RockMyAmadeus

Dave Stevens was doing beautiful women long before Hughes and Campbell...and doing it far better.

I'm taking you at face value when I ask "so, if you saw color touch, and it was quite obviously color touch, you wouldn't say anything about it?" If you opened up a book, and it looked like this: or this: You would say nothing, or say "I don't know if this has been restored or not"...?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-513 Specific link where the above is found, but it can be found in multiple places.

The misconception under which you are laboring is that the transaction is "done" just because the buyer received the item, made an inspection, and didn't notice anything themselves. If a buyer chooses to have the item independently inspected, you, the seller, can't create a condition of sale which precludes that...provided, of course, that the buyer acts in a reasonable time frame to do so. If the buyer chooses to do that...which they have the right to do...the transaction is not "over" until the inspection is complete and the buyer is satisfied. From the Uniform Commercial Code U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES (2002) › PART 5. PERFORMANCE › § 2-513. Buyer's Right to Inspection of Goods: (1) Unless otherwise agreed and subject to subsection (3), where goods are tendered or delivered or identified to the contract for sale, the buyer has a right before payment or acceptance to inspect them at any reasonable place and time and in any reasonable manner. When the seller is required or authorized to send the goods to the buyer, the inspection may be after their arrival. Any commercial attorneys should feel free to correct me if I have misstated or misused the UCC. You would have a very difficult time, I imagine, trying to convince a judge that having a comic book inspected by the only reputable appraisal service in the industry (CGC) is unreasonable.

Because it's not a guarantee, as I said before. What you think is a "reasonable assumption" has no bearing, because, as the seller, you bear the responsibility for making sure your item is accurately described, whether you are actually capable of doing so or not. Why "blame the seller instead of themself"? Because the seller is not allowed to create a condition of sale that precludes a buyer from seeking an independent, third-party opinion as to the condition of the item in question. That's not how it works. Nothing gray about it. And if one's emotions come into play during a business transaction, one has no business being involved in such transactions. Sorry.

It doesn't assume anything of the sort. What you describe happens every day, all the time: an independent, third party analysis of an item and its condition, which includes both objective observation and subjective interpretation, to determine where its level of physical preservation stands. No one said anything about "indefinitely." But a buyer has a reasonable amount of time to do their due diligence, which absolutely includes seeking an independent, third party opinion. Ignorance on the part of the seller doesn't absolve.

Restoration either exists or does not exist, entirely independently of any and all grading companies and their standards. Restoration, if present, is not there because CGC says so (aka, "their standards.") It is there because it is there. You are confusing objective observations with subjective opinions. If a seller doesn't know if his or her books are restored or not, that doesn't absolve them of responsibility. Grading is subjective. The presence or absence of restoration is not. If a seller says "I don't know if this book is restored" and the buyer chooses to have its condition appraised by a reputable third party to make sure (and, sadly, at this point there is only one: CGC), and restoration is discovered, the buyer doesn't "own" the book because they chose to have it so appraised...and no court in the land would uphold that as a valid condition of sale. Besides...there is no such condition as "as is" in an online purchase, where the buyer cannot inspect the item prior to purchase.

No. Why? Because grading is subjective. Restoration, on the other hand, is not. Restoration is either there or it is not...whether or not it is detected...and is not subject to interpretation. Grading, on the other hand, is, because you're interpreting how the flaws affect the overall physical preservation of the item, which is always a subjective analysis. That doesn't mean aspects of restoration and how that affects the book's overall condition aren't subjective...they are...but whether or not restoration is present is not. It is either there or it is not. "I think this a 9.0." "I think this is an 8.5." "I think this is a 9.2." Totally legitimate conclusions, because grading is subjective. "This book has color touch." "This book does not have color touch." Both of those statements, outside of a Schrödinger experiment, cannot be true at the same time. It either does, or it does not. Same with things like "this book has a 1/4" color breaking crease on the bottom right corner of the front cover." How that crease affects the grade is subjective; that it exists is not. And, of course, it is just as likely for a random book by a random seller to grade lower than the seller suggested, thereby making the book worth less than the price paid; in both cases, the buyer has no recourse, unless the seller failed to disclose material problems that would have an impact on that grade. In other words...it's totally legitimate....though usually quite scummy....to say "book is in MINT condition! Only has a single 5" crease! Centerfold missing!" If those flaws are disclosed, the buyer can make his or her choice based on the information presented to them. The seller cannot say, however, that "book is in MINT condition!" and fail to disclose flaws that would substantially impact the item's condition. What does "substantially" mean...? Good question. I doubt you can make a claim where the buyer thinks a book is a 9.2, but the seller described it as 9.4. However, you could probably make a fair claim if the seller described it as 9.4, and it's a 5.5 on a good day. But if the book is in better condition than advertised? Sorry, seller, shouldn't have been so hard on the book.

You, the seller, are responsible. If you're not sure if something is restored or not...submit it yourself. Getting a book graded...and, I fully believe the legal system will agree with me when and if they ever catch up in this area...is merely obtaining an appraisal. If you take a car you are planning to purchase to a mechanic to have it's condition appraised, the buyer isn't obligated to buy the car. Same with comic book grading: someone is seeking a professional, third party opinion. It's why the idea of the slabbed book being a "package" is, and always has been, utter hogwash. "You cracked the book out! Now it's not what I sold you!" No, barring any changes to the actual book, you sold me a book with a condition appraisal attached to it. It is the book inside...and nothing but the book inside...that has any actual value. Don't believe me....? Try and sell an empty slab on eBay...any empty slab...tell me how much you get for it. Try it with an empty slab that has a label for a 9.4 AF #15. Besides....no one, not even CGC, can guarantee that something isn't restored. There have been, on occasion, books that went through the "restored - not restored" revolving door. They do very well...but they aren't perfect, and neither is anyone else.

You would think, but I don't think that's the case. Remember, CGC still doesn't acknowledge newsstand vs. Direct, even when the paper stock is different, except in a very few cases. I don't remember the oldest slab I saw with an MJ notation, but it would probably have been around 2006? 2007? Maybe scattered notations going back to 2002?

I would suggest it is your proximity to local bases that drives their local availability. Mark Jewelers books from the 90s....and the program ended around 1991 or 1992...as demonstrated by the sale of the New Mutants #98 discussed here, are prohibitively rare. If they are common near you, I'll be happy to buy every single copy you find that you don't want.

And, it's certainly possible that there are slabbed copies out there that don't have the notation at all, but have the insert. The only way to tell would be a very careful examination of the open edges, and even that may not be entirely clear.

Wow. The X-Men #94, if it's complete. is worth double that alone. Even low grade X-Men below #143 are hard to resist at $5 or less. I suspect, if all the rights issues get worked out, and the X-Men can be folded into the MCU, these books will rise back to the top. It's silly that Ms. Marvel #1 sells for the same price in 9.8 as X-Men #120. Sure, X-Men were saved in decent numbers, but #1s were hoarded by everyone in the mid to late 70s. There are (currently) nearly 4 times as many 9.8 Ms. Marvel #1s, with more sure to come. Speaking of which...two copies of X-Men #134 in 9.8 sold for $1000+ in the last week, nearly as soon as they were listed.

The NM #98 is probably the very last key that would have an MJ insert, as the program ended right about then, so there would be that factor. MJs from the 80s and early 90s tend to be a lot rarer than their 70s counterparts, so that all factors in, of course. If it was a 9.8....or the buyer thought there might be a chance at a 9.8...then I can see the $1500 price, but for a 9.6 at 4x-5x the regular price, it was pretty aggressive.

No real way of knowing. They don't trade hands often enough to establish a reliable market. I think $1500 for a NM #98 9.6 is excessive, but the buyer didn't.

Mark Jeweler's inserts were well known in the comic collecting community long before these boards existed.

Really, newb? You think you're ready to get into this pool...? This thread is a complete lustertruck of lunacy.

No one likes to dream off their collections.

Yes, I was just giving you a hard time.

Who's B...? (now, now, I'm not the only one who thought that... )

Sigh. I'm in. No trick books, you! (shakey fist)

Not my point. I'm talking to people who know nothing, and care nothing, about the book in their hands, other than "how much is this worth?" Having interacted with you for well over a decade, I know that's not true of you.

The problem with Detective "#1000" is that DC didn't arrive at that number honestly. Same with Action "#1000" or ASM "#800", etc. They broke their numbering. There is no Detective Comics #900 (no matter what some claim), and there is no #925 or #913 or #892. Once you've broken your numbering, you can't go back, no matter how many times you want to try. Collectors in the future...assuming there are any...will be endlessly puzzled over these things, desperately looking for missing issues that never existed. It's quite a shame.

This was so true that editors like Julius Schwartz noted it in the 50s, when re-creating the super hero genre. He and others, like Roy Thomas, made mention of the fact that some readers were puzzled when Flash #105 came out....a mere 10 years after Flash #104....and wondered how they had missed those previous issues, and where they could be obtained. Most people reading Fantastic Four #1 had no idea that, only 7 years earlier, another Human Torch was making his last "golden age" appearances in Young Men. Think about that...10 years ago, what was radically different on the comics market...? And how many people involved in comics 10 years ago are no longer involved now, outside of those who have died? And yet, in prior decades, you had almost a completely new audience for comics every 5 years. Very, very few people who read comics actively in 1961 were still reading them in 1967...which is why what Stan and Co. were doing at Marvel was so groundbreaking: continuity in comics was unheard of, something that they essentially created, and which had never existed in comics before.