AlexanderM

This seems to still be there:

 

http://www.heronext.com/listings

 

I thought those prices were long gone...

 

42% over what the last one went for 4 months ago and you think the price is low? And the one that sold 4 months ago was an all time high? I think you have unreasonable expectations on the growth rate of comics.

For some reason I thought it was a 4.0. Must have changed the book since I was looking at the site 15 minutes ago

But looking at the FMV prices that price doesn't seem to be buying any 3.5, so 3.0 is probably the best possible for that price. But you are still right of course.

This seems to still be there:

http://www.heronext.com/listings

I thought those prices were long gone...

del

If you played with a group of kids when you were a kid...

Played all kinds of games and the kids there changed a bit but more or less the same came often

Then on the 19th September you sit down and say "guys, we play so well together - I think we should form the Incredible Demons!" The other cheer and from that day forth those exact four play together as the incredible demons...

When did the Incredible Demons come to be? Was it 19th September... or do you want to count that they knew each other beforehand?

Thanks Mongkorn! And that's a sweet white pager you have there!

Your OW is real rare too. I haven't done the stats but from having followed this books for many years my impression is that below 5% are OW or better. And of those surely less than 1% are W.

I don't know why BB28 in particular is almost always cream or tanned. Having said that a cream BB28 is still great!

Thanks Boba for showing me the way!

 

Humble request for club entry please

 

Thanks to a fellow boardie!

 

W??

Wow

White BB28s are almost impoosible to find.

My first thought was 3.5, but I knew it was over-graded so I immidiately bumped it up to 4.0-4.5.

But...... wow!

That is crazy.

I would avoid this book and sell everything I had as quickly as possible. For "hot" books this would be the last one I would buy. Not that I hate Deadpool, but just because there are so darn many of em.

 

I would much rather put $750 (a 9.8 price) into a Daredevil 1 in around 4.0 or an Action Comics 242 in around 4.5.

I'm not sure I would do that.

AC242 doesn't really have much up-side I can see... Braniac is a well-known villain and I don't think that will change much either way. Great book and has been for a while.. I don't see while demand for it will go up a lot.

DD1... well, there is the defenders... but Daredevil has had his Hollywood exposure and at the end of the day he doesn't really catch the imagination of movie-goers. He is a bit of a soft super-hero in that sense.. I like him, but well... he is just Daredevil.

Deadpool on the other hand... he may be the most popular super-hero in all of comics since Wolverine!! Nothing soft there! He was the main attraction in the latest Marvel Computergame.. a record breaking game made in collaboration with Lego.. and played by millions of kids that do not read comics yet... thus spreading the word and introducing them tio Deadpool.

If we take THE most popular character of each period:

Superman-Spiderman-Wolverine-Deadpool.... puts Deadpool in very good company...!!

Nothing soft or average about that.

Like most other Marvel issues from the same age supply is plentiful. But IH181 was another book that people did not think could sustain value because of large supply.. but that is going just fine. I actually think demand for Deadpool is here to stay and the book will not again get cheaper than it is now (baring slight ups and downs).

Opinions about the future.. we will have to wait and see...

As far as I know BB28 has two different color schemes - one more greyish and one more bluish.

GPA is littered with shilled ebay auctions when it comes to this book and MP7. The last two non shilled sales were on pedigree for 2300 and comic link for 2500. Neither of which report to GPA.

 

-J.

Jay, I like that someone goes after shilled books. However, it would look good if you sometimes also went after some of the best books you yourself own. Don't you think so?

I had to step up to the plate to obtain this copy, courtesy of Bedrock City.

 

My old copy! Congrats!

WOW!

I'm pretty strictly a GA and SA collector. However, when I look at newer books nm98 is without a doubt the most attractive book of them all.

Just two cents from a guy who probably has never been to the copper forum before.

Any thoughts where this'll end up?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331357949549?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

Was wondering where my old copy ended up.

 

Right around $6100 with 4 hours to go. Such a great looking copy...would love to have it for my personal collection.

 

And double the Avengers #1 of the same grade and PQ by the same seller.

In terms of time period, history, and scarcity, BB28 should be compared price-wise to FF rather than Avengers imo.

I think all hahas been said and done in this thread. It is quite clear 60 is the first appearance, and 54 is the origin.

Logically and chronologically the origin or backdrop for the formation of a team happens before the formation. However, in comics we are used to them only telling us "why" these guys formed a group after we are introduced to the group.

This is one of the rare cases where we see the origin/the why...before the group is formed.

In my oppinion ST110 is still cheap.

Let make a prediction. What will the GPA be of a 4.0 1 month after the movie premiere in China (just to fix a point in time)? Current GPA is $1.329 with last sale of $1.550.

My prediction is $3.300.

Someone made a vote....what was the result?

 

And the fact is, if you pick up and read BB54, you will see three teen-age superheroes fight crime together. They don't intend to team up, someone else brings them together without each other's knowledge.

 

So? That's the plot of Avengers 1.

 

 

None of them decides they want to keep working together. No one SAYS they want to or will keep working together. No one even discusses the concept of forming any super-team, let alone with the others.

 

Not true. A subplot is Kid Flash and Aqualad viewing Robin as not a useful contributor. By the end of the story they have learned his value and the value of teamwork. A difference between Avengers 1 and BB 54, is that in Avengers 1 the heroes have a stilted on camera discussion where they say "Hey, let's form a team!" In BB 1, the announcement of the team is made instead in the text box where it announces the "new team" of DC superheroes. That's a distinction without a difference.

 

And if you read BB60, you WILL see the Teen Titans, and you will learn that Robin set up the group "after" the events of BB54. Which means not in BB54.

 

Again this same old misrepresentation. Robin does not say the team was formed "after the events of BB 54." He says it was set up after the adventure of Hatton Corners. That adventure ends on camera in BB 54. And in the last panel of that story, after the adventure is over and the villain defeated, DC announces a "new team."

 

Fans at the time recognized a new team had been formed according to TT 1. Not sure how you can ignore this. In fact, they clamored for Wonder Girl to be added to the new team. And DC responded to those requests. BB 60 was a continuation of the story started in BB 54, and it is notable for adding a new member to the existing team. That's how DC has treated BB 54 since the outset. That's what is said in BB 60 and in TT 1. To claim otherwise is dishonest, especially since DC is very clear on this right now.

 

Do you doubt that the Avengers is a formal team, rather than just a cross-over/team up like there has been so many of in MArvel and DC?

Hint: It is called "Avengers #1".

...

BB54 on the other hand is just a cross-over of three teens.

When that was successful the 4 teens were implemented as a formal team in BB60.

Duck. You are arguing the world is flat in the face of evidence showing it is round. And yiour best argument is.."many other people thought it was flat too!!".

It would be nice if you could take that in and think about it rather than just being stubborn no matter what.

The market agreed for a long time that Hulk 271 was the first appearance of the Racoon. The market agreed that company X was worth Y on Wall Street... right until it did not.

The market continuously learns, and truth will prevail in the end.

Sfcityduck loves the Teen Titans so much he owns zero copies of either book. If you love the Titans so much why don't you fire in on a 54 tomorrow, Duck? Show a little conviction versus 100 posts of slander, propaganda and puffery. Or maybe this little classic is holding you back?

 

 

Clear as day.

 

It's just that if the team who pre-dated Wonder Girl was the Teen Titans I have yet to see a single panel in 54 acknowledging this. The panel does not exist. You have a nice well written origin story, but the first Teen Titans it is not.

 

Is there a panel in TTA 27 acknowledging that Hank Pym is Ant-Man?

 

This is a dumb argument that ignores that BB 54 introduces a team that was named the Teen Titans in its second appearance. DC made this clear as early as TT 1 and still says so today.

In BB54 they were just 3 guys teaming up against an enemy. That does not make it a team in the sense of JLA, Avengers etc.

Batman and Superman have frequently "teamed up" since Superman 76, but do you think anyone who thinks about the teams in comics think of that as an actual team like JLA, Avengers, X-men, Defenders, Invaders, Fantastic Four and so on and on. No, of course not. Sure they team up and called themselves a team in some of those issues, but they were not a formal team.

The actual formal team was founded/introduced/appeared by 4 teens in BB60. BB54 tells part of the back-story why they decided to form that team.

I'm on record here numerous times with my thoughts on this. Nothing anyone has said has changed my position that BB54 is the first appearance and origin of the Teen Titans. If someone wants to post something new I'll consider it. It's all really just a difference of opinions, and you know what they say about opinions...

 

I would suggest new posters read the entire thread before contributing, as many rehash or restate the same worn out arguments over and over again without shedding any new light on the debate. It's a good read with many interesting points made on both sides.

 

But no one has delivered a definitive statement on either side, so I'll continue to be on the BB54 wagon, as it is the current and currently correct title for Teen Titans first appearance and origin.

 

(Picks up mic and carefully places it back in the stand).

Yeah, not much chance you will change your mind even if Robin came to the end of your bed this night and tells you his Teen Titans have come to save you from your denial. Even if he told you that the Teen Titans are 4 teens, and Wonder Woman is not in BB54 - so logically.... Even if he told you that the editor in Teen Titans #1 said that Teen Titans was only formed after they saw how successful the cross-over of three teen heroes was in BB54. Even if.. and so on.

Looking at your signature with that BB54 CGC 7.5 it's understandable that you might not change your mind. Btw. love those 6 JLA's in your sig!

isn't this argument pretty close to Heroes for Hire?

 

they meet and fight in Power Man 48, work together in 49, and officially become a team in 50, and officially name the team "Heroes for Hire" in 54?

 

I think most people accept 54 as the 1st Heroes for Hire.

 

I think there's three sides to this Teen Titans argument.

 

Side 1: It should be treated the same as Heroes for Hire, they worked together previously, but didn't become 'official' until BB60.

 

Side 2: The first time you and your buddies got together in your garage for a jam session, even though you didn't plan to start a band, and didn't have a name, and didn't have a hot lead singer girl, was the TRUE start of your band. You had so much fun, that a month later you added a lead singer and chose a name. But that first time, that was the first appearance of "insert band name here"

 

Side 3: I prefer Side 2, but Side 1 probably makes more sense from a technical, logical sense, BUT the market and DC have already decided its BB54, and I don't think they'll change their mind. At minimum its the "origin of Teen Titans", and an integral part of the history. I know I personally would want to know about the first time my favorite band got together in a garage.

 

Bottom Line, IF you're a true fan, get both. If you're a collector, and can afford a high grade copy of one, you can probably afford a high grade copy of both. If you're looking to FLIP, BB60 probably has more potential (and risk) because its currently not viewed as the 1st app by the market. If you want something with more certainty, go for BB54.

 

And in general, we should probably accept that even with seemingly well reasoned logic we can't always change someone else's mind.

 

This is a good post.

I do agree that either way both are important.

From a logial point of view BB60 is the first appearance, but BB59 tells much of the back story of why they formed. So there are strong arguments why a true collector would want both.

I would change the labels to:

 

BB53: "first mention of robin, aqualad, and kid flash being friends"

 

BB54: "first team-up of robin, aqualad, and kid flash"

 

BB60: "first appearance of the teen titans founded by robin, aqualad, kid flash, and wonder girl".

 

Then you would be ignoring the publishing history, the actual storyline, and decades of opposing opinion... to what end?

I'm ignoring comics history? Did you even see the picture from Teen Titans posted above by Ferdelance?

It is clear that the rumour spread for several years that BB54 was the first appearance. Just like Hulk 271 is the first Racoon. Misinformation easily spreads. But if you go by what actually happened that says BB60.

Misinformation begat misinformation.

Two things should be enough (besides DC publishing in comics clearly that 60 WAS the first appearance etc.):

 

If BB60 was never published.... no-one would know the Teen Titans. The Teen Titans would not exist!

 

Simply because they were founded between 54 and 60 with "Wonder Girl as original founding member".

 

 

If 54 was never published, 60 would not have been published.

 

That's a 'maybe'.

 

It is, on the other hand, save to say that BB54 alone is NOT enough to call anything Teen Titans.

 

60... now that IS enough to introduce the Teen Titans - even if 54 never existed. Now - they might or might not have printed 60....without 54, but that is speculation.

 

Do you actually know the publishing history of these books??? Read the excerpt from TT#1 above that directly links the two books together. 54 begat 60.

I have both. You tend to get very personal when discussing this. I think you should try to keep that in check. Thanks.

You can 'begat' from here till eternity... that argument leads nowhere because some earlier issue very often begat another. BB53 begat BB54....

It is extremely clear that DC got the idea to do a cross-over in BB54. They did not make them a team but more a cross-over like Superman 76. When they saw the huge success, they made them an actual team in BB60 with wonder girl (to appeal to girls too) with teen team.