Rick2you2

Uh, not so much. You sure can go wrong with digital. If you just want “pretty picheres”, you can also make a copy of what is shown on-line and tack it to your wall. Maybe even take a digital file to a copier for reproduction. Nothing wrong with that. But when you collect “art”, other than posters, it needs an element of uniqueness to qualify. Now, if the digital print came even with a hand drawn sketch, at least it would be somewhat unique. That, IMO would have a bit of value. It should be standard practice; even a 5 minute sketch should be the future. And as for future value, someone a while ago reported an attempted resale, at an auction I think. As I recall, the ROI was negative. There is so much original art out there, why bother with a print (without at least a Remarque)? One day, things will change. Maybe in 10 years, you’ll break even. By the way, I like modern art. So do others here. I also think some of the older stuff doesn’t render the value the newer stuff does. And I’m not sold at all. I’d rather throw money at an original sketch.

Rarely. A lot of artwork is on line, either via auction or private sales. Other times, I contact the artist on-line directly (not always easy to find, or get an answer; one took around 14 months to answer). I have bought some at conventions, however, but not a lot. Generally, from the artist who decided to go into his basement/storage bin to find something to sell.

There is very little reason why the drop in the Dow isn’t reversed in the next few months other than an overly concerned Fed and “scaredy cat” investors. One of them involves poor harvests driving up prices of grain and fruit. As far as Europe goes, well, that what happens when you hitch your ride to a Russian pipeline and have too much of your economy tied to selling high priced goods. But for the rest of us poor slobs, people are still buying, and spending, but buying less quantity due to high prices, and at least in the supermarket and restaurants, trading down. There is still a high level of employment. And, the stock market, I have read, has already assumed another 3/4 point increase in the Discount Rate at the next meeting. I think that adds up to cautious increases until the end of the year (unless the next crop of economic indicators changes radically).

Thank you. Unlike what I assume are a fair number of people here, I usually buy things that are pretty cold and will stay that way. So discussions on prices being generally strong don’t often affect my collecting reality. But, it would sure be nice to hear about those submarkets so I don’t choke on a price the next time Albert posts something (and then see a comparable page go for even more on HA).

But no one has bought yet, correct?

Boredom.

I use a Brother MFC-J6545DW, which is $520 on Amazon. Since it’s also a printer, it saves space, and comes with auto feed for documents. It uses ink tanks, which save money (although, in over 2 years, I still haven’t added ink to the initial supply). I found the software a little annoying, at first, and it was hard to find the hard wired connection on the machine due to poor directions (top quarter lifts up), but the scan qualities and printing, along with the speed are quite good. Be warned that this thing is pretty large for a tabletop unit. There is a newer version (J6555DW for only $330 or so on Amazon).

I’ve also noticed that my tastes have changed over the years, and I have come to better appreciate things I own than I used to.

My focus is a single character, although, I will buy other pieces if they hit me and are affordable or I just like the artist. When I was way younger, I encountered the character in his book and found his mix of supernatural powers and spiritualism intriguing, and unique. I also collect from any era, and try to buy pieces which consist of as many different styles as possible—the more obscure the better. I will even buy art by artists I don’t particularly like for the sake of comparison.

They can sell at a loss, but I’ve seen what dealers have paid for low level stuff (often bought in bulk). The percentage mark-up can be pretty high. Things would have to be pretty bad, or their buys would have to have been really bad, to get into loss territory.

I didn’t really want to get back into this, but it’s 3:00 AM, and I am wide awake. So, just a little… In broad terms, yes there is market compression. But if you watch someone playing a real accordion, there are times the folds at the top, for example, are very small, almost nonexistent, but the ones at the bottom are really big. Same with markets. To me, a lot of collectors at the bottom buy things from spare cash (like me) as compared to dipping into their investment portfolio to swap for different investments. So, they are more likely to be strapped by inflation than a stock market drop—which can be hurt by inflation, but not necessarily or to the same extent. Lower priced pieces also have less “profit” built into them by dealers because they are cheaper. They can’t go too low ( and I don’t see dealers selling things at a loss, at least in this environment). As such, I see lower end pieces holding up on price, but sales totals may drop. If someone is good at picking “winners” in OA, they may make more money in the long run by buying inexpensive art now, as dealers may be a bit hungry, and waiting for the markets to correct later.

The media makes its living being grim, and I frankly don’t see anything which justifies that. People are still buying. Job markets are still tight. Housing is still high, even if no longer effervescent. To me, it looks like the injection of so much money into the money supply due to the pandemic, and continuing deficit spending, are the primary causes of inflation, although poor harvests aren’t helping. Furthermore, the market already assumed a 3/4 point increase in the discount rate, and the Fed is well aware that we are at a tipping point of turning the current technical recession (2 quarters, small negative growth) into a real one. It is going to be real careful before it increase the rate further. People have been tightening their belts and trading down a bit, which should also slow down inflation. By Spring, I think the markets are more likely to turn bullish (“Whew, soft landing”). I don’t think it is a coincidence that the 65 day moving averages on the 3 major exchanges has been fairly stable the past 3 months, even while daily prices keep shooting up and down. People are hoping the other shoe won’t drop, but know it hasn’t happened.

No, I don’t think that’s necessarily correct at all. I wouldn’t consign my stuff to purchase “high end” stuff because the high end stuff isn’t going to satisfy my nostalgic urge. If the market at the high end drops, but I see a page from a book I want that seems to be going above existing market, I may still go for it if I want it. As compared to the stock market, I think the low end enjoys more price immunity as a collectible, but it is more likely to be affected by a drop in things like consumer spending and employment where middle to upper income folks are affected.

I’m curious how, and if, this all affects the bottom end of the hobby (below $10k) where most purchases are made. Do the higher levels buyers simply sit it out (which is my suspicion) or satisfy a purchasing urge, dipping down from buying above $100k, to between $100k and above $10k, and then down below $10k, or even lower price points. Since buying below $10k (or $1k) is not likely a burden for most people, at least occasionally, my suspicion is that that slice of the OA market’s pricing may not pause or even move up a little.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if AI is being used already for backgrounds which are somewhat repetitive? It wouldn’t surprise me, and I wouldn’t be offended. Some artists use assistants for backgrounds, so I don’t know if there is much of a difference.

I just look in wonder at what people will pay for cardboard, crummy photo duplicates and statistics. At least we get real, original artwork.

I will try to make this simple. It was intended as a simple point. I am simply saying that we ought not be referring to the “market”, but instead think about the “markets”. Much like the stock market isn’t really a single market but lots of different submarkets. They may broadly go up or down, but different sections move differently. I, for one, would love to see a lot more attention to those different submarkets in OA. Similarly, the Byrne “submarket” will invariably sell for more—I am fine with that. I was just trying to use it as a comparison to Anderson as a jumping off point, which I hope I made more clearly by referring to the stock market. My father used to say that if everyone were average, we would all have one teat and one ball. That’s as good a way as any to explain why I don’t like referring to the “OA market.”

Look, just as a point of comparison, a Byrne/Austin X-Men page, with 5 panels went for $2,477.50 on October 12, 2002. A different Byrne/Austin page, 7 panels, went for $36,000 on Sept. 9, 2022. That about 14 times more than the price in 2002. Yet, depending on your view, the Murphy Hawkman page did anything from not keeping up with inflation to 2-3 times higher. And it's a lot easier for a piece to climb higher at a low base than a high base. So, why do we keep talking about "the market" instead of the submarkets for different types of OA?

I just recorded what was on Heritage. He died in Oct., 2015.

Since you asked, I decided to test my sense of hobby pricing. As I am sure you know, Murphy Anderson is a well respected artist, and his Hawkman work is certainly outstanding. But, if you stay away from the prices on his covers and major splashes, and focus on panel pages, you can see what I mean. I had seen a Hawkman panel page go for $2,400 at the recent Heritage auction, and I was shocked at what I thought was a bargain. Turns out, it was only a fair price by historic standards, but not a bargain. First, here is the page: I then went back through Heritage's old auction results to develop comparisons. When doing so, I limited my criteria to exclude any covers, almost all full page splashes, and almost anything that wasn't from Hawkman. I did include a few Atom and Hawkman pages when I saw them (since it was a continuation of the Hawkman and the Atom books), a single Mystery in Space page from a Hawkman story and one splash from A&H (which had a very small image of Hawkman, and mostly consisted of the Gentleman Ghost). Mostly, the inclusions were due to a time gap of comparables. I also excluded pages from Hawkman which did not include him. There were a number of sales of multiple pages, which, on a per page basis, were more or less in line with other prices. Another point worth mentioning is the Consumer Price Index. The first table entry is from July, 2002 for $1,840.00. By August, 2022, $1,840.00 inflated to $3,025.84. Oh, and don't forget, Heritage has also increased its premium over the years. Here's the result from an MS Word table (which didn't paste in very elegantly), with some comments in the middle. Date Comments Price 07/04/02 With both Hawkman and Hawkwoman $1,840.00 03/08/03 Includes large vertical panels $1,322.50 03/08/03 Attempted Flip, same as 07/04/02 $1,782.50 01/02/05 Includes Hawkman and Hawkwoman $920.00 02/29/08 5 panel, 3 mini-splashes, both Hawks $2,031.50 08/02/13 Bland, 7 panel, 2 mini-splashes $1,553.50 05/13/16 Mostly, one large splash (nice piece, but look at 08/04/18) $2,629.00 02/25/17 Atom and Hawkman, w/half splash $2,390.00 02/23/18 Hawkman, all 5 panels $2,509.50 08/03/18 Includes 2 mini-splashes, with fight scene. High quality 5 panel $3,600.00 08/04/18 Same splash as 05/13/16 $1,200.00 08/03/19 Attempted flip of 08/03/18 $3,240.00 05/02/20 Mystery in Space, Hawkman story $1,620.00 09/11/20 Same as one for 03/08/03 $6,600.00 12/14/20 Atom and Hawkman, p. 1 splash with little Hawkman and big Gentleman Ghost $1,440.00 04/08/22 From Hawkman 1, 2 mini-splashes $6,600.00 09/11/22 Adam Strange and Hawkman $2,400.00 In fairness to Mr. Anderson, his covers and major splashes do appear to have done a good deal better. On the other hand, these results seem broadly consistent with the prices of his efforts on different books for panel pages. Now, I haven't checked, yet, but I will wager that Silver Age Marvel has done a lot better for B-level hero's like Hawkman All of this is to my point that subcategories of art should be in the discussion of OA. We do a disservice to collectors when we paint with a broad brush, and permit dealers to overcharge when we buy into it.

Found this on-line from the the History channel. https://www.history.com/news/tulip-mania-financial-crash-holland.

Don’t forget the other side of the coin: it may encourage owners to sell so they can have a little more play money. And, they may be a bit hungry.

I was one of those DC fans; I really liked the Justice League. On balance, the stories were simpler and more compact, while I found a lot of Marvel’s artwork messy with open story lines. Never liked FF. On the other hand, I really did like Spider-Man. I barely remember them, but I also liked the original Fly, by Simon, and Jaguar. Childish in retrospect, but hell, I was a child.

Probably not. But on a related note, are prices increasing in tandem with price increases with say, DC Superboy art? My guess is the Marvel art is doing better. Then, why are they grouped in the general category of OA without submarket differentiation?

I’ve made this comment before, but a cricket chirping in the desert would get a better response. You wrote about “the OA market”, but isn’t it time to consider the submarkets, and differentiate where they may head? We talk about how hot the Bronze Age stuff has often become, while a fair amount of low interest Silver Age stuff gathers dust. High end Silver Age work keeps rising, but I hear some Golden Age OA has dropped (I don’t know, I don’t observe). And does this have any relevance to commission prices, or are they affected by something else? I think we are past the point where we can just say there will be periods of “flat growth” or general increases, given what we know, it deserves greater scrutiny. The boardies here have such a vast base of knowledge and technical skill, maybe differentiation would be helpful to everyone at large. Anyway, so much for my soapbox. Back to your regularly scheduled programming. 🙂