RockMyAmadeus

Your point would be far better served if you set aside the emotional language ("dishonors all Stan has done for the comic world") and made your case sticking just to the facts,

I don't mind people having opinions, and sharing them with the world. It's a beautiful thing. What I mind is the idea that he'll probably come along and say that any mention of him here or on other forums is just by "haters" who obviously have some sort of "agenda" to push...as many, many have claimed before him. I suspect the idea that he might be wrong won't even enter his head for a second. We've completely lost the ability to think critically. Everything is about how we feel in the moment. If we don't get it back, we are doomed. Plus, at 10:47 (I could only stand about a minute and a half total) he says "tatered" (as in potato), rather than tattered.

okay maybe then you loved his art but you have to admit the stuff he's put out in the past 2 years is True...a lot of angle-y poses and sharp corners. Human beings aren't made with sharp corners.

Ok. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Take care.

I think that's true of a lot of people. Same ol' same ol'. I understand that his business model works for him...for now. And, unfortunately, the art business has become nothing but an endless cranking out of print-worthy images. But it would be nice if these artists would get back to the craft of storytelling. It would be nice to see a book drawn...start to finish...by Campbell. If Jim Lee can do it, at least in spurts, so can everyone else. Even Picasso and Monet changed up their subjects on a regular basis.

I could do a point by point refutation of your statements, but no one else is interested. Honest. I made a general point, using casual, "for the sake of the argument" numbers. I wasn't responding to anyone. I was making a comment to whomever was interested. I didn't make any "claims", or anything else along those lines. You have created an issue where there is none, and the decision to engage was yours, not mine. If you see "attacks", I'm afraid the issue is your perception, and that would likely be resolved by you choosing not to interact with me in the future. I cannot control your reaction to my comments, but you can. Trust me when I say...no one else is interested. Take care.

No. You're arguing just to argue. While many will claim that's my raison d'être, it's not. You chose to pick out a tiny element of the discussion, and then develop an entire "argument" from it, using bad logic, bad math, unnecessarily confrontational language, and poor reasoning. For instance, your percentage computations are wrong. I could further explain, but no one is really interested. This is not the thread to be discussing intricate economic philosophy. No offense intended, just pointing it out. The value of any item is mostly based on what it is...whether it's a piece of used toilet paper or an Action Comics #1. "Time decay" (what most people call "depreciation") is merely a facet of that, not a separate factor. The other major factor is its condition. Whether it's 90% or 99% or 82.732% or 99.999992647% is not relevant. A signature does not contribute significantly to the value of most things that are signed in the comic book world, with very few exceptions. That's the only point being made.

As Green noted, McFarlane's first Hulk issue included the cover. The reason this is an issue is because this cover stands out from the rest of the Geiger run. THIS is Geiger: Geiger's hulk had a generally square face. And this: But this... Contains elements that are decidedly non-Geiger, including the back lit Hulk and the cross-hatching shadow on Hulk's left leg. Too bad there's no Felix...that would clinch it. Now...I'm not saying it isn't Geiger...but it DOES stand out from the rest of the #331-339 run, with the exception of #337, which might have McFarlane elements to it, too: I could be totally wrong...but to my eye, it looks like Iceman, Marvel Girl, and Cyclops are McFarlane lines, especially with that flippy 80s hair that McFarlane loved on his women.

Disagree entirely. See DD #241. Geiger DID do many Hulk covers around this time...but not this one. The Hulk is what would become classic McFarlane back-lighting.

From DD #241:

I also think #337 is McFarlane as well...at least partially. Look at Marvel Girl, Iceman, and Cyclops.

That's horrifying.

By the way....this gets NO love whatsoever, but the first McFarlane Spidey drawing published is NOT ASM #298.... It's in this Hulk run....

Why, I oughta... (shakey fist smiley)

It's McFarlane. CGC has it wrong, and whatever database they consulted also has it wrong. I wondered the same thing, especially after #331 and #332. Those faces of the people in the background? Full on McFarlane. And, of course, not even his first cover of the series (#330.) For comparison, see DD #241. You'll see the exact same faces on interior pages, done just a month or two before this one.

There is precedent for early generation NGC and PCGS slabs being worth a premium, regardless of the value of the coin inside. There aren't many red labels to begin with. There are certainly fewer now than there were. There are even fewer small number Sig Series labels. I still don't have one.

Yes, it would have been disastrous to punish the book by going with an average. People would have been destroying double (or more) cover books left and right.

They're cheap and common, just buy one and scrape it off!

I just never seem to be where Dale is, and who the hell knows what sort of madness David is doing with CGC these days. I've been on the hunt for #400 no foils, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they'd ironed out all the details, and none exist. I've never seen any other #393 no foils. I can't believe I got mine. I guess people just didn't know what they were looking at. How have you been? Were you not collecting for a while? Tired of the board?

Oh, you know...the usual CGC board nonsense. People love you, people hate you, people think you're the Devil. I think of you every time I look at my Hulk #393 no foil. STILL have never gotten a #377 3rd, can you believe it? Setting books aside for a Keown/David opportunity that may never come, but I DID manage to get a #425 signed by Liam last year! Hulk #330-467, still one of the greatest runs in all of comics history.

You are quite mistaken. From this thread: "The problem with this thread and its premise is that it indirectly implies that PGX is a legitimate competitor to CGC. It is not. PGX has a documented history of fraud and collusion, going back well over a decade, and which has not changed with the passage of time. It's not about the ability to grade. It's never been about the ability to grade, as grading is subjective. It's about the fact that PGX has routinely and consistently engaged in illegal and fraudulent behavior, and I defy Daniel Patterson to take me to court over my allegation. These are very serious allegations, and I am well aware of the very serious potential consequences of my public statements if I have misrepresented or mischaracterized PGX and/or its owner, Daniel Patterson. http://www.justafanboy.com/PGX/ That's just the start. For those interested, what I believe is the relevant statute is found here: https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.085 2017 ORS 164.085¹ Theft by deception: (1)A person, who obtains property of another thereby, commits theft by deception when, with intent to defraud, the person: (a)Creates or confirms another’s false impression of law, value, intention or other state of mind that the actor does not believe to be true; (b)Fails to correct a false impression that the person previously created or confirmed; (c)Prevents another from acquiring information pertinent to the disposition of the property involved; It is my opinion that the activities described in the site linked above, as well as numerous other examples, clearly demonstrates theft by deception on PGX' part. By characterizing restored books as unrestored, AND digitally attempting to "cover up" such deception (it's always the cover up that does you in), they have knowingly created a false impression of value in the minds of the customers of PGX slabs. PGX should not be judged on their ability to grade, but should be rejected because it and he have proven themselves unworthy of even basic trust. It is also my opinion that buying PGX books is the same as buying raw books, with the same right to inspection as anything else purchased over the internet and that, despite the opinions of some, a "slabbed comic" does NOT represent a whole unit or product, but rather represents an item with value, ie, the comic itself, to which is attached an appraisal of condition, and the buyer is not violating any sort of contractual agreement of any kind by removing the attached appraisal (that is, the slab), and having it appraised by another company who also engages in such appraisals for a fee. In other words: if you sell me a PGX book, and I crack it and have it submitted to CGC, and they find a defect that is materially different (not merely a subjective difference of opinion as to its condition), then I retain all right of return of that item, even though it has been removed from its PGX case, because that case is not a product that has any value in and of itself...it's just the container to discourage the use of that specific opinion for that specific item on another item of lesser condition. And...I believe if it ever reached a court of law, that court would find precisely the same thing: a slab does not create a "new product" which must be returned intact for the buyer to be made whole, but is merely an appraisal, and the buyer has a right to seek an independent appraisal of his or her own, without forfeiting his rights in the process. In any event...long story short, PGX's grading ability is utterly insignificant relative to their fraudulent and unethical behavior since their founding. Each PGX slab should be treated exactly as a raw book, and examined as diligently as anyone would a raw example."

Or you could sell them with "once owned by James Powell" as the big selling point. Who...? I only know some dude named "Reno McCoy"... (PS. I can't wait for this to come out. I'm buying.)

Holy goosh nuggets! Greenie! Yer back!

That's not the case I'm making. This issue can be solved merely by educating creators, and competition. Creators talk to each other all the time. That's one reason why this madness spread in the first place. When Klaus Janson sits by himself at his table all day long, wondering why no one wants to pay a CGC punishment tax, while Dan Slott and the Simonsons have people lined up at their booths all day, every day, because they don't charge, and just ask for donations...which people gladly give...he'll figure it out.