Sharkey

Two of the most notorious pre-hero JIMs:

Thanks! Glad you like it, and Return Kudos on the purchase and lightning fast payment! (thumbs u Also, Kudos to the following folks for recent purchases in the VCC and prior: adambraunart rarturo dickpontoon filter81 You guys ROCK!

I really didn't need to hear that story Dale, man, I love Swan's stuff, I just bought my first Swan page, and to think that a collector was buying them at $5 each and $25 for covers, makes me mental well, MORE mental than I already am..

I will donate to Paul for some of the prototyping costs. Seriously. So will I. I think the Limited Edition Greggy-9000 Toon Tumbler would be WAY worth the proto costs! (thumbs u Toro Good point. Flee, will the Greggy-9000 come with a plastic sushi restaurant playset?

I will donate to Paul for some of the prototyping costs. Seriously. So will I. I think the Limited Edition Greggy-9000 Toon Tumbler would be WAY worth the proto costs! (thumbs u

"That boy sure likes his naps" lol Instant Classic..... (thumbs u

Yeah, and in addition to the use of art as floor mats, giveaways etc (it just wasn't seen as something that had intrinsic value), I've heard stories that at some companies the original art was ordered to be destroyed so that the artists could not lay claim to the characters from a legal or copyright perspective. Returning art to the artist was not a common practice until artists began to demand it (no doubt because people began to realize its value), and in fact in the 1980s Kirby (and his estate) sued Marvel to get his art returned to him. Of course by that time, only a fraction of it was left to be returned.

A few of those books re-used artwork from the (interior) splash pages for the covers. Doc V owns such an example. Yeah, he's got the Gorgilla splash that apparently was also used for the cover. But the actual cover doesn't exist anywhere (not sure if it was a stat cover or what). The Amazing Adventures 5 is one of the other ones where the splash page was used for the cover, and that art also exists -- again though as a splash, not as a cover. There are only a few. But it begs the question of what really happened to all those pre-hero era covers.

These pages would cost MAJOR coin if you found them, good luck! Yes they would, but they'd be worth it. If anybody knows where any of these pages are, I'd appreciate a PM. Of course my true ghosts are the Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko pre-hero monster covers. But not a single of one of them seems to exist...

Oh some art definitely exists -- the splash pages and panel pages to many pre-hero issues are in the hands of dealers and collectors (I own some pre-hero art -- see my ComicArtFans gallery linked in my Sig). But oddly none of the pre-hero monster covers are known to exist. Not one. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Nobody seems to know what happened to them. There are plenty of theories: 1. They were thrown away. Remember Marvel/Atlas was in serious trouble at the time of the pre-hero monster genre and almost closed its doors. So the theory is that they tossed the art because they didn't have any place to store it, or it wasn't worth the cost to pay for storage. The odd thing about this is that so many complete stories of pre-hero monster original art exist. So if the complete stories are around, what happened to the covers? Why throw away the covers but keep the interiors? Some people have suggested that maybe they got damaged and were thrown away (a leak or flood at the warehouse where they were stored) but again it seems odd that only the covers are gone, not the interiors. 2. They were given away to people who came by the offices of Marvel. This is a common theory but if all the covers were given away, surely some of them would have popped up for sale or at least be in someone's collection who posts on ComicArtFans or other sites. 3. They were stolen from the Marvel storage facility and offices. This is another common theory. But lots of art that didn't get returned to Jack Kirby in the 1980s after his lawsuit has turned up on the market or in collections, so again it's odd that none of these pre-hero monster covers have turned up anywhere. If somebody has them, you'd think that someone else would know about it. Maybe some day they will turn up. After all, people used to think all the Timely art and old DC covers were destroyed and yet a couple of early Batman and Superman covers have turned up and so has some Timely art, so maybe there's still hope....

Oh, and anybody who spends 2 hours reading a pre-hero thread is A-OK in my book! (thumbs u Always good to have another pre-hero Marvel fan in da house!! I think I posted this a while back but it's another fave. It's just such an odd cover....

Not nearly enough.... That TOS 19 is a great book -- excellent monster plant cover! I looked at this thread for 2 hours last night and Rhino I know that you have at least 2 CGC copies so please sell me one! I sold both CGC copies a while ago in order to fund art purchases. They are probably the only books I regret selling. Favorite cover of all the pre-hero books. I still have a nice stash of goodies that I don't plan to sell, and at some point I'll find a nice copy of #8, but it's tough. One of the toughest in fact. It's very disheartening to think that the original art to all these pre-hero books doesn't exist. Of course there are some who say it's out there but was stolen from the Marvel offices (along with many other key Silver Age covers). If that rumor is true I hope they see the light of day sometime.

Not nearly enough.... That TOS 19 is a great book -- excellent monster plant cover!

You are absolutely correct. Same goes for Strange Worlds. (thumbs u

Gotta keep this thread alive.... This is probably my favorite Pre-Hero story in terms of the number and quality of the monsters in the story -- about a comic book artist who draws monster comics and the monsters come to life! If OA of this story ever hits the market I'm gonna have to mortage my house....

I'm trying to find pages from the epic battle between the Thing and Dr. Doom from FF 40. I have three consecutive pages from that battle. Here are the pages I'd like to find and put together to have the full battle sequence:

I like the older Atlas titles, but collecting Marvel for me begins when Atlas became "the company with no name" after the 1957 Atlas implosion. This period is signifcant for not only the folding of so many comic book titles but also for the death of Maneely and the arrival of Kirby, Ditko and Heck. You can witness Marvel arising out of the ashes of Atlas. Dennis Yes, those are great points. It's sad that Maneely had to die in order for Kirby and Ditko to get more work, which ultimately helped launch the Marvel Universe as we know it. here's one of his covers I love, from 1956

Hey Angelo, nice book! Actually the Kirby/Ditko World of Fantasy (as well as Strange Worlds) are very much Pre-Hero Atlas books (although decidedly sci-fi as opposed to Pre-hero giant monster). I think they don't carry the weight of the others because their particular series were cancelled. Enjoy!!! --Steve I think I'm more with Watcher on this one, though it is admittedly a gray area. With regards to publisher they need to be considered Marvels because they were published at the same time as TTA, TOS, etc. Second, there was a mix of monsters and sci-fi until Marvel shifted over to nearly all monsters. Take a look at the issues in the WoF title that Watcher posted from and there are a couple monster covers. Or consider TOS 2 which is classic Ditko sci-fi. I find them as interesting as the 6 main titles as their interiors are usually fairly similar with lots of Kirby, Ditko, Heck with occasional guest shots by Heath, Sinnott etc. I was agreeing with him as well, just pointing out that these don't get the attention they probably deserve because they were cancelled, whereas the ongoing series eventually spawned hero books. I typed it out too fast without being very clear. I think these are great books, they just get overlooked by a lot of collectors. But they are as legitimately "pre-hero" as the other 6. Steve

Hey Angelo, nice book! Actually the Kirby/Ditko World of Fantasy (as well as Strange Worlds) are very much Pre-Hero Atlas books (although decidedly sci-fi as opposed to Pre-hero giant monster). I think they don't carry the weight of the others because their particular series were cancelled. Enjoy!!! --Steve

Yeah, to answer your and ft88's questions: The key thing is that Dr. Pym is the character in TTA 27, and he's reintroduced in TTA 35 in costume as Antman, so TTA is the 1st appearance of the Pym character and the origin of his powers. Marvel never had a Bee-Man, so although the TOS beehive story is a sort of prototype, it's not the first appearance of an enduring character. Plot summary from Monster blog: The Man In The Beehive History: Secretly born a mutant, millionaire Lucius Farnsworth was able to work near miracles with the power of his brain. Having a way with bees, Farnsworth was the most successful honey producer in the state. One night, Eric (one of Farnsworth's beekeepers) broke into Farnsworth's mansion to rob the safe. Discovering Eric, Farnsworth used his superior mind to overpower him, making him hand over his gun. As punishment, Farnsworth shrunk himself and Eric down to the size of bees. Both entered a beehive, and Farnsworth commanded the bees to terrorize Eric. When he saw that Eric had learned his lesson, to never rob Farnsworth again, Farnsworth returned himself and Eric to normal size, telling Eric that all of the events were just an illusion brought on by a hypnotic trance. An older, powerless Lucius Farnsworth was threatened by the menace of The Weed, which would have conquered the world if not for Farnsworth's gardener unwittingly destroying it. Demonstrated Powers: Lucius Farnsworth was a mutant whose brain powers included the ability to shrink himself and others to the size of bees. He could mentally dominate the wills of others, and could also command bees. It is unknown if Farnsworth had any other psionic abilities. It's true there are similarities between the two (both had psychic control over insects) and the story goes, as tmoore quotes from Overstreet, that they "tested" both books. Although, you have to wonder back then how "scientific" Marvel's test was. Actually it's been said that there was actually no "test" but that Ayers liked the character and some readers wrote it about it too. And this was right at the start of their hero launches, so perhaps it was just the right bit of feedback at the right time. However, kind of funny to think that if TOS had gotten the better response, a Bee-Man could have been a founding member of the Avengers... or the X-Men since he was a "mutant" (PS, there is a storyline with a Bee-Man character in Harvey Comics' Double-Dare Adventures 1 and 2 from the mid 1960s, and it's pretty entertaining: Oh, a couple more things regarding Lucius Farnsworth: As if Stan and the crew didn't recycle the pre-hero monster plots enough, The Man in the Beehive was Lucius Farnsworth. Interestingly, there was another character by the name of Lucius Farnsworth who was a scientist terrorized by a giant weed in "The Weed" in Strange Tales 94. In addition, the Mutant which I talked about previously in this thread (who was in the story from Tales of Suspense 6) was named Vincent Farnsworth. He had the ability to phase through solid objects. So in TOS 6 we have Vincent Farnsworth and in TOS 32 we have Lucius Farnsworth who is also called a "mutant" who has the ability to shrink to insect-size, and psionic powers to control people's minds and talk to to Bees. Very interesting. It seems the Farnsworth family (if these Farnsworths are all related) may have been an early precursor to some sort of mutant families. Kinda cool! That or Stan just liked to name all his characters Farnsworth.....

Yeah, to answer your and ft88's questions: The key thing is that Dr. Pym is the character in TTA 27, and he's reintroduced in TTA 35 in costume as Antman, so TTA is the 1st appearance of the Pym character and the origin of his powers. Marvel never had a Bee-Man, so although the TOS beehive story is a sort of prototype, it's not the first appearance of an enduring character. Plot summary from Monster blog: The Man In The Beehive History: Secretly born a mutant, millionaire Lucius Farnsworth was able to work near miracles with the power of his brain. Having a way with bees, Farnsworth was the most successful honey producer in the state. One night, Eric (one of Farnsworth's beekeepers) broke into Farnsworth's mansion to rob the safe. Discovering Eric, Farnsworth used his superior mind to overpower him, making him hand over his gun. As punishment, Farnsworth shrunk himself and Eric down to the size of bees. Both entered a beehive, and Farnsworth commanded the bees to terrorize Eric. When he saw that Eric had learned his lesson, to never rob Farnsworth again, Farnsworth returned himself and Eric to normal size, telling Eric that all of the events were just an illusion brought on by a hypnotic trance. An older, powerless Lucius Farnsworth was threatened by the menace of The Weed, which would have conquered the world if not for Farnsworth's gardener unwittingly destroying it. Demonstrated Powers: Lucius Farnsworth was a mutant whose brain powers included the ability to shrink himself and others to the size of bees. He could mentally dominate the wills of others, and could also command bees. It is unknown if Farnsworth had any other psionic abilities. It's true there are similarities between the two (both had psychic control over insects) and the story goes, as tmoore quotes from Overstreet, that they "tested" both books. Although, you have to wonder back then how "scientific" Marvel's test was. Actually it's been said that there was actually no "test" but that Ayers liked the character and some readers wrote it about it too. And this was right at the start of their hero launches, so perhaps it was just the right bit of feedback at the right time. However, kind of funny to think that if TOS had gotten the better response, a Bee-Man could have been a founding member of the Avengers... or the X-Men since he was a "mutant" (PS, there is a storyline with a Bee-Man character in Harvey Comics' Double-Dare Adventures 1 and 2 from the mid 1960s, and it's pretty entertaining:

Klagg!!! would be a great name for a rock band... Nice books Angelo!

Congrats!! That's a phenomenal pickup!! Thanks,Steve. Maybe one day my collection will rival yours Angelo Keep buying mine and it will Yeah, no joke. You're like an escrow account: holding onto those pre-heroes for me until I buy them from you Angelo That can be arranged!

Congrats!! That's a phenomenal pickup!! Thanks,Steve. Maybe one day my collection will rival yours Angelo Keep buying mine and it will It's hard to divest myself of my pre-hero slabs, but that OA smack is a-callin' to my veins.... It won't be long before I have no pre-hero collection left! Now, if I manage to win the lottery or sumthin, I'll have pre-hero slabs and OA....