Tony S

What mschmidt said. CGC's long standing policy is they do not combine shipping of tiers that don't have the same Turn Around times. Below is a quote from the FAQ page. The only consistent exception I have seen with this is international shipments, since they do face extremely high shipping rates. Will one shipping fee cover the return of all my submissions if I send in multiple submission forms at the same time? Will all of my submissions be returned to me in one package? You may submit multiple submission forms to the same grading company in one shipping box. Your submissions will be returned separately. For that reason, each of your submissions is individually calculated for its return shipping and insurance. It is also worth noting that one of the things Voldy tried and does is combine shipping tiers into one shipment. HOWEVER, it was not without problems. Finally they settled on a policy where they do combine shipments - BUT all the books are graded at the same time, based on the SLOWEST tier submitted. So you might pay the equivalent of Express on a few books - but they get don't get graded (so you don't know the grades on those Express books) until all get done based on the slowest tier. Pay for fast, get slow. Just to save some coin on shipping. It is often not worth it. It's usually not worth it. They did this because it was a hassle and a liability to grade books and then return them to the vault to sit and wait.

I looked at my messages from last year. it is usually more like the middle/later in November before this gets started.

Three months? I recall five on moderns. But maybe your just younger than some of us. I might not be here three months from now....

I think "that" and much more. It is hard to get actual numbers - it's not like anyone has to report in as a comic book or coin collector. But it is common knowledge that the Coin collecting hobby is much, much larger than comic book collecting. The US Mint has millions of buyers every year. Perhaps easiest information to look at for our discussion is Heritage Auctions. They report their sales. In 2016, US Coins continued being their largest category with sales of 192 million. World and Ancient coins did 47 million and currency added another 29 million. That's 268 million. Meanwhile, Heritage recorded 43 million in comic books, animation and comic book art. And they note that they are the dominate player in this area - with more sales total than all other auction houses combined. So yeah. At least six times bigger. And maybe more.

This is the General discussion subsection of the largest comic book discussion chat board. Beckett moving into the graded comic book market is certainly BIG news. I'm sure the Certified Collectibles Group sees it as a big thing. There is a difference between trashing the host (CCS) and a discussion of the impact competition has had on graded and encapsulated comics and what Beckett's move might mean going forward. I probably have not read every single post. But what I have read has not sounded like trashing CGC nor promoting of a specific competitor. Was everyone just supposed to stick their heads in the sand and pretend like Beckett's move didn't happen? Or isn't important? Not discuss it so that we don't offend somebody somewhere sometime? The list itself had areas that were highly debatable. Debate is what happens when such is posted up on a chat board. As long as the debate doesn't devolve into name calling, it's supposed to be OK.

It's not such common knowledge. I only see this being the situation on eBay and FB forums. ComicLink, ComicConnect, MCS, Heritage -- If the Voldy slab looks the grade it sells in the range. One should keep in mind that GPA average is just that. On any given day, a CGC slabs sell below the average. You rest your case on a debate that is not a given, nor generally accepted. And for those of us that are willing to reholder books for a newly redesigned slab or that are dealers with dealer accounts, the idea - if we needed to - that we might have to reholder some books to get top price means almost nothing to us. And even that would be a business decision. A 15 % difference in price - even if it existed - still wouldn't be worth reholdering until you got to about $300 value. I send in 1500-2000 books a year to CGC. But i'm not a cheerleader, I'm a customer. Your comments are deep into cheer leader territory.

My own experience is that it depends a lot on what venues you sell at. On eBay at unreserved auctions you see Voldy often under perform. On Heritage? Not really.

I wouldn't want to eat a McDonald's every day. But I'm glad for the choice because I don't always have time or the money to eat at nicer, more expensive places. CHOICE is a BEAUTIFUL thing.

Interesting. But one should keep in mind there are different ways to analyze the same data. For instance Voldy has been in business for about 17% as long as CGC. Where PGX has been in business for nearly 80% as long as CGC What that might suggest with your sales figure is that Voldy is indeed slabbing a pretty good number of books. Maybe around 20-30% of CGC's volume. Because they have a 7% (eBay sales) market share when they have only been slabbing books for 17% as long. PGX's sales share might indeed reflect their share of the market, since they have been in the market almost as long as CGC. Also worth keeping in mind with just sales figures that sellers with non CGC slabbed books might be looking at other venues for selling.

All the above... Spot on.... Let's be honest here. CGC --- Today --- is a much, MUCH better company as a result of finally - after some 14 years -- having LEGITIMATE competition. And it is us - the consumer - that has really benefited. Modern tier rolled back to 1975? Graders notes now available to the submitter? An awesome new slab? TAT's better than they have been in a decade? Why did these things happen? Because of real competition. Other comic grading companies appearing someday was a fairly common discussion point on these boards over the years. It was the consensus opinion of members of this board for over a decade that CGC would never have competition. The hobby not big enough to support multiple companies. Well - the numbers speak for themselves. It took CGC seven years to grade 1 million comics. Fiver more years to grade two million. Less than four to grade three million. And only a couple of years to reach four million. The pace of grading comics continued to climb even when a legitimate competitor opened. It was inevitable that a major sports card grading company would take an interest in the market. And once they took an interest, it's just good business to buy the #2 company than it is to enter the market as #3 and start from the ground up. And for all of this - consumers - us - benefit. CGC loyal? That's great!! I send LOTS of books to CGC myself. But CGC loyalists have benefited from another legitimate grading company being in business. And if Beckett helps keep legitimate competition, everyone benefits. Everyone... Because nothing spurs innovation and good customer service like customers having a choice.

After further checking, I believe I was wrong about the possibility of the book getting a blue, universal label. It appears CGC gives a green label to any comic with a sticker, even if placed there by the manufacturer.

People's experiences seem to vary here..... I've purchased a couple of raw books from them over the years and the grades seemed close enough. The quote below is from the ComicLink site on selling. It appears from what is said below that consignors for both fixed price listings and auctions can retain possession of the books until they sell. A huge mistake I would think on auctions. What if the seller no longer has the book and it sells at auction? ....Anyway, if sellers can retain possession of books until they sell, ComicConnect cannot have graded those books. The ComicConnect Choice When you choose to sell on ComicConnect, you have complete control over how you sell your comics, and at what price to sell them. Our easy-to-use online tools enable you to upload items to sell at auction, or to sell them at the fixed price you specify. You can also evaluate bids from buyers, choosing whether or not to accept, or counter-offer if you prefer. Membership is free, and ComicConnect collects only a small commission on completed transactions. ComicConnect is non-exclusive, which means items you list at a fixed price may be withdrawn without penalty. At your option, you may also retain possession of your comic books until they sell.

Well, that is a bit of mystery.... I see another copy like this on eBay from tingles-comics. But the sticker is on backwards (the 7148601402 is on the right side) There are half a dozen newstand copies of the book on eBay, including a couple of CGC graded copies. The CGC graded newstand copies are all printed, not a label added. It's interesting to note that the UPC code number is not exactly the same between printed newstand UPC and sticker newstand UPC. The printed UPC code is 0 7148601402 7. The sticker UPC leaves off the 0 and the 7. On your pictured copy and the one on eBay. So it would appear to be a legitimate distribution thing. Perhaps a print run error and not enough copies were printed for the newstand market so some direct copies had a label printed and slapped on? Maybe someone else knows exactly what happened instead of just my theory based on copies for sale on eBay? Be interesting to see how CGC would grade such. Normally stickers get a green label. But if done at the printers or the distributor, I think it should be OK (blue label)

Those aren't the only two primary reasons companies get bought out. Another big reason is companies want to move into new markets, diversify their business I've been expecting one of the sports card grading companies to move into the graded comic market for a long time. At first the market looked to small for another successful comic grading company. But CGC has now graded over 4 million comics and the pace at which they reach the next million milestones has greatly accelerated. It appears based on press releases that the went from 3 to 4 million in about a year and half. It took seven years to reach one million, five years to reach two million, less than four to hit three million. It was in summer of 2016 when they said they had graded over three million - and now it's 4.1 million. Meanwhile, the first real competition to CGC entered the market four years ago and while they haven't released numbers, they have repeatedly said in the first year they reached levels of books graded they thought would take several years. Lots of businesses looking to move into a new field simply buy an already established business in that field. It's lot cheaper than trying to establish a brand new company. hie staff, build facilities and compete with the already established businesses. Big banks love to move into new territories - and the most favored path is to buy up small regional banks. When Microsoft wanted to make phones, they went and bought Nokia. When big computer and hardware manufactures wanted to move into services, they did so buy buying established services companies. HP bought EDS. Xerox bought ACS. Dell purchased Perot Systems. So I think what we see her is Beckett moving into a new, promising market for them and playing it smart buy purchasing the #2 company in that market. Rather than trying to establish a #3

Your chances of CPR'ing (Crack, Press, Resubmit) a 9.8 and getting a 9.9 or 10 are close to zero. Your odds are better spending the money on lottery tickets. Much better spending the money on scratch off tickets. The only times I've pressed 9.8's and resubmitted is when the book was cracked out for signatures. The purpose of the press was just to try to hold the 9.8 grade. But I've only done this a very few times. Because of the very real possibility when CPR'ing 9.8's of a downgrade after signing. So mostly with signatures I send in books that currently grade less than 9.8. Welcome to the boards

9.8's seldom rarely have notes, 9.6's often do not have notes and as others have mentioned occasionally even a bit lower grade books don't. There are actually two sides to this discussion. The competition down the street always has notes, including 9.8's. What's the downside? I've seen many times and experienced it once in person where Voldy's high grade books don't pull the same price. Because there are grading notes listing several (tiny) flaws. Where CGC has none. So buyers look at the grading notes and think "is that really a 9.8? Look at all those flaws". I really don't see the need for grading notes on 9.8. The book is close to perfect. Since 9.9's and 10's are very rare with most books having no copies graded that high, 9.8 actually represents perfect for all practical purposes. Your 9.8's were your feedback. You sent in perfect books

My thinking is these books would have sold for far, far more if they were universal, unrestored blue label.

Awesome post Shadroch A part of me feels like there must be some logic flaw here, but damn if I can find it. It's also not without precedent in other hobbies. How many sports cards have been sold with a tiny piece of a game worn jersey? Same concept. One rich collector can own the entire jersey. But many more average collectors can own a small piece of that jersey. One of the things I have always liked about comic book collecting is that it is - for the most part - a very "democratic" hobby. Sure.... rich collectors get to own the very best books. But even rich collectors recognize the inherent appeal and collectibility of a lot of inexpensive books.

It's not hard to tell. It's rare to find a cover or interior page where the staples line up exactly the same as the rest of the book that is missing such. When marrying a cover or interior page, there are typically two choices. line the edges of the page up - and end up with the married page have extra staple holes. Or line up the staple holes - and have the married page(s) stick out somewhere (top, bottom, sides) like a sore thumb In the book you picture above, either the cover had been trimmed OR the cover wasn't original to the book. Because it doesn't fit. Not close.

Pressing gets a Universal label. Cleaning with solvents gets a conserved label. Clearly the two are not the same. And the case for one leading to another seems weak. Right now it appears to me the conserved label is viewed - by the market - as largely the same as restored. That may change in a decade or two. But conserved is never going to be worth the same $$ as universal. IMHO, the comic hobby would be well served to be more accepting of conservation and even restoration. For instance consider that vintage comic books are printed on inherently unstable, acidic newsprint. CGC makes a "deal" of using Micro chamber paper to help mitigate the natural decay and out-gassing of newsprint. But in the library science field, MCP is only used to eliminate odors, not help paper survive longer. The Gold Standard in library science for deacidification and lengthening the lifespan of paper is immersion of the paper in a neutralizing, buffered bath of chemicals. Or using a liquid spray. That would earn a conserved label from CGC. Undesirable. But without such treatments vintage (newsprint) comics stored in even near ideal conditions are going to become brittle - crumble to dust - in a few hundred years. Give or take a few decades. Pressing - done correctly - isn't a problem. It doesn't damage a comic nor accelerate it's aging. The Conserved label - for treatments to a book that help it maintain it's structural integrity and longevity - isn't a problem. The problem is how some in the hobby view such. The hobby is basically sticking it's head in the sand about these issues. Kicking the can down the road, allowing future generations to deal with it. IMHO...

What you describe is EXACTLY why professional grading and encapsulation of comic books exists. You have spent thousands of dollars on raw key issues purchased on eBay only to find out they have had restoration. Ask yourself. In this current market, why wouldn't a seller get copies of Hulk 181, ASM 50 and FF 45 graded before offering for sale? The answer for a private collector selling their collection is they might not realize the advantages/benefits professional grading offers. They might need the $$ faster and not want to wait, not realize those books professionally graded and encapsulated sell for more money. More than the cost of grading. But for a "dealer" selling on eBay every week - they are leaving money on the table not slabbing such books. UNLESS the books have problems. Color touch, trimming - or just over graded. The listings and the terminology used are deliberately ambiguous and should raise flags. Super high grade and near perfect are not grades. The are adjectives and hawking. If you are going to buy expensive books on eBay you should consider two changes. !) Buy only professionally graded books 2) Buy raw only from sellers that have a long return period AND immediately send your purchases in for professional grading. This way you know - within the return period - if the books have issues. Welcome to the boards

Cleaning of a book IMHO opinion is conservation, not restoration. The new label more accurately reflects the books grade and status. We don't have a clear picture - yet - as to if the collector market will value conserved books higher than restored. But there is a difference and I'm glad CGC has the conserved label

You may never know where your 50 copies ended up... I have always thought Dazzler a historic comic. Lots of cool stuff surrounding it. Marvel's first direct distribution comic --- sold only to comic shops, not sent out for normal retail distribution. Dazzler was a collaborative effort between Marvel, Casablanca records and Filmworks. The idea was that Marvel would develop the comic book character, Casablanca Records would find a singer and Filmworks would make a movie. Bo Derek was who Filmworks hoped to cast in the movie. Knowing that, the resemblance is obvious. Casablanca pulled out and the deal collapsed. Marvel had already introduced the character in the X-Men. Fan reception was positive and Marvel moved on with the solo series. Jim Shooter had written a movie -script and this was turned into "Dazzler the Movie" Graphic novel. Someday Dazzler will appear in the X-Men movies. You'll wish you had your 50 copies back

All of the big Silver age keys have had big run ups in price the past five years. Including AF 15, which has done better than most. I think it very, very unlikely we will see a "correction" or drop in the price of AF 15. A period of time where the price doesn't increase is possible, but IMHO unlikely. In 2011, the average sales price of a CGC graded AF 15 was about $7500-$8000. Now it's $26,000. AF 15 has become the book every serious collector must have. Truly the Action 1/Detective 27 of the Silver age. As far as advice on acquiring one, I have two general areas of advice: 1) Buy a copy at auction, unless you can negotiate a fair price with say a local seller or comic book store. Everyone's BIN now prices are overly optimistic. They want next year - or two years from now - prices. A no reserve auction will most likely represent CURRENT market value. 2) A common phenomenon with key books is that the lower grade price spreads become very compressed. People on a budget are just buying based on what they can afford. So in the case of AF 15, there isn't all that much price difference between .5 and 2.0 and there isn't much price difference between 2.5 and 3.5. You might as well save up your money and look for a 3.5, since a 2.5 will end up costing you almost the same amount of $$ Welcome to the boards...

Read what Mschmidt above.... CGC specifically has you check off "use my own SELF INSURED UPS/FedEX account" If you use your own FedEx or UPS account to have CGC return ship, the package is insured for $100. No matter what books, no matter what declared value. The expectation by CGC and UPS/FedEx is that you will have YOUR OWN PRIVATE SHIPPING INSURANCE as well as your own private shipping account. If you have your collection insured, you might have shipping insurance. If you have your collection insured and you DO NOT have private shipping insurance for your collectibles, you might be able to add it to the policy for a modest amount of $$. If you don't send very many books in every year, private shipping insurance probably is not worth it. But if you send in hundreds of books a year a private shipping insurance will pay for itself. Also to keep in mind is that private shipping insurance has terms/requirements and limits to be aware of. My private shipping insurance through collectinsure.com has a maximum claim limit of $5000 when shipped FedEx or UPS. With a $200 deductible. So if you have a box of 25 comics coming back to you from CGC worth $10,000, you are $5,000 underinsured plus $100 left on the deductible. Private insurance can be good for many - but it's not for every person or every shipment. The Gold Standard for maximum protection, insurance and safety in shipping is USPS Registered Mail. Which is CGC's default shipping service.