Bomber-Bob

I do however believe that the pressing game has ruined the desirability of lower graded books somewhat. Depends on your definition of lower graded books. Personally, I now go after many more 8.5 and 9.0's than previously. Uber graded books are no longer rare, in many cases they are a wasting asset. Though I buy only for my collection, I still don't like the fact that my high grades are depreciating. I'm better off picking up a cheap 9.0 with nice eye appeal and of course nice pages !

This certainly makes you wonder about just how shallow the pool of buyers out there really is, though. If a decent percentage of the TC books were bought from Heritage by dealers looking to press and flip the books, how many real end buyers are there, or is this just a big shell game of a few people passing the same assets back and forth to each other at ever increasing prices, thus creating the illusion of rising prices? Being a full time dealer sheds a little light on what happens behind the curtains. Going into it, I was a little worried about how shallow the pool is. I can say that there are more buyers that I used to think there was when I was a part time dealer. Without giving anything away, I'll just say that they come from the most surprising places. There are many buyers don't even bid on auctions, and some bidders will only deal with certain auctions and not even look at others. For that reason I haven't auctioned a book in a long time (nearly a year). I just wait for a book to find it's buyer. Eventually, it does. (thumbs u Agreed but if the press and flip was my business model, I would be more worried about the pool of uber graded books that can be upgraded. In this case, I believe the availability of the product is more important than the customer base.

I disagree, I have been picking up some Twin Cities books in the 8.5 - 9.2 range that look incredible for the grade. The books are very fresh and bright but you are correct, some have dust shadows. I heard that Heritage was disappointed in the overall grades they got from the collection. As always, different perspectives from everyone.

A couple onsite submissions at Wizard World Chicago.

Great stuff. I heard that this was Mark Haspel's favorite title ?

That's pretty severe,enough that I could understand CGC treating it like a stain. To be honest I would stay away from it. Not worth the gamble. Even if it did get a decent grade many collectors would shy away.

Great copy, congrats. Love those White Pages ! If you ever want to let it go please contact me.

I just noticed there was a Clink sale this year of a 9.0 with OW/W pages for 2175.00 . I suspect the 8.5 Savannah copy went on the low end because the pages were probably CR/OW. Most from this collection were CR/OW.

A gorgeous book. A rare find in that condition and a wonderful acquisition. A beautiful copy of that book. I have a couple copies but not in that condition. I bought one copy at a Beatles convention. Do you plan on submitting it ? It is worthy.

No sales data for 9.0 in two years. A recent sale in 8.5, Savannah pedigree, sold for 657 .

I think I know that seller !

Mike,assuming you are refering to me as upset by the 30 day rule, I am not. I never even asked or suggested the number of days be changed. I just asked for some help with slow shipping incidents and Pov suggested 14 days would address it. Remember, you encouraged me not to back down (). Regarding your suggestion of a seller specifying his own rules in his sales thread is fine by me but it wouldn't help me as a buyer with shipping issues. Maybe it doesn't happen to others but I would think the general populace would desire timely shipping. My only desire is something that will help and encourage timely shipping.

Pov, since it is already in the guidelines, I assume I can simply ask the seller for his shipping times and he is expected to oblige ?

This is perfect as it would allow the buyer to decide if he wants to make a transaction with the seller. As rules are often open to interpretation I believe the estimated shipping times would reflect the required time necessary to initiate the shipment, not necessarily the time length of the shipment, something not always in the seller's control.

Pov, I was not upset with you as much as Sean. Nothing you did deserved such language and angst as he directed toward you. I can certainly set it aside, take the high road as you did. Let's see if others do the same. I would simply like to see a little more civility on these Boards. Sometimes things get out of hand over nonsense. I don't think I have an agenda. I just saw this discussion as an opportunity to discuss something that has been bothering me for a while = sellers that procrastinate with shipping. I am not asking asking for anything other than a little help to get these sellers a little motivation, anything, anything at all.

I did some research on that as well. Once the check is cashed you cannot put a stop payment on it. Depending on which internet site you look at this is not true. I am quoting from the internet site below 'Although it is not obligated to do so, the Bank may decide to honor a Customer's request for a stop payment on either type of check. However, the Bank does so at its own risk ' I once inquired of my local Bank about a stop payment on a Cashier's check. Their research showed the receiving Bank had deposited the check but it was not cashed(money drawn). They said they can send a request to the receiving Bank to get the funds reversed. Such requests are usually honored. In summary, though it is a courtesy with no obligation, a certified or cashier's check can be stopped. http://www.credittoday.net/public/1480.cfm

Bob - I bolded the main argument that prompted me to suggest the 14 days thing.(It really wasn't just rules for rules' sake.) I've done some research and the Fair Trade Act specifies this in regard to disputing a charge: send your letter so that it reaches the creditor within 60 days after the first bill containing the error was mailed to you. So it sounds like we are still covered after a 30 day wait. The relevant page is here: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre16.shtm I appreciate this is United States law. Pov, even so, I think Sean showed tremendous disrespect toward you. He should be apologizing to you and his fellow Boardies. There is no call for such language over trivial nonsense. However, I am sure after reading this he will vent his angst toward me and no longer you. In the spirit of beating a dead horse (I hate that saying) can I get any consideration for a deadbeat seller that doesn't ship. Again, I never asked for a 14 day rule, just something to help motivate the seller to ship in a timely manner. I am asking this because I have experienced it too often for my liking. Most Boardies are great and follow up on their obligations but we have some slackers here. If you want me to name names then PM me.

I don't get it. Somebody tells you on a public internet site 'FU POV. ... You can *spoon* right off'. He effectively imposes his will on you and he wins. I'm just politely asking for consideration to a buyer who promptly pays but doesn't get his book and I lose. Is the only way to get attention around here by treating your fellow Boardies with disrespect and swearing at them? I'm shocked.

Pov, you really did your homework on this. Good stuff, good to know. I checked with Paypal about disputing a charge (if you didn't use CC) and you have 45 days to initiate from the payment date. Checks may be a bit trickier. I just don't know how long a Bank will allow you to initiate a stop payment. I believe each Bank has their own policies. They usually bend a little for Fraud. Even Bank Cashier's checks can be stopped after the check is deposited if there is fraud involved. However, 30 days may be too late. Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.

Trust me, I want to agree with you but experience has shown me it is not always that simple. Once, on a Board transaction, I actually called the auction house the Boardie mentioned he got the book from to obtain his phone number as he was not responding to my PM's. FYI, it actually worked ! I surrender but please note I did not specifically ask for 14 days. I am simply asking that the buyer get some more protection from all this. A seller is not out anything if a Buyer does not pay but a buyer is out cash if a seller does not ship. I would be happy if there could be some general shipping guidelines tighter than 30 days + 72 hours. Heck, even a negative feedback thread would help a little. I succumb to the masses.

I agree. Me too. I try to ship quickly, but sometimes life gets in the way. Everyone I have ever been tardy to has been understanding. Every time I have had someone be tardy to me, I have been understanding. I would hate to have an untenable 14 day rule mess all that up. Sean, just because you have never had a bad experience with a transaction please don't dismiss the fact that it can happen to others. I'll repeat my scenario that has happened to me, I buy a book and pay immediately. I patiently wait 15 days and hear nothing. After a certain point I am concerned and have to make a decision to either call my CC company or face a possible PL. Is this fair to me ? I want to play by the rules but I also want my money back.

Realizing you want to make these rules simple and you are probably tired of discussing them, I apologize in advance for continuing my comments. If a seller fails to receive payment and has to wait 30 days, though irritating, he is not out anything financially. If buyer pays immediately and the seller does not ship, he is out financially. Waiting 30 days may also preclude him from being able to reverse or contest the charges. If I wait, say 15ish days, I get no indication the books have been shipped, I call my CC company. By the Board rules I may be eligible for the PL. Not sure if I like that. Sorry. Honestly, Bob, I am not at all tired of getting real input. What I AM getting tired of is the ocassional "fun offtopic posts" I sometimes feel obliged to make so I don;t look like a stick in the mud. You bring up a VERY valid point. The 30 day rule was brought up a long time back. But your point is well taken, and I always felt 30 days was a bit long. I would be very happy to support a 14 day rule in place of the 30 day. To my thinking, 2 weeks is certainly enough time to both receive payment and ship the book(s) involved. If someone is not prepared to pay quickly why post in the slaes thread? If they are not prepared to ship quickly why advertise? The only caveat to reducing the 30 days to 14 days is if a mutually agreed upon delay between buyer and seller has taken place via PM or email. If this agreed upon extended time is exceeded then it come to the PL. I would hope, though, that an agreed upon delay for shipping is understood to be a disqualifier for certian methods of chargebacks. That should be pointed out in the Guidelines. If we go with this the Guidelines should reflect the time frame as I outlined above, or a better version of it. Pov, sounds good to me. 2 weeks seems adequate. I would think, statistically, that most deals with no action or communication for two weeks, go unresolved after 30 anyway. Let's see how the masses feel about 14 days.

Realizing you want to make these rules simple and you are probably tired of discussing them, I apologize in advance for continuing my comments. If a seller fails to receive payment and has to wait 30 days, though irritating, he is not out anything financially. If buyer pays immediately and the seller does not ship, he is out financially. Waiting 30 days may also preclude him from being able to reverse or contest the charges. If I wait, say 15ish days, I get no indication the books have been shipped, I call my CC company. By the Board rules I may be eligible for the PL. Not sure if I like that. Sorry.

I thought we agreed this would be a serious thread ?

I think you hit the key with the seller clearly stating they need payment in x amount of days. That way if the buyer agrees to buy they are also agreeing to those terms. I would add that if the seller clearly states a time frame for receiving payment, they must clearly state a time frame for them shipping after receipt of payment. That is the only way to even things between buyer and seller rights. If the stated time has passed and no paymentis made, the seller has the right to cancel the transaction. If no shipment is made within the stated time, the buyer has the right to cancel the transaction and request a full refund. If no specific timeframes are stated then the 30 day should be allowed. Thoughts? Thanks for discussing this. The above sounds good on a sale where the seller states his requirements. However, what about the shipping ? I have never seen a seller state his shipping timeframe. From my experience most sellers on the Boards are timely but I have encountered some not-so-timely sellers. Can we(the Boards) require the seller to post his shipping guidelines so that I, as a buyer, can decide if I want to buy from this seller ?