grapeape

16 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I was wondering if the pricing at SDCC seemed specially priced high for the con, or reflects a market disconnect generally? Are perhaps dealers are unwilling to lower their prices because it will reduce the value of their inventory, perhaps to avoid a problem with loan security?  

Some dealers are choking this market by hoarding and playing no listed price games. Best way to buy is to make a deal privately (but factor market data that is out there) or auction with a company that respects you. You have to push...make HA or any other auctioneer earn their commission when you're selling. When you buy don't spend F U money unless it's for your private collection.

I saw mountains of art with no prices. Sad. Very few pieces deserve the inquire B S. Used to be that would be for something extraordinary like the ASM 299 cover mentioned in the thread. Now it's for interior pages with moderate content on the page?

Let the market work please dealers. Mike B is one of the best because he always lists prices. Now there are times where Mike leaves meat on the bone for the buyer and there are times where he eats all the left overs. His model is sound however as collectors paying attention can gauge what Mike is doing price wise and over time can make a little bit if they want/have to sell. Mike influences the market but he also keeps art moving through the pipeline. It's good for market health.

Then there are those that choke the market...I won't name the dealer but a splash page listed for 24k on his site a few years back never sold. I was surprised to see it at the Con because he had taken it down from the site. How much? I asked.  85k was the dead pan response.

So there are a few who play a game: buy it now or get punished down the road. They simply have a crazed notion that the piece they have listed and unsold for years is "flying up in price." They continue to move the price up. I say let the market decide on some of this inventory so we can have a healthy collector market into the  future. It's bottle necking the inventory. We're going to wind up with a ton of over priced material that will crash down on most collectors. Those that came in late will have to figure out how they were left holding the bag. It's like buying a $300k house in Southern California for $600k because that's what everybody is asking. Eventually it's a long way down and should you have to sell,,,,,ouch.

3 hours ago, igotnogame said:

Wasn't able to attend this year unfortunately, but it didn't stop me from being able to complete a collecting goal of getting Dave McKean to do portraits of the Endless.  Despair was the last one I needed and had him revisit Delerium as well.  Couldn't be happier with the results.  Hopefully will be back in 2020 if I can land a pass.

Thanks to everyone who posted updates.

Grotesque Immense discarded isolated disturbed...........hypnotic.....dark........lovely

It's true. Banks give out minimum ten page disclosures and you're not protected like you think you are. This was a part of my line of work. You'd be amazed how many people would toss the contract agreement aside. Natural disasters? Wrong box drilled? 

Now before you pull your art portfolio out of your large size SDB and put it under your mattress, take heart. Read your contract lease agreement from your bank. What's covered and how much? Do you have insurance if something goes wrong?

£7,026 of £10,000 goal

As you all may or may not be aware, our wonderful friend and artist Conny Valentina has recently gone through a horrendous house fire where she lost 2 of her beloved pet cats and $500,000 (her entire life's collection) worth of art, plus any commissions she was working on, which she has no way of refunding. 
 

3 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Good to "see" the syndicate... errr, coiterie... errr, cabal lookin' chill and happy.

What happens in Vegas usually stays in Vegas, with the exception of that photo of the Blue Man group.

7 hours ago, KirbyJack said:

GrapeApe, love the Thing pin-up!

Not so sure about the Thor piece, tho. Great stuff, though! I went to the con in 2010, and saw more OA than I have before or since, combined! Have fun!

Kirby and Alacala! Thanks Glen Gold for the info.

5 hours ago, glendgold said:

 

Very nice piece, and inked by Alcala (as per when it sold at HA in 2016 along with a bunch of other Kirby/Alcala animation pieces).

Thanks for confirming G...I knew it wasn't all Kirby from the art. Thanks to you I know who else did some work.

9 hours ago, MagnusX said:

I wonder why?
he drew the character in the past
is not like he is not familiar with it...

Yeah it just seemed like he was "over" it. Triumph and Torment one of my all time favorite stories(and art). I respect him still and maybe I'll try again should we meet again.

2 hours ago, Bird said:

When Albert Moy opened Timm's commission list last month in advance of SDCC I jumped on it immediately and asked for Clea. I got denied! I had been waiting some time to get a shot at Timm and am sad that is didn't happen. For the $1800 pricetag I guess I could have flown out to SDCC and begged Bruce for it instead!

I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted. Mike Mignola was my heart break. I asked for Dr. Doom at the Wonder Con a few years back. He wouldn't budge. I asked him to name his price. It was dead. No excuses. he just wouldn't do it. 

1 hour ago, Bronty said:

I mean, I respect that everybody’s got artists they don’t dig (and despite what people seem to think the only borises and Julie’s but if you need comic or other illustration art to be “deep” and mean something to you at a certain “stage” in life... its not really going to fit the bill if viewed through that prism.... it’s all pretty juvenile.    It’s not like some Kirby captain America and red skull piece is any less silly.   

So I say enjoy it all (whether Kirby or Boris or whatever) in all it’s cheese and don’t take any of it too seriously

 

that's good advice

On 7/4/2019 at 11:40 AM, glendgold said:

The Internet, Always, a play in one act:

PERSON A: I like something

PERSON B: I like something different.

PERSON A: Your opinion is wrong. 

(curtain)

 

 

Lol.... late to the party but spot on G-Gold

55 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

More X-Men (Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Kitty) > Less X-Men (Phoenix)

Kitty Pryde in her first appearance issue

and, crucially...

Emma Frost in her classic corset and white knickers costume - that alone makes the page more desirable than the #135 one.  Don't front, you all know it's true.  

 

Ha ha classic analysis,  sorry nothing to ad. Well played sir. Well played.

The Paladium was a great place to hold this event. First thing you see walking into the exhibition area is C-Link to your left and Neal Adams to the right. Tons of original art and nice comics also. A Tales of Suspense 39 8.5 going for $42500. 

Most of the art did not have prices on it. If you did your home work before hand or had internet access you could look up prices for Anthony S, Albert Moy and Pete Koch. Otherwise you had to ask and then grab your ankles. Truly wonderful collection of art. Bechara Maalouf Nostalgic Investments had an impressive display and portfolios loaded with pages $900-$45000 range. Of course Cool lines was there.

I made 3k not even trying. Sold a seventies war cover that was just in my portfolios. The high light was my wife helping me find a holy grail poster we've been looking for the 1966 Spider-man 6 feet tall poster.

For art collectors you got to see many of the big dealers that attend SDCC. An appeal to Mike Burkey, please come next year! I had elbow room to spare. It felt like the old days when conventions were intimate and catered to the collector.

34 minutes ago, stinkininkin said:

I never really thought about the cover/splash price ratio in such basic terms.  Is that a pretty standard calculation?  Splash pages=half cover prices (not counting all the variable that go into OA pricing like quality, characters, key images, facing forward or backward, eye appeal, etc, etc, etc.)?

I've heard that calculation in one form or another since i started paying attention in 1996. The things you mention "quality, characters" absolutely matter. Isn't this hobby crazy Scott? As an artist and a collector I imagine you catch yourself shaking your head quite a bit.

2 hours ago, delekkerste said:

 

So, I, personally, wouldn't go so far as to prefer the XM 107 splash over any 1st run Cockrum XM cover, but, I agree that it is an A+ example (it would undoubtedly fetch a greater price than many covers from the run) and, really, the kind of splash that is the exception to the rule.  And the rule is that, for late Silver Age-present (i.e., the era in which covers are known to nearly all exist), splashes are not, by and large, the kind of "bragging trophies" for which "Alpha-irrational bank rollers" generally go to the mat. Again, there are of course exceptions that prove the rule, but, by and large, for art from the past 50 years or so, covers are where the BSDs and "wannaBSDs" (tm) throw down. 

And that is another reason why I couldn't see this one hitting even $100K, not when the XM 102 cover sold for "only" $131K just last year.  I mean, sure, this splash has more team members, including Wolverine, but, the 102 cover has by far the more memorable image (more desirable as well, IMO - it doesn't have the awkward poses and copious blank space that the 95 splash does) and carries far more bragging rights.  For me, the presence of the full team & Wolverine on the 95 splash is why I pegged it even at $75-90K instead of, say, $60-75K.

$76K is at the lower end of my FMV estimate, so, I think a "good buy" label could fairly be attached to the purchase.  That is, unless the buyer wasn't a dealer or otherwise able to escape the sales tax...if they had to add, say, 8.875% (as in NYC) to the price, bringing it close to $83K, I'd still say it was a decent buy, but, nowhere near the "steal" that some are making it out to be.  

You are the voice of reason on this splash no doubt. Would you concede that it was at least possible that the splash hits 100k if  as you said below,

9 hours ago, Carlo M said:

Have to agree with Gene on this one.  Great splash, but small Wolverine and - of course - no Phoenix.  So based on recent prices of interiors 76k feels about right.  Great looking splash and very historical, though.  Great congrats to the buyer.

Yeah 76k nothing to sneeze at. I would love to own it. 

6 hours ago, Bronty said:

Grape ape:   I’m not a big Xmen fan but I really like both the cover and splash for 95...  however not everyone seems to share our opinion as neither piece’s results were overwhelming 

Bronty*** Honestly when the boards first tackled this splash a few months back there were many comments like "Cyclops Crotch close up" and "$100" offers. I wondered if maybe this one was in trouble?Not sure what made this piece dispensable? I really like Cockrum's work especially on X men. 

5 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Well...good-but-not-great panel pages from the two keys, GSXM #1 and X-Men #94, are going for more than $20K a page, but, I don't see that happening for X-Men #95-107.  I think good-but-not-great pages from the 1st Cockrum run are more like mid-teens, plus or minus a little bit (say, broadly, $13-$19K).  

I think this splash is cool, but, I didn't think for a second that it was a 6-figure piece.  As Dan M. said, even the #95 cover underwhelmed at auction; I see the splash being worth around half of the Kane/Cockrum cover (which I would peg in the $150-$180K range these days), hence...$75-$90K feels right to me.  

My feeling is that a few of the upper-end sales of Byrne X-Men art have created the impression that (nearly) all of 1st run Cockrum and Byrne X-Men art is worth more than it actually is.  The reality is that there are a lot of pieces that end up selling for less than what many people expect.   

I think you make a solid point backing it up with past sales. Agreed 100% with Cockrum at $13-19k. The Cover/splash= is a good formula. My feeling was more instinctual based on my guess that at least two Alpha-irrational bank rollers might roll up their sleeves on this one. It felt like a bigger fish for those who might want to cement their collection with this bragging trophy. Sweet splash- hope the winner posts and tells us how he/she feels about it here or CAF.

If it's two guys from Northern California we will only see the art posted with the inquire sign.

8 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Where would you peg the value of this one?  I thought it was $75-90K and that the lower end was more likely unless two people really went for it.  

You know I believed we would had at least two bidders that would push it to 100k. A splash from such an early "new" X Men period felt like the fresh kind of piece high bidders might draw blood over. 

95 Splash....congrats to the winner for stealing this one. So much meat left on that bone. Trade value alone ha ha. So nice to see this one come up. Gave us a lot to talk about. I love this obsession of ours.

3 hours ago, Stan Singh said:

Thanks for the kind words Peter! I won't let it bother me.  

Stan I like your efforts! Not hurting anybody. seriously thank you. Honestly the time and effort people waste chastising others is sad to me.

14 minutes ago, Rick2you2 said:

Still don’t want to take a shot at names?

 Okay,

McFarlane Spider-Man interiors

John Romita Spider-Man interiors

John Byrne FF interiors

all recreations no matter the artist

Has nothing to do with the skill level of these artists. They are some of the best. I feel people have paid too much based on emotion. Mike B has most of the supply. That’s dangerous to someone buying now. Will your 45k Romita page really appreciate in value? Maybe.

or.....

Did TF pay too much for the first app of Wolverine? Hey at least with that one he shot for the moon. I doubt he cares.

also you have newbies with money paying the same or more for Romita pages inked by artists other then Mooney or John himself.

John  Buscena inked by Jack Abel is not the same as inked by Sinnott. We could see a correction just based on BWK or buying without knowledge.