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HOLY COW Yard sale find!!!!!

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I'll repeat. This is insane. Truly insane. The guy

 

1) Wants the books gone.

2) Set his own price

3) Has a clue as to what they are

4) Has a clue as to what the value is

 

Try this same experiment with the scam reverse-mortgages that are offered to the eldery. All of the criteria is satisfied, but due to their age and declining faculties, the financial loss becomes quite apparent.

 

You seem to think that if the two participants leave the deal happy, that it's ethically and legally right. Where do you live, the Land of Oz?

 

And P.S. Where was it stated this guy had a clue on the Guide or Resale value on his comics?

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The point is, in the free enterprise system there's no need to worry about any of that. As long as no fraud is in place, and the seller knows what he's selling and the buyer knows what he's buying, everything is working out fine.

 

Let me guess, you sell reverse mortgages to senile old ladies?

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since so much of this seems to be poitning to the age of the person which i do believe is incidental, let me clarify to say this guy was no more than 55-60. My term old guy was just to give a general sense of the scenario without boring you to tears with detail. It wasn't a young guy, i guess i should have used middle aged, but its all semantics, not the true matter at the heart of this.

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The point is, in the free enterprise system there's no need to worry about any of that. As long as no fraud is in place, and the seller knows what he's selling and the buyer knows what he's buying, everything is working out fine.

 

Let me guess, you sell reverse mortgages to senile old ladies?

 

Well, let's set aside the senility part of it for a minute (since that brings fraud into the equation) and ask:

 

What exactly is wrong with a reverse mortgage anyway?

 

My understanding is this is a way for an elderly homeowner to take advantage of a lifetime of equity built up in his/her house, rather than leaving that equity to the sole benefit of the descendents.

 

The person owns the house.

The person takes a loan out from a bank with the house as collatoral.

Every month the person gets a check from the bank (the reverse of the standard mortgage checks written in earlier years to the bank ).

Foreclosure is not an option as long as the person is living and is in the house.

Only after the person moves or dies is the loan due, and at that point the descendents can sell the property to pay off the reverse mortgage and pocket any remaining capital gains.

 

How is that a bad deal for the person taking out the reverse mortgage?

 

If I've gotten any of the above facts wrong, I'm sure you'll educate me!

 

Z.

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Apples and oranges, my friend … apples and oranges.

 

That's my point exactly. Comic dealers and collectors have an ingrained resistance to seeing the monetary similarities between finding some 99-year old lady selling off her things and buying a VF copy of Action Comics #1 for $10 and buying her house for $10.

 

Both were bought for peanuts in the 1930's, and both appreciated rapidly.

 

There is absolutely no difference, and if you think so, it's only because due to lack of knowledge, scamming valuable comics is far easier than scamming a house.

 

First off, we're not talking about shiver buying a "VF Action #1" for $10, so stop twisting the facts around. A lot of what I wrote above about demand going to infinity below a certain price breaks down when dealing with astronomical books such as that, and I would agree with you that scamming an original owner out of one would be fairly equivalent to scamming them out of their home.

 

Go back and re-read what I wrote in my initial response. I particularly would like to hear your thoughts on the old ethical problem posed at the end.

 

Alan

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I would agree with you that scamming an original owner out of one would be fairly equivalent to scamming them out of their home.

 

My point wasn't to address his exact scenario, but only to show that many collectors who would buy an expensive comic for pennies would not think it's ethical to do the same for other items.

 

I think it's clinically referred to as Chuckie's Syndrome.

 

Go back and re-read what I wrote in my initial response. I particularly would like to hear your thoughts on the old ethical problem posed at the end.

 

As Kirk likes to say "I don't agree with no-win situations".

 

My own personal view is similar to when someone asks "So you're in a downtown alley at 2 AM, and three guys pulls guns, what do you do?.

 

Make sure I'm not downtown in a dark alley at 2 AM?

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Don't worry about him. Joe Collector or Joe B. does the same thing. Just a few weeks ago, he praised himself for buying a Spidey #129 in VF+ for about $25.00 or so and he continually expresses his delight in finding that single key expensive book in one of his bulk buying frenzy and lets everyone know how cheap he bought it for. A hyppocrite and a double talker. makepoint.gif893whatthe.gifsumo.gifgossip.gif

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"Mommy!!!",says the excited 10 year old, "I just found a really old comic book that has Captain America on it!!! Can I get it please, the man says it is only $4.00"

 

"Junior" ,says the frustrated Mom after having no luck finding any collectable Hummels or Snow Babies, "see if he will take $2.00 and you can have it".

 

Junior to Old Fart, "My Mom wants to know if you will take $2.00 for this comic book".

"Sure kid" ,says the old fart.

 

 

Well Junior really loved that book and saved it for years, he even put it in a plastic bag with a board in it. When he got married and settled down he decided that he would sell it and , lo and behold, the book that he paid $2.00 for was now worth $500 .

"WOW!!!" exclaimed Junior "I am going to have to look for more of these when I go to tag sales from now on"....

 

Moral of the story:

Another unethical bastage has been created.

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I would agree with you that scamming an original owner out of one would be fairly equivalent to scamming them out of their home.

 

My point wasn't to address his exact scenario, but only to show that many collectors who would buy an expensive comic for pennies would not think it's ethical to do the same for other items.

 

I think it's clinically referred to as Chuckie's Syndrome.

 

I'm not opening up that can of worms. Anything I have to say on the subject will not change your opinion and will probably just end up getting me called a "gypsy, tramp and/or thief."

 

But I will leave you with this thought to ponder: Do you have any idea just how massive a collection of 22,000 comic books is? Does the word "albatross" come to mind? It should.

 

Go back and re-read what I wrote in my initial response. I particularly would like to hear your thoughts on the old ethical problem posed at the end.

 

As Kirk likes to say "I don't agree with no-win situations".

 

My own personal view is similar to when someone asks "So you're in a downtown alley at 2 AM, and three guys pulls guns, what do you do?.

 

Make sure I'm not downtown in a dark alley at 2 AM?

 

Where's that banging head smiley? flamed.gifsmile.gif

 

The entire point of the exercise is to illustrate that ethics is not a black and white proposition. It's more supposed to get one thinking about the reasons behind one's actions rather than the actions themselves. In other words, why is it more acceptable to send the train towards a small group of people, killing them but saving hundreds? Why is it even more acceptable if the group is composed of terminally ill cancer patients, and less so if it's young, healthy children? Choosing not to play is a cop out!

 

Alan

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Let me guess, you sell reverse mortgages to senile old ladies?

 

You know, Jow. Ever since reading your editorials something has been tapping me on the shoulder and I finally turned around and listened to it.

 

You seem to have a very distorted and negative perception of "elderly people". They are always senile, victims and/or easily taken advantage of. The "elderly" folks I have known are sharp, intelligent and interesting people with more experience than I have (although, at my age, only a generation or two more experience).

 

As far as the ethics go, in my opinion, if someone is willing to setup shop, so to speak, and ask a certain amount for a certain item, so be it. I don't usually do yard sales. I do go to flea markets and antique shops. My Detective #16 came from an antique shop. My 1st print Classics Illustrated #3 came from a flea market. I have no guilt about having paid $60 for the Detective and $12 for the Classics.

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The local comic shop owner bought a Fantastic Four 1 "not a grr" with 1 page missing and the cover ripped up a bit for twenty bucks at the local value village. Should he be happy with his find or should he take it back and tell them it's actual worth. "One man's ceiling is another man's floor" Buddy should be happy with his yard sale find. What if he would have bought a box of comics and they were all [!@#%^&^], or he bought the box and then found the #81 in there would that have made it better. confused-smiley-013.gif

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firstly my intent wasn't to brag (after all i didn't find an action#1), nor was it to be condoned for paying those prices, it was merely excitedly sharing a find most people here would be able to relate to and or appreciate the luck.

 

You know, Siverbones, I never want to talk to you again after reading of your horrendously callous treatment of that poor old person and your deeply selfish nature. insane.gif27_laughing.gif

 

Seriously, don't stop posting your finds, should more occur. And here is a tip for you. The next time someone decides to become the moral majority and try to make you look like something you're not while elevating themselves in the process, simply post a response saying "Thank you for your opinion. It is appreciated." A guaranteed thread stopper! grin.gif

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yeah Pov, well you know as i went back and reread this thread it seems most replies that were against the purchase were based on spiraling out of context realities and suppositions, so i should have just stopped the thread with your suggested line i suppose. It did certainly open up a vortex of conversation though..... Lots of others have brought up many good points, so i thank you all for offering the opinions. At the end of the day its all a personal decision and thats what you have to be comfortable with. I think its easy to act big & boast in public about what you do, but in private thats where it counts, as well as being honest in public about what you do.

i am going to get some wonder bread & will post the controversial book in have a cigar later, even if some think it should be an "Exploding" cigar. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

 

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am going to get some wonder bread & will post the controversial book in have a cigar later, even if some think it should be an "Exploding" cigar.

 

Cool! Can't wait to see it! Hey - do a scan before and after Wonder Bread. Post both. It should be educational!

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I'll repeat. This is insane. Truly insane. The guy

 

1) Wants the books gone.

2) Set his own price

3) Has a clue as to what they are

4) Has a clue as to what the value is

 

Try this same experiment with the scam reverse-mortgages that are offered to the eldery. All of the criteria is satisfied, but due to their age and declining faculties, the financial loss becomes quite apparent.

 

You seem to think that if the two participants leave the deal happy, that it's ethically and legally right. Where do you live, the Land of Oz?

 

And P.S. Where was it stated this guy had a clue on the Guide or Resale value on his comics?

 

Here: This same guy had some tin police car with machine guns on the hood, looked 40's, but thats not my area of knowledge. He said its worth $400, but he only wants $40 for it. Its obvious this guy wants to unload stuff he had around, and just doesn't care enought to try to get full market value. I guess i would have been wrong for buying that car too....

 

If two informed participants leave the deal happy, yes, its ethically and legally right. That's a clear point you seem to be missing. The 55 year old guy knew what he was selling, and just wanted it gone. I have no concept how ethically or morally you can have any problem with this.

 

And again, you still haven't answered my question. The buyer at Tysons who got $100 retail of comics from me for $10. The other buyer (reed-richards on eBay), who got $750 retail of stuff from me for $200. Hell, ME, when I bought the GI Joe Special 1 from Mike DeCarl at a show for $5 and sold it for $100 online.

 

Under your "rules", in all of these transactions, the buyer should go back and pay the seller more money, correct?

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And here is a tip for you.

 

Here's another one: Next do something worth bragging about.

 

Thank you for your reply. It is appreciated.

 

And with that...

 

mccoy.jpg

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