles existed, and ultimately the world of indy books, via the comic shop. In retrospect most of them were sweaty balls too, so hey. Plenty of misery to go round. And we all looked ridiculous with our feathered hair, and fake Jackson parachute pants. It's true.
  11. If it means even more participation from folks that aren't so involved, I'm all for it.
  12. I've read every post in this thread top to bottom, and wanted to add that I think there's a ton of insight to be had from everyone participating, for anybody taking the time to read all of it. I wouldn't completely discount anything that's been said actually. There's a merit to all of it, and we can all recognize this to differing degrees, and ultimately it's all good food for thought. Gene's points about the early story compression giving the occasional single page the maximum number of elements/artifacts, touchstones whatever you want to call them is fair, and understandable. Who as a serious collector doesn't often want what feels like captured lightning in a bottle? The essence of a particular book hanging on the wall for all to see. The one that OTHER lovers of a book will see and covet and bow down to? A totem of sorts, that we are able to see and feel and understand as closely to our nostalgia as the original art will take us? I dare say we are all susceptible to that pang and pull, no matter what we are into. What I think is interesting is that, despite not being interested or far less interested in the OA, many will also concede that there are modern books that are as good or better than their vintage counterparts. Better art. Better storytelling. Sometimes both. Who wouldn't want to own some of THAT? I get it some don't, but it doesn't compute for me personally. What I see in modern OA is that some of it really is better than the issues of books I read as a kid. I want a piece of that too. I love comic OA. I just do. I am a fan of the medium. I love seeing original pages from books I know nothing about, just because I can easily admire and respect the work, even the stuff I don't want to own or collect personally. And maybe it's naive and altruistic of me to say that I still enjoy supporting a medium that has given me so much joy over the decades since finding my first OA page, (and the atom bomb of recognition of the stuff being available that it represented.) In a way, anyone that buys modern OA is continuing on as a patron of the form. I welcome that from any and all. Even if it means competition (or eventually less of it as people bow out). I like buying pieces directly from artists (or their reps) because I want to show those creators that I appreciate what they do, and to give them financial encouragement to continue to push the boundaries of the form. I LOVE comic art. I love people that love comic art. Paradoxically I love that much of the world doesn't love comic art. Maybe that's my old punk rock spirit showing? But it's also true. It's a club of sorts. A tribe. Sure, the new pages don't have the text balloons. Neither did most of my painted pages from the 90s. Some occasionally came with the letterers white overlay on tissue paper, but many did not. I bought them anyway. And the stuff I hung, I put clear overlays on a floating layer above the OA in the frame when I felt like I wanted it there. I eventually got over that though. A personal choice. But I could add bubbles to overlays again if I felt the need. It wouldn't take away that the page is a great book from a great story. That fact would still be true sans-bubbles. I'd just have to do the legwork. People don't seem to have a problem doing that legwork on vintage pieces when it suits them. Though it is important if selling a piece, to note that the overlay is not original from the process, so all is on the up and up. I'll use Sandman as an example, because it was a bridge of the period. My first Sandman page was hand lettered. My last Sandman page was stat lettering, glued to the board. So technically, that board doesn't have the lettering "on it". But it's present. And I like that it's there. I really do. But I'd have bought it anyway, had it not been. Why? Because I love Sandman. The Zulli pencil pages from the last arc? Lettered on tissue overlays. You had to remove them to actually see the delicate pencils properly. All perfectly acceptable in my little world of OA. I see reading new stories as making new "nostalgia" points in my life. In my 40s now, I look back on my 20s and they were very different. And books like Stray Bullets and Madman, and Sandman, etc. I have a large amount of nostalgia for those times. Yet I wasn't 10 years old. I don't need that kiddie connection for the nostalgia to exist. But it is different in the kind of material that I carry as adult nostalgia. Its the kind of material I can enjoy as an adult. I don't mean dirty pictures, I mean intellectually. I don't need new art to be created the way I want it to be, for it to capture my interest. I accept the art form for what it is, and what may lack in it's current state. Would it be nice if the books were still lettered on the page? Sometimes, yeah. But I'll take them as they are vs not having them at all (i.e. digital, etc.) Having a piece of a great book is still lighting in a bottle for me. For someone else, perhaps those missing elements are just a bridge too far? I treat buying modern OA the same as I did when I started. It's a disposable enjoyment. The glee I get from looking at a piece produced by a creator that I admire far outweighs the few hundred dollars I've spent on the occasional panel page. As far as I'm concerned, most of it is still fairly affordable. I bought a couple pages this year that were $150. That's what I spent on my first Sandman page 20+ years ago. I never thought that Sandman page would get the offers I have PMd to me all the time through CAF. And really I could care less about those offers. I love that art. I never wanted the pages to go up so much. I didn't expect it would then, and I don't expect my new OA to go up either. And they may not. But again, when I get a charge out of seeing that OA? It's worth it every time. I've spent 5 figures for that charge before, knowing much of that could go up in smoke if I sold it. But the thrill, in my lifetime, life is to short to not enjoy these small pleasures that add up so much day to day. It's why I frame and live with so much of my collection daily. IMO if it's great art, from a great story, I'm supporting a great book. I can't fault that in any way, text or no. Maybe in 10 years time no one will give any about my pages. Or maybe in retrospect the pages will be from something perceived as the next Dark Knight? A paradigm shift in the field could come at any point, even through a fractured market. If a book is brilliant, people will find it eventually. Look at Walking Dead and it's numbers. And I dare say it's a good book, and at times a great book But never a truly brilliant one. But I think a brilliant use of the medium could come along. Truly. And it may not have lettering on the pages. People always say these things can't happen or will never happen. Until they do. Or don't. I wouldn't ever speculate on this stuff, but it really does always come back to the old adage we all repeat over and over again. Buy what you love. That simple. Always has been. Those of us who can't love Modern OA, for whatever hangups we carry, it's not for us. And that's OK. But I remember a time when people thrashed Kelley Jones for his style on Batman, and lamented how it sucked compared to Adams. And similarly again the love it/hate it style of Tim Sale. There are still people who can't stand his Batman work. But I've seen both go from cult figures to gaining very large acceptance as people grew to enjoy their work, and even long for it nostalgically. I mean for gods sake, Liefeld has a following again. And believe me it's not the word bubbles or his compressed storytelling driving that market. Compressed waists, cheeks and good taste, maybe but... it's still fun. I'm not ready to rule out the acceptance of modern OA over the next decade. As for it's ultimate sustainability beyond? Most all comic art will fall by the wayside eventually, and the stuff from the past we think is important today may be a mere blip compared to something that becomes a phenomenon in the meantime. We might all be thinking Dark Knight, and it turns out to be WD or Scott Pilgrim. Or Blankets getting taught in schools, or who knows? But the rest will largely be landfill fodder and be propped up against walls in antique stores with photos of someones long dead grandparents, and some bronze doodad that was fashionable for a time. I don't see a way around that larger scenario. It's bound to happen. But barring global catastrophe, just as there are still collectors of Williamson's Secret Agent X9 strip art today, there will still be some 30-something year old guy out there looking for Tradd Moore's Strode pages because they dig it. Even if they didn't get to read it in the original funny pages. Maybe it was in digicopies on Uncle Bill's holopad, and they fell in love with it. Or it was from seeing the Luther Strode 3: The Legacy movie or playing some video game with old-timey characters like Luther as a hidden bonus feature? No, not a ton of comic readers are kids. But I know a bunch who are. The future of comics may be smaller, but it doesn't mean the few that get involved will love it any less. Sorry, I totally started rambling off the road again! I'm sure there was a point in there somewhere when I started.
  13. I cast all my votes, and I gotta say I found the interior panel page, and the Unpublished/Published Other categories to be the toughest. Any given day I could have put together whole other sets of votes. Boy that was tough.
  14. This bugs the ever loving outta me too. When do we start seeing the polybags and foils make a resurgence? That whole Dark Knight Master race nonsense? Crazy.
  15. But for the price of ASM 121, I could have so much other art. I'm not a Spidey fan. Never have been. I'd take a raft of modern "forgettables" over that unforgettable butt shot, if it was my money to spend. And I'm not much of a modern comic OA collector or reader. I'd go in eyes wide open, knowing my heirs would probably lose more of the money I spent on the aftermarket when I die with those modern pieces to sell, but I'd enjoy the other art more. I dunno, it's a weird thing to speak for everyone. It's why I try to only speak for myself when I am parsing out the realities of "the market". I am satisfied both with the fact that I'm an anomaly in the OA world, and that I also know myself well enough to know that looking at a Spidey butt (that I couldn't care less about) and having all the comments in the world on CAF about what a stud I am, would mean little. I'd rather have a piece that makes me giddy, even if the rest of the world wouldn't give 1/2 a turd for it. Maybe there are more out there like me? Maybe I'm a millennial trapped in the body of a 40-something year old good-fer-nothin!
  16. also keep in mind the deadline nature of the work. Turnaround on these had to be tight, given the level of skill/finish involved here. Which isn't to say it wouldn't bug the bejeezus out of me if it was on my wall. If this was my second Raymond, then maybe I'd be more OK with it as a cool conversaion piece, but as I have none, it wouldn't be something I'd spring for. Not sure where my cave-in point would be as a "steal" and worth spending the funds, because I can think of a lot of other work that isn't jacked up, that I could by from other artists with the same scratch. A head scratcher for sure.
  17. For me personally, it depends page to page. I agree as a general rule, but there have been instances where the lettering actually takes away from the visual appearance of a page, or pages. At least in the way I approach collecting, which is to frame and hang. Sometimes within the context of the story and dependent on what is taken away from the page, by removing the lettering blocks/bubbles, the page presents... cleaner. If the dialogue is a half finished thought, or a moment where the bubbles don't really add much or are just re-enforcing the action on the page. Off the top of my head there was a page of Jim Lee's from Hush that had a great moment between Gordon, Batman and a lightning flash. The lettering wasn't there on the OA. I could see some folks liking that page/moment more with the dialogue in place, but I liked it better without the "speaking". It was more powerful to me, that way. But on the whole, I'd agree.
  18. Let me add this. The argument MYNAMEISLEGION makes regarding continuity assumes we are all talking about Marvel and DC, and ignores that the modern comic market and audience has fractured greatly. A surging demographic today among creators and audiences is towards creator owned books thorough alternative imprints. Whether it’s Dark Horse, or Image, or even one of the dozens (hundreds) of smaller publishers and indies out there. Didn't Image just pass DC numbers recently? The reason I bring this up, is that MYNAMEISLEGION argument regarding continuity really only applies to the big guys that I am aware of. Many, if not most comic stories via these other publishers these days, don’t do that. Most of them have singular stories to tell. Either in a finite way as shorter run series, or in a long form way, like Walking Dead. Or even in the case of Mignola’s books, very long interweaving stories, that all follow one long continuity. It’s a bit short-sighted to think that because Marvel and DC have turned the reboot into such a normal activity and are killing off interest, that other new comics follow that trend. There is a reason so many modern readers are a different demographic, have different interest, and are reading different books, and that the market shares are shifting. Creators are doing exactly what we all said should have been done for Kirby, Siegel and Shuster. They are taking their ideas elsewhere. Image, as a publisher has seen a massive revival in the number and variety of books they are publishing, and it stems from the fact that their creators own their material. Simple as that. The quality of the material reflects the effort put into it, because it all rides on the creator’s efforts. These creators don’t have (or want) the history and characters to fall back on and bank on. They are plowing their own rows, and reaping their own rewards. What does all this have to do with the topic at hand? Aside from refuting the idea that continuity reboots will eventually kill off comic art interest, I’d proffer that these new collectors will just come in a different door. Their interests will be adjusted to what are their norms. And us old guys will badmouth their style of collecting just like their music or their taste in clothing. As Gene has said often, collectors of the future need some connection to comics in their past, in order to buy OA as an earning adult. I’m suggesting that their norms for what is acceptable in OA will be different then ours. They may fall in love with OA from a modern book, and only buy one or two pages in their lean, just-out-of-school years, but double back later on. That there will be some that migrate into collecting older material even. I severely doubt that they’ll prop up the market in any way shape or form, as we’ve come to know it anyway. It will be a different market. And there will be OA collectors. Maybe it’ll go back in a way, more towards those early years where there were far fewer people seeking out the stuff, and the prices will take a hefty correction. Or mess will hit the fan globally, and no one will give a rats about OA, or guitars, or vintage cars, or paintings, or whatever, while we're all hung up on gas or water or other essentials? Anything can happen. But the way I see the current trajectory, I’d see the market shrinking, but not entirely dying off. And I don’t see modern OA as soulless. Just different. And some people will continue to keep up with it, like old guys listening to Mass Gothic, or Sheer Mag vs. sticking with Led Zeppelin and Nirvana. FWIW, I think we're all talking about different shades of the same thing. Just through slightly different viewpoints, with differing nuances. -e. FYI: I had to Google for the first 2. Heh!
  19. Well to be fair, I have sold "other things" to buy art in the past. Stocks, vintage guitars and amps, toys. And vice versa, really. Depending on what I was chasing, or hole I was filling at the time. I suppose the hunt for liquidity and a certain personal parity in possessions is at play for most at different times of our lives, to be sure.