shane1956

I’m still holding out . I’ve made recent bids on a couple of 9.4s on Heritage. Both sold for around 15k . I just missed one by $500. Meanwhile Metropolis comics ignores recent sales and wants thousands more for both their 9.2 and 9,4 .

Well, it is a comic book. It was intended to be “juvenile” and the original intended audience was not an adult collector in 2022. Honestly, most of the major keys are the same. It’s not really surprising.

Hello everyone, long story short I sold off my collection about 5 years ago and will be getting back in. I'm considering this copy of Hulk 181 in 9.2. I'm wondering what your honest comments are as it relates to the "tight" wrap on this book. You can see that the "2" in the "25" is pulled to the back cover. What do you think?

As a comic book collector I can understand why at first glance the rapidly high prices and spike in interest might seem puzzling . Why would someone pay thousands for a PSA 10 1990 (mass produced) comic card when you could simply buy more graded books ? Graded books after all are the “ real thing “ . The “original source “ . However I’d point out a few things : 1) There is a misguided tendency to view these sales and the recent spike in interest through the wrong lens. . Many of us are traditional comic book collectors . We liked the cards, even collected them but maybe we aren’t exactly card collectors. The reality is believe it or not there is actually a healthy percentage of collectors out there who like PSA 10 cards of Marvel characters. There is a healthy percentage of card hobbyists who could care less if they ever own a graded comic book. They are card collectors. Cards matter to them and so do superheroes but not comic books. 2) A PSA 10 is well a PSA 10. These are not easy to obtain even on mass produced sets . Anyone who has been following along knows that 1990 Marvel Universe Cards have about a 75 to 80 percent chance of being off center to some degree . Many right out of the pack are off to the junk pile with zero hope of ever getting a 10 gem mint grade . There is an element of “ rarity” built into collecting these cards . Like it or not the reality is people pay major dollars for PSA 10 cards . They do it in everything from Michael Jordan , Hulk Hogan , Pokémon , Garbage Pail kids. Why not Spiderman ? Spiderman is after all probably the most recognized of them all . I’ll add that Marvel Masterpieces was not produced at 80 million . The box is marked 350,000. Yes, still very high but if you do the research many will be off center and as a result 10s won’t be easy . A piece of information when looking at the power of card collectors, 1987 fleer which has the Jordan rookie has a print run of 2 million . We all know that didn’t hold back a Jordan PSA 10 from being worth $750,000 when it was 30 K 18 months ago . People collect cards . Some of these people collect superheroes in the card format . I’m not saying cosmic Spiderman from 1990 Marvel Universe Cards is the equivalent of a Michael Jordan rookie but you can certainly understand why a PSA 10 can sell all day in the multiple of thousands. I agree these cards have shot up in value very fast . However , there is a legitimacy to the sales . Personally I wouldn’t trade my 1990 Cosmic Spiderman PSA 10 for a NM #98 9.8. Some collectors might but some like me wouldn’t. I’d rather have certain PSA 10 comic cards. Don’t be quick to dismiss what is happening here and let’s educate ourselves by looking at it from a non comic book collectors viewpoint .

I figure there must be others out there who are as passionate about the 1996 Marvel Masterpiece set as I am . It truly is the king of all Marvel card sets . Released at height of the mid 90s comic crash; the artwork of Boris & Bell harkens back to the timeless style of the legendary Frank Frazetta . It’s a personal favourite and building a complete set in near mint / mint grade can be a bit of a challenge . There are so many interesting facts about this set which make it worthy of its own thread . Let’s go CGC . Time to get the grading and conversation started !

Hello CGC friends, it's been a while. I'll start by saying I took a two year leave of absence into the vintage toy market. I've started to do some online research and wondering your various opinions. What is the reasonable price of admission for a Blue Lable AF 15 5.0. Trying to get a sense through discussion. It's been a while. Thanks

No problem Roy. We Canadians are much too polite to pick on each other. Obviously I have zero way of knowing what the future holds. Who knows the bottom may drop out of this entire thing. I guess I just get a little excited when the books I bought for personal enjoyment seem to end up in such high demand. Especially the ones I wanted so bad and felt I over paid for about 8 months ago. On a side note, I never did get a copy of Dare Devil #7 in 9.2 .I remember sending you e-mails in the middle of a Jury trial I was doing a few years back hoping you had one on hand. It drives me crazy that it's the lone 9.0 in my collection of 9.2's .

For the record. I was just offered $7300 U.S for my FF #48 9.2 and declined. The value and price is real people. I could care less about what Disney does with SS or the Fantastic Four. I'm not a dealer , flipper, or speculator either. The price is real folks . It's certainly not going down.

The glass is UV protected and the book is in a man cave with no windows. I see it as a piece of artwork worth putting on display.

After watching various You Tube clips and interviews based around Vincent Zurzolo and Stephen Fisher of Metropolis comics I started pondering a few things . I'll start by saying both are without a doubt experts in this field and clearly very successful in what they do . In one video from about 3 years ago , Zurzolo makes a comment to the effect that we have only entered the "adolescent phase" of comic book values . He's very convincing and his opinion is well presented in interview after interview. That said , I started to ponder the question below. Put aside for a moment the fact that there are new finds. Here the big vintage comic dealers buy up these raw collections at a steep discount , have them graded , and sell at a nice profit margin. My query is on the following area .A large part of the business of major vintage dealers seems to be that they acquire an already graded CGC book from a motivated seller , flip it to the next motivated buyer at a profit , re-acquire it or a similar example , mark it up , and sell it. The mark up is on the expectation that the next buyer will pay more for the same product . Rinse and repeat. Take Amazing Fantasy 15 as an obvious example. Many if not the majority of books we have seen sold for years now are dealer "rinse and repeats". This entire model seems to be held up on the fundamental expectation the these key books will keep going higher and higher or by extending on Mr. Zurzolo's comment until they reach adulthood so to speak. Clearly , those who deal in vintage comics as a primary source of income or as a way to supplement their income must recognize the obvious "rinse and repeat" aspect of what has been going on for years now. With so much time and finances invested into owning such a major business like Metropolis do these dealers ever get concerned that there is a ceiling to the same AF #15 5.0 being sold over and over again ? Higher and higher with each turn giving a bit more out of a perpetual return. I guess my questions are :1) How much juice can you squeeze out of the same lemon? 2) With so much invested in this business do you see a great deal of juice left in the lemon over the long term? 3) When do you see this adolescent phase reaching adulthood ? I don't have the answer ; i'm not sure anyone does. However, what do people think?

My copy after framing. (Not the greatest photo with the glare ) . I also agree that FF 48 is easily a top 20 Silver Age key.

On fire! It is a key book and has an epic cover. I'm happy I got mine before the recent run up.

Final price $7,200 for the 9.2. That's probably a new high mark.

"And when Wolverine finally goes away, the value of IH 181 will level off" . When Wolverine goes away it's safe to say that basically the entire Marvel Universe will be going as well. The character has been a main pillar of the comic book industry at least 30 plus years . Over that time the character has easily been one of the most iconic and well recognized of all the superhero genres . Outside that comment I see and agree with the point you were trying to make.

Another update. This book has been on fire! A 9.2 is up to $6000 U.S on EBAY with 10 hours remaining! I thought I was a bit crazy when I paid $4700 back in late March. At this rate this will be a 10k book in 9.2 at some point in the next 2 years. Prices keep going higher and higher. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fantastic-Four-48-cgc-9-2-1st-Silver-Surfer-Galactus-Stan-Lee-2-4-5-49-45-52/283070464971?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Just thought back to something I posted on the boards late September 2017 : "You never really know but by the way it's been going I can see 9.2's hitting $10,000 at some point." I'm convinced this will be the reality sooner rather than later. Mark it down, I'm saying it hits 10 K U.S no later than May 1, 2019. Who knows, but personally I would be betting heavy on that fact . Before the speculation comments come out I will say that when it comes to Wolverine , his popularity, and being a main pillar of the Marvel Universe there is no speculation when it comes to demand for this character and first appearance. Let's face it , even with the low census numbers and latest blockbuster movie Black Panther has been a fraction of Wolverine's popularity over the past 30 years. Given that fact and balancing of popularity vs census numbers I think if FF 52 9.2 is a 10K book , Hulk 181 9.2 is an obvious 10K book as well. Also, before the "bubble bursting" comments come out I say this ; if it bursts for Hulk 181 it's going to take the entire Bronze age down with it .Wolverine is the Bronze age king and collectors know this . It's not unreasonable that Hulk 181 should sit steadily at 4 X the value of B or C listers like Moon Knight . ( I like Moon Knight but really there is no comparison in overall exposure and recognition) . Comments and criticisms are welcome but get ready for the 10K reality.

It might be too easy to speculate that speculation is the reason for the price increase. Who exactly is speculating ? The money is out there and the buyers are out there. I really think it's that simple. I was fortunate enough that this week I was able to drop $5,000 on a vintage graded Masters of the Universe action figure. It was my very first purchase of a toy from my childhood. It might be my only one. I can tell you it had zero to do with speculating on future values or thinking of it as an "investment". There was no vintage toy speculation on my part. It was just a regular guy taking an interest in getting a piece of his childhood back . I was the high bidder in the auction which I'm sure was filled with traditional long standing He Man toy collectors. It was no doubt a new high for this particular item . People are willing to pay up to a certain point and I think it's that simple. I used my He Man example to illustrate that point. To get a part of that wolverine nostalgia people are willing to push the upper limits of what they are willing to spend. Sure there are dealers out there but it's safe to say there are more collectors than dealers. Sure there are some speculators out there but I can guarantee you that there are more collectors than speculators. Collectors are driving the prices. Perhaps we are seeing a shift in what we knew as the traditional collector. Unfortunately, those entering or some of those who may have always been around are willing to spend more. Vintage comic book collecting has far too many people willing to spend to blame this all on speculation ever time a value rises quickly. All of this is just my respectful opinion as well. As a lucky owner of a Hulk 181 in 9.2 I certainly wouldn't sell it for the highest price it just sold for. It's worth more to me than that. I also have a feeling there are a lot of others out there feeling just the same. It will hit it's price at some point but I doubt it's there yet.

In the past two weeks there have been two Ebay sales of Hulk 181 in 9.2 . The first $6200 U.S and the second $6400 U.S. Sure there may be some speculation but really Wolverine is a top 3 Marvel character . That's been the case for well over 20 years. Although this book isn't as rare as say and AF #15 it's a fair price to pay to get a top three character is such high demand. As I said before the money is there and people are able to spend it. I'm not surprised at all with the princes. In fact I would be surprised if it didn't continue to climb.

Fantastic Four 52 is significantly harder to get in 9.2 vs Hulk 181 in 9.2. However, aside from Black Panther's popularity in the past few years has there ever really been any comparison in the popularity of these characters? Wolverine vs Black Panther hasn't even been close. I'm convinced that long term if people will pay around $10,000 for a FF #52 they are going to pay it for a Hulk 181. Yes, I'm aware of the differences in census numbers but based on historic popularity of the character it's not even close. Let me know when, not if, Hulk 181 9.2 reaches $10,000 U.S. It's going to happen and people are certainly going to pay it. There are too many Wolverine/comic collectors with too much money not to pay that price at some point. I'm using 9.2 as the number given it's entry to "near mint" . Hulk 181 9.2 will reach $10,000. Not overnight but it will get there.

Respectfully,I made zero mention of a 1952 topps Mantle. Nor did I attempt to directly compare a comic , in this case Hulk 181 , to a particular card. Perhaps I might have got away from my intended point when I used the sports card example. I don't want to get into a sports card vs comic book debate as that really wasn't what I was trying to convey in the post. My point was simply that people who are passionate about their hobbies are willing to pay more on particular item than what we have traditionally seen being paid for certain key books such as Hulk 181 . Many who collect guitars for example think nothing of paying $12,000 for 2018 Fender custom shop stratocaster . It's what they enjoy , it's what they collect, it's not an investment. They don't worry about the bubbles or the potential rise and fall based on speculation or trends. There are many who have equal amounts of disposable income who are just as passionate about comics . They will ,when the time comes, think nothing of droppping $8000 or whatever the price of the day is on a Hulk 181 in say 9.2 or whatever the desired particular grade. After seeing what people pay for many things outside of the comic world rising prices are not really surprising. The point is the money is there , the passion is there, and these key books cost a lot less than what people pay when collecting many other things such as , cars, guitars, jewelry, etc. As a guy who is just as passionate about buying and collecting guitars , comics are in fact relatively and significantly "cheaper" by comparison ;hence I see them as having room to grow.

I know I'm just one single owner of a Hulk 181 9.2 , however if you offered me $8000 U.S right now for my copy I would respectfully decline. I wouldn't even consider it. That's even considering the potential conversion to the Canadian dollar. The long term importance and potential cost of replacing this book is not worth $8000 in 2018 to me. I'd be willing to guess that there are large number of others out there that are not flippers and have no need to sell. As long as that percentage is high this book is locked in for the foreseeable future. The reality is, as far as collectibles or hobbies go, this is a "small price" to pay for one of the crown jewels of a respective hobby. Really , outside Superman, Batman and Spiderman you have Wolverine. The cover of Hulk 181 is iconic, the character is iconic, etc. Another point I would raise is that fact that comics have a lot of room to go. I know what I pay to expand my guitar collection and my brother to build his vintage baseball card collection. Comics such as Hulk 181 in a grade of 9.2 are "cheap" by comparison. This hobby has a lot of catching up to do and will continue over the next few years. I'm saying this purely as a casual collector and not a seller.

Until I start seeing some actual evidence of these 10,000 or so FF 48's by way of a portion showing up on the census I'm calling nonsense. We've all heard the "stories" but not a single person has shown us a nice group photo of these mysterious "stacks". Simple logic would suggest that where there is money there is someone wanting to make it. If there were 10,000 copies out there I think a few more would have surfaced in CGC holders by now. Until then, the reality is this book is going to rise given it's importance. I paid $4600 U.S last month for my 9.2 copy. Would I pay it this week? Absolutely . Would I ever sell it for a penny less unless stuck with some unexpected circumstances? Not a chance. Friends , the market is set on this book. 9.2 and higher is $4500 and up at the moment. Good luck finding one of those other 10,000 copies . Let me know if you uncover big foot in the process. I would add that compared to the art world the prices paid for these books is insignificant. There are so many buyers with money who are willing to pay hard cash for key books these days that the age of getting keys in high grade at low prices are long gone. The hobby has evolved and has started to get credibility with outside collectors. People like myself exist . I view it as art. I display it as such.

Bob, what are your views on FF#48 in 9.2 and higher? Will the demand grow ? Is the Surfer now second chair to Black Panther and FF #52? Up until the Movie were they ever really close?

Just got another back . It's not the best photo. The glare I was getting from the camera makes the book look unclear. However, I thought I would share anyway.

Back from framing! Not the best photo but I'm posting it anyway. It's obviously more clear in person.