rob_react

But something happened in the mean time that was well discussed on here: CGC's restoration grading standards changed. That might be enough to explain everything. That was my thought exactly.

The story of the year is the grade bumping of major keys....both in terms of actual grade and amount of restoration. The rise in price from 155K to 595K on the restored DT 27 is greed fueled. What can stop this....what has ever stopped making a profit. It is very important that this record breaking comic book not be a "grade bump" book.... Mitch, grades can change simply because CGC sees a book differently. Nothing necessarily needs to be done to a book. What is happening is these books are all vying for position (best, 2nd best, 3rd best, etc). Eventually they will settle into their respective positions. Interesting business model....change the standards every 5 years and regrade and regrade . Right now its grade bumping 1 grade and possible 1.2 grades higher. What happens when it it two grades higher....buying at the top is dangerous to say the least. But VC when know what is done to comics today to restore or unrepair to grade bump. Vying for a position does not mean what is occurring is a good and healthy thing. Mitch where have you been the last 10 years? Maybe if you participated in a few threads outside of Action #1's you would have noticed that people have been talking about this since day one. At no time has anybody made 2million on a grade bump/ press or whatever. So the book bumped 100 bucks ten years ago... But this trend is deeper, more profitable... And it is just beginning with ga mega keys....the new saying ..."crack and press"...and make 2+ million profit on a single book....it is coming big time. I think we saw a near unique opportunity with the action 1. It was a beautiful book initially graded with a couple of removable flaws. Flaws that these days most remove before submitting for grading, thus eliminating the potential for upgrades. Will folks continue to try to manipulate books into higher slabs, of course. It's human nature. Folks have been trying to improve books for profit as long as even you have been collecting Mitch (restoration was once widely positively accepted as increasing a books value) However I'm pretty reluctant to think we will ever hear of a 2mil bump on a comic again, it is just not statistically probable. Let's look at the 9.4 bump on the D27 from 9.2....was 155K now 595K... if that bump is even greater even more dollars up. I see in todays Hollywood Reporter an article as to WHY Metro paid over 3.2 million dollars for the Action One...give it read...interesting...here I will sum it up for you....i "it is gonna be worth more".... If you own a GA Key....and can grade bump it .2,.4. or a full grade...what are you gonna do...Gator the 2 million dollar profit Gold Rush( see Chuck R market comments)..has just began..just too much greed and money on the table NOW. mitch, here's my rebuttal...first, greed and money on the table is nothing new...been happening for the past 10 years since the advent of cgc, and happened the previous 30 years to that (just on a diff scale)... second, the tec you bring up did change in grade, but until someone actually buys it, it has not changed in value...I can "ask" anything I want for a book ,but ask yourself, do you think a 9.4 mod Tec 27 is worth 595K? (don't even consider what it was before, just what it is now)...we've never seen a restored Key even sniff 200K, have we? so don't panic just yet... I will keep asking this... why do we care that a book in a PURPLE RESTORED LABEL got a grade bump? I am not a blue label grade absolutist, so I don't get bent out of shape by a bump on a blue label book, but this is the first time I've heard anyone get crazy about a grade bump on a book that is LABELED AS RESTORED. Since it's labeled as restored... someone did some work on it and got a grade bump. Or maybe it just looks nicer to a different grade and it gets .2? Why are the pitchforks out for this book?

I can barely make out what you're saying. I can't bring myself to even make the effort. the ignore button has served me well, except when you guys quote him. +1

Are you conflating the "DA was offered X" story with the story about how Geppi offered $1M in an ad for a NM Action 1? My memory is getting hazy - what is Geppi or Parrino that put that ad in the OSPG? I believe it was Parrino Geppi made the public offer http://www.comicon.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=525594 JP is the offer directly to DA

Is it color breaking? I can't quite tell. If it isn't, then that's a pressing 101 defect.

Yeah, for sure.

I just added the mega scan to flickr

You know what I think is coincidental to the point of ridiculous ? If this is yet another instance where CGC delayed reporting a book in their census as part of a request from the submitter I will be more than simply disappointed concerning the ethics of a third party grader that then pretends to offer an impartial grading service. If the high rollers get special favors from CGC, no matter what those favors are, that we 'common folk' receive then CGC is not impartial. Where do the favors end? Where did it come out that this book was held back. It easily could have been graded in Chicago. Possible, only I don't CGC has updated the census since onsite grading in Chicago. Ah, that I did not know.

So this is what Comics General is like all the time?

Why do we have a problem with a grade change in a purple label book again?

Killer, could see this old label 8.0 being the new 9.2. Same can't be said of the Heritage 8.0, it may be close to it's final resting place with the erasure and piece out of the bottom of the spine. I remember trying to figure out what the defects were when I was looking at the catalog. It looks better than the grade for sure. Yeah, that top right corner could poke a kid's eye out! I just looked pulled out the catalog and looked at the again and... based on the front cover I can't see anything obvious that would knock the book down all the way to 8.0. Rob, isn't there tiny stresses in the red spine area? To me that negates any possible 9.2 grade (?). I'll post a big old scan of the Mastro book tomorrow. And I'm not saying this is the 9.2 we're discussing. The Mastro book has always looked undergraded to me. It was an early book and there's a perception that the early grades were too harsh. To me this book looks like a prime example of that. Of course, I've only ever seen the scan.

As I said earlier in the thread, it sure seems that Gator knows all but can't speak plainly due to confidentiality concerns (either contractual or personal). So you're saying Gator owns the book, it used to be a 2.5, and he's going to sell it at a swap meet?

Killer, could see this old label 8.0 being the new 9.2. Same can't be said of the Heritage 8.0, it may be close to it's final resting place with the erasure and piece out of the bottom of the spine. I remember trying to figure out what the defects were when I was looking at the catalog. It looks better than the grade for sure. I'm more than a bit skeptical that the book is missing. What direct evidence is there that the book is missing besides that one reference in the lawsuit? Has the actual owner stated he lost the book or was that just the word of Doug Allen, Mastro Pres? Was there an insurance claim filed on the book? Absent additional corroboration I'm inclined to think that it was never lost. It's my understanding that the owner himself said the book was missing. Not that that means anything. The story, as I originally heard it was in the context of a prospective buyer who had a deal in place to buy it and the owner came back and said the book was missing. Maybe he wanted out of the sale and came up with that as a story (my dog ate my Detective #27?)

Killer, could see this old label 8.0 being the new 9.2. Same can't be said of the Heritage 8.0, it may be close to it's final resting place with the erasure and piece out of the bottom of the spine. I remember trying to figure out what the defects were when I was looking at the catalog. It looks better than the grade for sure. Yeah, that top right corner could poke a kid's eye out! I just looked pulled out the catalog and looked at the again and... based on the front cover I can't see anything obvious that would knock the book down all the way to 8.0.

Killer, could see this old label 8.0 being the new 9.2. Same can't be said of the Heritage 8.0, it may be close to it's final resting place with the erasure and piece out of the bottom of the spine. I remember trying to figure out what the defects were when I was looking at the catalog. It looks better than the grade for sure.

We should actually get some info on the book before we go off the rails. Of course some of us are permanently off the rails

You know what I think is coincidental to the point of ridiculous ? If this is yet another instance where CGC delayed reporting a book in their census as part of a request from the submitter I will be more than simply disappointed concerning the ethics of a third party grader that then pretends to offer an impartial grading service. If the high rollers get special favors from CGC, no matter what those favors are, that we 'common folk' receive then CGC is not impartial. Where do the favors end? Where did it come out that this book was held back. It easily could have been graded in Chicago.

Not my best photography

And here's some more info about the missing book.

The Mastronet Detective 27 CGC 8.0 is... reported to be missing. It sold for, 273k I think, at the Mastro auction 12+ years ago and has since gone missing. That's the story at least from a guy who I talked to who had a deal in place to buy it until the seller said he couldn't find the book. So, I list it as "reported missing." Fueling the conversation along...what if the 9.2 is the missing Mastronet copy? That'd be a pretty big bump. Let me dig up my scan...

Michael Keaton Batmania era.

The Mastronet Detective 27 CGC 8.0 is... reported to be missing. It sold for, 273k I think, at the Mastro auction 12+ years ago and has since gone missing. That's the story at least from a guy who I talked to who had a deal in place to buy it until the seller said he couldn't find the book. So, I list it as "reported missing."

Except for four years ago. Consistently we know who is number 1. I agree that Action #1 has been the top book in the hobby, but you keep saying ever and right here you're saying "grades being equal" I'm just pointing out that the biggest week in the hobby's history saw a Detective 27 outsell an Action #1 in the same grade. That's just one exception to what you're saying, but it's one we really shouldn't ignore.

Except for four years ago.

The second best copy of Detective 27. It sold twice in 1993 listed in Overstreet as a FN 68 (on the 100 point scale) once for 81k and then once for 101k (the first $100,000 comic book that I'm aware of) Whatever the numerical grade at the time I've heard that it's actually much nicer and would be right around 9.2 if it were in a CGC holder. Which is why I automatically thought of this being that copy coming back after a 21 year vacation.