Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Why Is Horror Being Defined As Shield's WWII Are?

21 posts in this topic

I had forgotten about my similar complaint about OS coming up with Fantasy, Supernatural and Horror designations, allowing EC to take 1st place in Horror even though the REAL FIRST ALL HORROR COMIC was the Avon Eerie #1 1-shot from 1947. OS made THAT one the first "Supernatural" comic. And, in a strange reverse twist, they ignored the ATLAS (post-Timely) first Marvel Tales (93) and specified "Horror/Weird Stories began" although they began in 1949. And what about the 1948 Adventures Into The Unknown #1 which they bill as "1st continuing Supernatural series". So we have what actually are HORROR COMCIS from 1947, 1948 and 1949 all ignored and inaccuratley attributed to absolutely ridiculous "Supernatural" and "Weird" categories just to allow the two EC books - Vault Of Horror 12 and Crypt Of Terror 17 - both from 1950 to be tied for "first horror comic".

 

I have been heavily involved in film, concentrating on horror film, for many years. Even used to write professionally about them. I find it amazing that Overstreet can make a distinction between "Weird", "Supernatural" and "Horror" when many film people I know are still debating that exact thing. Currently there are two main categories: Science Fiction (or as 4E Ackerman coined in the 30's "Sci-Fi") and Horror. Bill Warren, an exceptionally talented writer, did a two volume series on Sci-Fi films of the 50's (and early 60's) called KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES (a homage to the final words in Howard Hawk's THE THING). It is a fascinating read because in those volumes the distinction between Horror and Sci-Fi are made clear. In a film like THE WEREWOLF, well, the werewolf was made that way through injections of a formula developed by a couple of scientists. Comapre that to the 1941 Universal The WolF Man, where Lawrence Talbot is bitten by a werewolf and thus changes into one when the moon is full. The scientific application of a chemical formula to make one a werewolf is properly classified as Sci-Fi. The supernatural conversion of human into werewolf by being bitten by a wererwolf is Horror.

 

My inclination leans towards the very inncaurate perception, that in the eyes of whoever makes these determinations at OS, Horror must have gore and slashing and maiming and such. In the film industry this is a subset of horror known as slasher, slice and dice, etc. If the EC stories contain vampires and werewolves and zonbies and animated rotted corpses, why are they not also Supernatural?

 

I am gonna send this, in a more elaborate and detailled form, to OS for their consideration. When I do I will also post what I sent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hear, hear! Eerie #1 is the earliest Horror book I've ever seen. If that's not horror I don't know what is. I sure love EC's, but that doesn't mean they deserve a title if that's not how history happened.

 

You go POV! thumbsup2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After MLJ, then Centaur, I'm going after pre-code horror! To me, that'd be the ultimate collection of comics. Nothing newer than 1955...F Wertham... insane.gifinsane.gifinsane.gif

 

That's what I'm talking about! I have noth Parade Of Pleasure and Seduction of The Innocent. I like to take my horror comics and stage batlles against those two! grin.gif27_laughing.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After MLJ, then Centaur, I'm going after pre-code horror! To me, that'd be the ultimate collection of comics. Nothing newer than 1955...F Wertham... insane.gifinsane.gifinsane.gif

 

That's what I'm talking about! I have noth Parade Of Pleasure and Seduction of The Innocent. I like to take my horror comics and stage batlles against those two! grin.gif27_laughing.gif

 

The most ridiculous thing I can think of is the SOTI publication. My 11 year old nephew plays Grand Theft Auto-Vice City. We're supposed to have evolved as a society? Which one do you think is more violent? (Forget about that Baseball story in Haunt of Fear before you answer)... insane.gif

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 11 year old nephew plays Grand Theft Auto-Vice City. We're supposed to have evolved as a society?

 

I gotta say, Shield, you touched on a sore topic with me. Just watching some of the video game commercials on tv makes me shudder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you guys haven't already, go watch "Bowling for Columbine" before you pass judgement on violence in videogames. Also, read "Masters of Doom" by David Kushner and "From Barbie to Mortal Kombat" by prof. Henry Jenkins of MIT. This isn't a black-and-white issue.

 

While I think that games like GTA and Unreal and Doom/Quake are very graphic in their depiction of violence, I'm not convinced they've ever directly led to something like the tragedy at Columbine. Yes, those two losers (isn't it great that we've already forgotten their names?) played Doom, but they also bowled - oh, and they drank water occasionally.

 

I'd never let my 10-year old daughter play something like GTA, but I also wouldn't let her watch Alien or The Ring. Doesn't mean those aren't legitimate art forms, or at the least legitimate forms of entertainment - for the right audiences.

 

"Bowling for Columbine" will blow you away - figuratively speaking, of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, got off-topic for a moment there... back to the subject at hand...

 

Yes! Yes! The powers that be have once again conspired to short the little guy - in this case Avon, one of the great underrated publishers! ECs are awesome, I love 'em, but that doesn't mean they should garner accolades they don't deserve! I'm beginning to think the whole OS guide is a LIE.... I've heard that the prices in the damned thing can't be trusted either! sheesh...what's the world coming to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, technically these are the 1st 2 horror comics

1943 Classics Illustrated Dr. Jekyl

1944 Classics Illustrated 3 Mysteries

the flayed hand story in 3 mysteries is pretty damn intense....

 

It is a difficult distinction to verbalize and hopefully someone who feels the same way can better express it, but I'll try and hope someone betters me.

 

The Classics horror stories were adaptations of literature, and being such, there was no real originality in what they were offering. The titles, characters and plots already existed and were widely known. They could almost be considered "highly abridged reprints".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is tricky territory to be sure. In terms of what cover to cover horror comic 1st appeared its the classics, but the eerie is really the first full on original horror comic. I am not sure where the honor lies, but classics do always get the short end of things. Have you seen 3 mysteries? its pretty rough! its pure precode horror in spots, right there on the page for little Johnny to be horrified by.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is tricky territory to be sure. In terms of what cover to cover horror comic 1st appeared its the classics, but the eerie is really the first full on original horror comic. I am not sure where the honor lies, but classics do always get the short end of things. Have you seen 3 mysteries? its pretty rough!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is tricky territory to be sure. In terms of what cover to cover horror comic 1st appeared its the classics, but the eerie is really the first full on original horror comic. I am not sure where the honor lies, but classics do always get the short end of things. Have you seen 3 mysteries? its pretty rough! its pure precode horror in spots, right there on the page for little Johnny to be horrified by.

 

I am a fan of Guy de Maupassant and agree the story itself is on the dark side. But again, this book offers a Conan Doyle Holmes story (Sign of the 4), a de Maupassant story (Flayed Hand) and Poe's Mureders In The Rue Morgue. Again, it is difficult to use this example as an acknowledge of a first pre-code horror comic due to their prior publication in book form.

 

It is certainly tricky territory, no doubt about it! But I think when we talk about "firsts" in comic books they should be "firster" than these. insane.gif

 

I can see the Calssics Illustrated Jekyl being called the "first horror adaptation" and would be just fine with that. Similar sentiments about 3 Mysteries. But I think the bottom line is that these tales were not written for the comic book market, and thus, we must look further for the "real deal". grin.gifhi.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I personally would rather see it be the avon eerie, i am speaking more as a devils advocate. have you seen any of the horror in Yellowjacket? I know they don't count as horror comics, but 1st horror story? i never saw any of those. What about crown comics #1, its got a horror cover, but never saw the inside of that either. confused-smiley-013.gif I am all for Avon & ACG (1st ongoing horror) getting the brunt of the kudos. Amazing Mysteries & Marvel tales pre date EC too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know they don't count as horror comics, but 1st horror story?

 

Man - if we are gonna be talking about 1st horror story I think you'd agree there is much to discuss! grin.gif And I confess a lot more to discuss than I can because I swear - if I really start getting into those pure GA books with horror stories in them, I will NEVER complete my pre-code horror type set!

 

But you know? Talk about them please! I will make notes and probably start a sub-type set! 893applaud-thumb.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pov,

 

Like you, I've never considered the EC's as the first horror comics, even though Overstreet lists them that way.

 

But even if Overstreet lists a number of the other contenders as weird/supernatural, the entry on Captain America #75 (10/49) says "horror cover/stories", which would predate the EC's as a "horror" comic by Overstreet's terminology. (Unless, that is, it has a horror cover and stories but isn't a horror comic. ????)

 

Not only that, Overstreet lists Amazing Mysteries #33 (7/49) as "horror format".

 

"The Thing in the Vault" (AM#33) and "The Thing in the Chest" (CA #75) sure sound like horror stories to me. I wonder how different those two stories are?

 

I'll have to dig out my copies and read them to see if they are horror, weird, or supernatural, although I don't know where the distinctions are.`

 

By the way, I recently got a copy of Adventures into the Unknown #3 which has a pre-EC "supernatural" story. Have you seen that.

 

Gary J.

ECFANMAN

Link to comment
Share on other sites