phampton1737

Hey there: Your mention of Stan Lee's long-time wife jogged a memory that's kind of fun. A couple of years ago I was selling a copy of Amazing Fantasy #13 on eBay, and just kind of giving it a careful look-over for the listing. Meanwhile, I'd just been reading one or the other of the "Real Marvel Story" /"Behind the Scenes at..." kind of books (mainly wanting to better understand exactly how Kirby & Lee created together), and along the way had read that his wife Joan's maiden name had been "Boocock." Seriously. : ) So I got a kick out of spotting on the "letters page" of that issue a letter from a "Joan Boocock," of England. Which I thought was kind of cool, because it made me realize that although in time the offices were flooded with fan mail, it hadn't always been so. Thanks for the smile.

Thank you, skypinkblu. I understand and appreciate your point.

Now I see that the Post has been (mostly) replaced. That's a positive move. I want to say, first, that if the decision was made by an individual volunteer, I hope that he or she will accept my sincere apologies. If permitted I would withdraw that portion of my stinging rebuke, and tell you that "I understand." It has never been my intention to add to anyone's burden, and it has always pissed me off, the way the folks available are the ones who take the grief, while the real miscreants actually responsible for whatever people are upset about, are NEVER on the scene. That aside, I will try to communicate more effectively in the future to help this Forum, in a positive spirit and however I can. I am not "anti CGC" as much as I am, "a lover of comic books." My beef with the former arises only when the two conflict. I look forward to positive and mutually beneficial dialogue, and nothing different. Just one guy here, with one voice. If you feel I came on strong, that's your right and I respect that. I might ask only that you please bear with me. My intentions are good. And I am among the biggest believers out there in this Forum, and its potential.

Ummm... that faint whisper you hear might be my voice, somehow miraculously reaching you from the CGC Gulag. ”CENSORED.” Well, that‘s interesting; it appears that without even half trying I’ve stumbled up against the outer limits of expression acceptable in this Forum. Always useful information regarding any chat forum, and (I suppose especially these days) one corporate-sponsored in an era in which the acquisitive lust of the corporate sector extends not only to the contents of our wallets, alone. Listen, CGC people: BeforeYouHangUpOonMeAgain, (he squeezed in breathlessly, as if paranoid that he might be suddenly cut off and left “dangling”on the line) please hear me out. I am here neither to inflame, nor attack. I can see how certain portions of my message might have offended your corporate personhood, as long as I’m indulging in that fiction, but please allow me to point out that it was not YOU whom I was addressing, thank you very much. I was under the impression this was an open forum available for the robust and diverse sharing of ideas between people, and will proceed by continuing to treat it as such. That being said, and to allay your possible concerns, I will refrain from further engaging in direct obscenity in any direct reference to the Corporation, even if I belive such expression fully and richly justified. Last night I wrote in a completely positive spirit (even if a bit unorthodox in my expression) precisely because I do appreciate and value this Forum. I was prompted to participate because I perceived a series of hurtful divisions growing amongst its participants that I felt might not be completely necessary, were they addressed directly. I took the time and applied my energy to comment for two principal reasons. First, because my love of comic books and passion for comic art runs deeper than I feel any need to explain, and second, because it is my personal belief that the People of this Forum are a unique and critically important pool of talent, on several levels, and a live-wire, real time collective resource, second to none. I do not appreciate being censored. I will post this to see whether my voice will be tolerated, because I dislike wasting my time. I offer a promise of positive contribution, which in all candor may at times involve criticism or critique. But I am not of the kind to attack or to criticize, just because. That is not my inclination, at all. Life is too short. Yet I will share my personal view that the CGC has not heard nearly enough effective criticism, and a posterior so well kissed for so long lacks real incentive to take any action other than remain in place and continue to fatten, shifting its considerable bulk only occasionally as required to receive another obeisant smooch. But look: I am no fool, and it’s quite evident that the CGC is part of the game (unless it continues to shoot itself in the foot with improvident action, or otherwise act in a foolish manner.) Believe it or not, I am an extremely constructive individual and am not here to “burn the house down,” or even make a spectacle out of myself. (Whomever chose to push the “Censor”/Bleep button put me in that position. It might be best to advise that person, and/or his /her supervisors (in a spirit of full respect) that I am not the kind of person you necessarily want to see riled up. And leave it at that.) Back to my colleagues on the Forum: like many of you, I have a “day job" (sadly) not involving comic books, and (like many more) sell on eBay (and otherwise) fine comic books at fair prices, each backed with a full and unconditional guarantee of satisfaction. My point: I share many of the passions, affinities, interests and concerns of the other participants of this forum, and have no intention or agenda outside of meaningful contribution. I hope that I will be allowed that privilege.. I’ll check in to see if this post has vanished by tomorrow. If not, I will post an edited and more measured version of the “Post that Was." Thank you, folks.

Hey Folks: First, wanted to say Thanks for the kind comments. Brian, while I agree with you that Strange Worlds #1 is an important and key book, I don't share your conclusion. That was an anthology series. My whole point was that Rawhide Kid #17 is Kirby and Lee's first conscious joint venture on a book's featured title character, opening up potential for plot and/or character development on an indefinite basis, and fostering/ inviting reader participation in that ongoing process. The first, but not the last. And while we still have the Hulk, Spidey, the FF and the rest, all of the anthology titles-- Strange Tales, TOS, JIM, TTA, etc.-- have all (quite sadly, and alas!) gone on to take their well-earned place in that Eternal and Unending Tale of Glory in the Sky. For better or for worse, they live on today only in our memory. Thank you--

[font:Georgia][font:Georgia]Alas I am not yet a member, but am a definite "wanna be!" And will be, because I've got my eye on this one, in a big way. So I hoped you wouldn’t mind if I “dropped in!” Actually, I have fallen in love with the Kirby western titles, and will shortly have a couple of nice ones up for sale on eBay. But I am hanging on to most of them, for now... The comments have been most enlightening. The analogy to Amazing Fantasy #15 is most definitely one that "grabs you,"but as has been commented, not exactly on point. But before tossing that comparison aside,there is some gold to be mined there. The two books do share a powerful and highly unique link in all of Marveldom. If the story of Marvel is that of Stan Lee and his artists (or vice versa!), Rawhide Kid #17 is THE important book with respect to Jack Kirby, and Amazing Fantasy #15 is the same for Steve Ditko. And an excellent argument can be made, if the huge dollar value and celebrity status of AF #15 can be momentarily set aside (admittedly no easy task!), that the importance of RK #17 far exceeds that of AF #15, itself undeniably a book of first importance. Here’s the thing: the western title represents the first-time EVER/ conscious collaboration/ creative partnership between Kirby and Lee on a comic book character seen as worthy of having an ongoing storyline. He was their first "book-length" storytelling joint venture. And bear in mind, the publication date here is July 1960. The very first Marvel superheroes-- the Fantastic Four-- would not even show up until November 1961-- more than a year and three months later. The importance of FF #1 is both obvious and clearly recognized, but the real power of the earlier book almost always missed completely. And it’s not just the prior date that makes it important: it’s the experience of creative collaboration the book yielded, starting with this title. Think about it: if Lee and Kirby had not had the experience of actively collaborating on this title, had the opportunity to “feel out” the give and take, etc. under less pressure and visibility, it’s quite likely that they could never have just started right up with the Fantastic Four as they did. Quite arguably, this was THE cornerstone book for all that was to follow, and as such may be one of the most undervalued and generally slighted Marvel titles in existence. None of which is meant to take one bit away from the incredible achievement that was AF #15. But: that book was published in August 1962, the same month as JIM #83, and both new characters followed the FF, the Hulk, and (arguably) the Ant-Man. Though it is of huge importance as the first such collaboration between Lee and Ditko, Lee was by that time much more experienced in the process of working with/ getting the most from, his artists, as a result of his work up to that point. So, like the FF before it, the book followed Rawhide Kid #17 not only chronologically, but also flowed from the same source in the river of the creative process that gave it birth and kept it alive. One final note: it is interesting and suitable that "the King's" art graced the cover of Spider-Man’s first appearance. It is true that the Ditko covers soon to follow were some of the most outstanding/ innovative and generally magnificent of any before or (probably) since. But going back to the comics market of that time, the power of Jack Kirby's covers to sell comic books, in a HUGE way, cannot be denied. I’m not trying to compare them, or take away Ditko’s crown, so much as to better understand how it all came to pass. And that, my friends, is my take on the “gold” to be found in this old Marvel western title. Thanks for listening. [/font] [/font]

Just wanted to say Thanks for the great resource. I wasn't aware of some of them, and so really appreciate your having taken the time to share. I'll look forward to seeing what others might have to post. I seem to wind up using (for the most part) mainly eBay, the group of dealers that come up in http://www.comicseeker.com/ (several of whom are included in your list), and also Greg at http://www.gregreececomics.com/. Great guy.