dmt02908

Newton Rings are still a thing in 2024!

Thanks for your reply. For whatever reason, I am only seeing this now. I have resubmitted 35 CGC items with Mechanical Errors including the Wolverine 8. Is there such a thing as getting compensation beyond just getting complementary re-holders if the de-gradation of the condition of the books is compromised by CGC's MECHANICAL ERRORS? Best, Dave

I hear you, and I have very little defense. I had that very dilemma on my hands when I submitted the last three hundred books. I figured that I should just go ahead and submit them for grading since so many of them were in the 9.6-9.8 range. I almost sent the books to another company, but CGC is supposed to be the industry "gold standard." The problem that brought me to the boards, though, is the fact that I recently had 35 our of 84 items come back from REHOLDERING with MECHANICAL ERRORS. Thanks for your candor, Dave

That's right. When the problem is multiplied by dozens of a books a year, it becomes problematic, especially since this is a Certified Guaranty company. Even returning the cases is less of an inconvenience than having the books exposed to handling when they have to re-holder the books because of MECHNICAL ERRORS. I feel like some of my books, even if they have not been downgraded in terms of the grade, have been de-graded, if only slightly, in terms of their condition. Thanks, Dave

I appreciate your input! I have been trying to get them to see my particular concerns in a more generalized way. My goal is to have the graded book business sustainable on all ends. Thanks, Dave

Mike, I appreciate the heads up! I will write "Approved by Matt Nelson" on the packing slips. However, the documentation process has been grueling and time-consuming. The posts in this thread, alone, have taken many hours, especially with getting the photographic documentation right. I have now documented thirty five books for the return. Thanks, Dave

Thanks Mike. Will do. I will ship them out this Friday. Best, Dave

Thanks so much for your input! I agree with you. I was working with Jennifer Fuls last year, and she provided outstanding customer service. Everyone else in customer service, before and after, has been friendly. One thing I do take issue with, although I understand why this might be the case, is that every time I have asked bigger questions about QC processes and tolerances, I have not received any kind of direct answer. That is, when I try to ask more systemic-level issues, customer service contains and compartmentalizes the conversation by focusing on the particular MECHANICAL ERRORS being referenced at that particular time. Therefore, I feel like my overall concerns have not been addressed even though my aim has always been to make the enterprise sustainable on both sides. Just so you know, I had a full case of of books that included a high-grade run of the Marvel Comics Presents Weapon X series (72-84) all come in with significant Newton Rings (due, I think, to inner case warping). However, I felt so bad for customer service at that point because I was already sending back 75 books under the MECHNICAL ERRORS designation that I held these back thinking I was making too big a deal about the whole thing. Well, when I finally decided to list some of them for sale, I realized that they need to be re-holdered and ended up eating the extra expense of the re-holdering submission. Thanks, Dave

As I review this case of re-holdered books, which I will be submitting for MECHANICAL ERRORS reholdering, it appears that there is a pattern of scratching on the inside border of the outer case. Of course, this could just be a unnoticed (or ignored) production flaw in the case. However, I noticed that with recent case shipments from CGC, they are no longer placing the cardboard over the open part of the box that used to serve as the top of "box within the box." Because the outer case design allows the cases to interlock in shipping and storage, it looks like the interlocking design is actually causing abrasions to the cases in transit because the "box within the box" is now open-ended. Yes, there is some bubble wrap to fill the gap between the two boxes, but the open-endedness is allowing far more movement of the cases within the box in transit. If the correlation is correct, here are some of the results: Again, these are supposed to be re-holdered books with fresh cases, and I have plenty more examples (from the same shipment). Thanks, Dave

Much appreciated. I am working up a PowerPoint that I can submit on Monday. Thanks Mike, Dave

Out of a case of twenty-five recent re-holders, I pulled twenty from the box with issues that warrant a MECHNICAL ERROS designation: CGC 9.6 Secret Wars # 8: Scratches on outer case and inner case in the left thigh area: CGC 9.6 Detective Comics #576: Scratches on outer case and pressed book looks un-pressed: CGC 9.6 Detective Comics #577: Scratches on outer case and pressed book looks un-pressed: CGC 9.6 SS Amazing Spider-Man #301: Scratched outer case (front and center) and pressed book looks un-pressed: NOTE: Book is not laying flat; it is curving upward, stressing the spine, and bubbling the book: CGC 9.6 Marvel Tales #237: Scratches on outer case and pressed book looks un-pressed (actually, warped): CGC 9.6 Marvel Tales #239: Scratches on back cover of outer case and scratches front and center on front: C CGC 9.6 Spectacular Spider-Man #101: Scratches on outer cases and pressed book looks un-pressed: NOTE: Book is bowed; even though it was CCS pressed, it is not laying flat, so it is stressing the spine:

Mike, I am about to submit what I hope is my final round of MECHNICAL ERRORS on books that I just received back from re-holdering. That means that these books will have gone through two crack outs before it is all said and done. I know that CGC holds no liability for a reduction in the grades of the books upon re-holdering, but it seems very problematic to me when there is a potential downgrading of the book based on the exposure caused by their mistake not mine. I have attached photos of one such case here. There is a hair inside the inner case of this CGC 9.8 Wolverine #8. If you look closely, the area where that hair is has already been stressed. So, the question is "Do I risk the downgrading of the book (in terms of condition, not just the grade) to have that removed?" I didn't put that hair in there. But my book gets exposed to possible damage because of CGC's errors because: 1. whoever encased the book didn't notice the hair; and, 2. whoever quality-controlled the book didn't notice it either. And what was the original re-holder for? Warped Inner Cases. Just so you know, there has never been any indication on any of the submission forms, invoices, or packing slips about the optimal temperature range to keep inner cases from remaining un-warped. It seems to me that it is precisely because they know that the exposure of these cases to excessive heat in transit will result in the warping that I have documented in multiple PowerPoints. I think they are just shipping out and hoping for the best or that the customers (and their buyers) won't notice. As a collector, this is just not acceptable. As a seller, it seems very problematic to me to sell a book that is downgraded in condition but not from the official grade that was originally assigned to the book. The truth is, I am taking loss after loss (in time, money, and stress) even though everybody else in the supply chain is taking gain after gain. Thanks, Dave

Another frustration that doesn't get acknowledged with the MECHANICAL ERROS designation is that it takes sometimes up to twenty photos to properly capture the warped inner case phenomena. And when I receive an entire case of MECHNICAL ERROR books as a result of their being subjected to severe heat in transit is that it takes me, literally, three to four hours (per case) to photograph the problems, describe the problems in an email using a PowerPoint presentation, fill out the ME submission form, and re-pack the books for the ME return.

Thanks so much for your input! Unfortunately, some of the spines are not straight. Usually, the top third of the book is bent upwards, which places stress right below the top staple. This stress, in some cases, puts a spine dent just below the issue number/price box in the top right hand quadrant. Also, take a look at the curl on the open side of the Batman comic book. Moreover, it looks like Newton Rings are also connected with the inner case warping problem. For example, this is how I received a 9.8 Batman Adventures #1:

I appreciate your input! If you are a CGC stockholder/stakeholder, you would be right to be concerned about the amount of MECHANICAL ERRORS that CGC has to address not just with me, but, apparently, many of its clients have had to send books back to CGC for a variety of reasons. The thing is that I can't just send books back for complimentary reholdering without the MECHANICAL ERRORS being verified by CGC. They have the MECHANICAL ERRORS designation in their system because they have made the ERRORS. Not me. Also, I am just as concerned about keeping the price of pressing and grading at sustainable levels for the following reasons: 1. When CGC does their job right the first time, they add value to the comic books as a commodity that helps cover the multiple overhead liabilities beyond the cost of the books, the pressing, and the grading. 2. When CGC does their job right the first time, the raw books only have to be exposed to direct handling once, not twice or three times, which better ensures maintenance of its original mint status. 3. When CGC does their job right the first time, I only have to wait six to nine months for my books to be pressed and graded rather than another three to six weeks to get them listed on eBay to start recouping some of my investment. 4. When CGC does their job right the first time, I have a lot less stress with a hobby/business that is supposed to be enjoyable. 5. When CGC does their job right the first time, the business of collecting and selling premium comic books in Mint or Near Mint condition is far more affordable and sustainable for the buyer, the seller, and CGC. And, finally, 6. When CGC does their job right, they retain their "industry leader" status, which the staff at CGC as well as every collector of CGC graded books can feel good about. In fact, when I have inquired about QC tolerances, protocols, and processes at CGC, it is not just out of concern for myself. I really want to help item identify any systemic inefficiencies that, if properly addressed, can keep the financial and emotional costs down for all involved.