Action comics 1 in heritage again!

[herc2000]

It just gets me when I see this comic, how did it not get restored grade?

"very minimal restoration" oh ok then, but why did it not get a qualified grade then as it has whole punches through the comic?

[fantastic_four]

Heritage's search isn't working for me...got a link? Not too easy to answer your question without seeing the book in question.

 

To post the link: right-click in your browser's "Address" field, click "Copy", and when you're writing your message text, right click in the "Post" textbox and select "Paste".

[rob_react]

It's a convergence of two recurring stories around here. It's a Universal GD+ with "Very minor amount of glue and very minor amount of color touch on cover" AND it's got holes punched through it.

 

The answers are- CGC reserves the right to put Golden Age books with extremely minor amounts of color touch and/or glue in a blue holder. This is in writing on the back of each end every CGC holder. It didn't receive a qualified grade, because, Qualified grades are reserved for high grade copies with one major flaw. Not beaters with a million little flaws and one major flaw.

 

Here's the book... Action Comics #1 (DC, 1938) CGC GD+ 2.5 Cream to off-white pages

[nearmint]

It didn't receive a qualified grade, because, Qualified grades are reserved for high grade copies with one major flaw.

 

Or two flaws, at least in CGCs early days. My Thrilling #33 received a qualified 9.4 because of tanning on the interior covers and a tiny chip out of the top left corner of the back cover. Maybe those flaws weren't consider "major" and that's what allowed it to fall into the qualified category.

 

I've often wondered what grade they would have given it had they gone with the blue label. 8.0? 8.5?

[mrwoogieman]

At least this Good + looks like one, not like the other Good + copy that had the 3x4 chunk out of the top of the cover and foxing all over it.

[AllTop8Me]

It just gets me when I see this comic, how did it not get restored grade?

"very minimal restoration" oh ok then, but why did it not get a qualified grade then as it has whole punches through the comic?

 

I don't mean to be obnoxious, but I don't understand why someone gets up before 8 a.m. on a Sunday to get incensed about this. CGC's function is to provide an overall grade to a book. If the book's grade has been enhanced by restoration, CGC notes that by stating that the grade is "apparent," explains what work was done and roughly estimates how extensive the work was. For the illiterate, they even change the color of the label to hammer home that the grade is only an apparent one. The purpose of the "apparent" moniker/purple label is not to stigmatize the book, but to note that the grade would have been lower but for the restoration.

 

Now here we have a book that CGC is saying bears such minimal restoration that even without it the book would have received the same grade. CGC describes what the restoration entailed. If someone so obsessively despises restored books that one wishes to avoid, or bid low on, this one because of the work, one has all the information necessary to do so. Why then is it imperative that CGC, additionally, add this book to the blacklist (or purplelist, as the case may be)? Just to reinforce this hobby's irrational prejudice against restored or conserved collectibles? That rare and important books are going unconserved, or are having restoration literally ripped out of them, is tragic enough to those of us concerned about this branch of Americana. But to demand that CGC lend its imprimatur to gratuitously disparage books to no one's gain is borderline immoral.

[Mushroom]

I don't know what shill you are but well said.

[garthgantu]

First, isn't it possible that the original poster of this thread lives in a different time zone, and that it was 2 p.m. in their part of the world when they posted? Even if the poster is listed as hailing from the East Coast of the U.S., isn't it possible he/she was traveling at the time they posted this ?

 

Second, AllTop, nice use of some $2 words, but the bottom line seems to me to be this: That CGC has a somewhat arbitrary methodology for assigning the 'restored' label on books, and they're not keen to acknowledge this. Yes, they'll provide the occasional blanket statement about "CGC reserves the right to assign a universal (unrestored) grade to books with very slight restoration, under some circumstances," and they'll also go into a bit more detail on a particular book if you want the graders' notes. But if you really wanna know how they make such determinations, you have to do a lot of digging, and/or spend your life on these message boards.

 

I think it's perfectly reasonably to question a given 'restored' or 'universal' label in an effort to better understand CGC's rationale on this point. Once you get a book back with "drop of glue on spine" in the notes, a PLOD, and zero ability to see the 'restoration' in question without cracking the slab, you'll have some idea why this issue can be a very touchy one.

[AllTop8Me]

Garthgantu, the crux of my argument is that we are buying and selling and collecting comic books, not CGC labels. CGC provides information. Various collectors attach varying degrees of importance to that information and the market reflects that. A purple label is not bad in and of itself - except to people who treat this not as a hobby involving comic books but a ponzi scheme that involves flipping books to the most gullible sucker. It's hard to feel sorry for people who treat a hobby built around childhood nostalgia this way, and even harder to understand why someone would be so churlish as to demand not a blue label for his own book but a purple or green one for someone else's.

 

"Drop of glue on spine." Was that you who sold the Suspense 8 (CGC 7.5 Slight(A)) for $800 a while back? If I didn't have a high grade copy myself I would have bid on it. Whoever bought it wisely looked beyond the color of the label. Whoever did not got what they deserved. Or, in this case, did not get what they did not deserve.

[herc2000]

Hi there, thanks Garth, and yes you were right, I live in a different time zone! Maybe Alltop8me never knew such a thing existed? Guess you've been reading tooo many comics, and forgot about the real world, . Now I have seen, many comics with a dot, and I mean dot colour touch and have been giving apparent grades. Yet if the dot was there or not, it would not make no difference to the grade. Now Action comics 1 is considered the most valuable comic of all, it guides for $38'000 in GD, had it been given a purple label it's value would be much less don't you think? You say we are buying CGC comics, and not CGC labels, well won't you please go and tell that to a CGC 9.8 Hulk 181 and a CGC 9.4 Hulk 181, in some cases with these books you will see no difference except for the label (especially in modern comics) but the prices will tell you different. You say Garth sold a 7.5 restored copy of Suspense 8 for $800, if it were in a blue label, what do you think it would have sold for then? It guides for $2500 in 8.0.

[garthgantu]

Just for the sake of clarity, I didn't sell the Suspense 8 in question, I'm just familiar with the phenomenon via other similarly graded books.

 

AllTop, I agree wholeheartedly with the ideas that:

1) people should buy the book and not the label

2) many, perhaps most, restored books are unfairly demonized by at least a portion of the comic book collecting/investing/dealing communities.

 

Be that as it may, CGC has made the case that restoration is identifiable in basically all cases, and that resto sufficiently alters the 'natural state' of a comic book to warrant a different-colored label. That different-colored label has become akin to the scarlet letter in hawthorne's eponymous classic. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, I'm just saying it's the case currently.

 

On the one hand, I think it's very important for people to know if a book is restored. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that having CGC as the 'official arbiter' of restoration is really beneficial to the industry. Time will tell, perhaps.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think that in the long run, comic books - especially those that are 50+ years old - with moderate restoration will regain some of the value lost in the past 10 years or so...that books currently selling for 10 or 20% of guide in grade will sell for closer to 50%. This may take years or even decades, but at some point the number of unrestored Superman 1s will outweigh the demand sufficiently to raise the value the of restored copies, to cite just one example.

[lyriacomicexchange-migrati]

[Timely]

You guys...the whole restoration topic has always been hard to deal with in comics. Restoration in almost every other collectible is accepted. In the car market, it is actually preferred! A newly restored Ferrari will ALWAYS outsell an unrestored one.

 

The reason RESTORED comics have a bad name is because the buyer was always uninformed and taken advantage of, especially in the years of 1980-2000 when the books were worth serious money. So restored comics got a bad reputation and no one wanted them, no one knew what work was done or how extensive the repairs. Seems like things have not changed much, even in the advent of CGC and their restoration detection and description. Pitty.

 

Timely

[sfilosa]

What I want to know, is how does everyone feel about the BLUE LABEL book that has Minor Restoration (i.e. small glue on spine, very small color touch, etc.)?

 

If we assume a slightly restored Purple Label Golden-Age book would get 30% of guide (which is just an approximation), how much for the BLUE LABEL (with restoration)?

 

I see a couple of nice GA books in Heritage Auctions that are from Pedigree collections that have the BLUE LABEL (but with restoration).

 

 

[stagedoorjohnny]

 

I agree that it is a pity, or opportunity if you have the gumption. There are some gorgeous purples out there of some real tough books with only slight professional resto. And they can be had for fifty cents on the dollar or even less sometimes. I recently purchased my first restored book ever, and it is one of my favorites in my collection.

 

Stagedoorjohnny

[garthgantu]

What I want to know, is how does everyone feel about the BLUE LABEL book that has Minor Restoration (i.e. small glue on spine, very small color touch, etc.)?

 

I think it's a huge mistake on CGC's part. It undermines their position as 'arbiters of restoration' because you and I cannot go to a convention, look at a raw book, find a drop of glue on the upper staple, and know whether it's going to get the PLOD or not. Yes, you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to resto, but CGC's "line" is pretty nebulous. An outside observer, after reviewing say 100 books that got the PLOD and 100 books that got the Blue label with "very minor restoration: minor color touch at spine" or such like, could only conclude that it seems to boil down to the graders' dispositions on the days the books were graded. There's very little rhyme or reason to it, at least from the outside looking in, as it were.

 

But let's say CGC just decided that ANY amount of color touch, drop of glue, etc. qualifies as restoration and the book gets the PLOD. Then what about books where a drop of glue or paint inadvertantly spilled on the book - is that still resto? You'd still have a line to draw somewhere...

[goldust40]

That rare and important books are going unconserved, or are having restoration literally ripped out of them, is tragic enough to those of us concerned about this branch of Americana. But to demand that CGC lend its imprimatur to gratuitously disparage books to no one's gain is borderline immoral.

 

Good lord man, this is the most sanctimonious and absurd post I've ever seen. Firstly you assume that the first poster is from the U.S. Which he evidently isn't, so he did not get up early because he lives on these boards. Secondly you infer that he is incapable of reading a CGC label. Then you extrapolate this bizarre notion about how the entire hobby is being undermined because he DARES to query CGC's choice of label color.

 

You then amazingly say that a book can be "enhanced" by restoration and that there should be no stigma attached to a restored book, yet at the end of your post you quite clearly state that demanding that CGC put a purple label on a book that has had resto done to it disparages the book. Why? CGC is only saying it's restored. You said at the top of your post that there is nothing wrong with that. At the end of your post, a Purple label is tantamount to cultural heresy.

 

No-one criticised restoration per se. Or it's disclosure. And no-one, except YOU, mentioned anything about de-restoring comics. Also no-one demonized restored books. The only thing brought to book was the way the specific grading and restoration on this PARTICULAR ITEM was handled and it's interpretation by an established grading committee. For christ's sake.

Yes, it's a children's pastime, and central in all our hearts and so on but it's also a BUSINESS. Like it or not. The difference between a blue and purple label is essentially thousands of dollars - that's the marketplace. The buyer of this book will probably not open the slab as it's too expensive, anyway. At the end of the day it's up to the individual.

 

I do feel that CGC has conceivably fudged the issue here, at least a little. If the book has been restored, make it clear for those who prefer unrestored items. A Purple label does not aesthetically devalue a comic. It's not immoral, just a question of CONSISTENCY to do this, regardless of the book. The hole punches are acceptable on a G+. But if there's been any work done to "enhance" a book, then at least have the words in larger letters for all to see.

 

Robreact said everything that needed to be said anyway about this - CGC do make it clear enough in their fine print. I'm only taking issue with CGC as it doesn't go into any great detail on Purple labels as to exactly what work was done. It usually says "Restoration includes etc." The label doesn't tell the buyer where the resto ends or it's extent.

 

God bless!

[Timely]

All that you said here makes sense to me Goldust except the last part. CGC cannot write an entire paragragh on the labels explaining all the restoration in detail. I think the slight-moderate-extensive label along with the type of repairs works fine for most of us.

 

Timely

[goldust40]

Good point. Any more info would be a bit of a squeeze. I was only concerned with what may have been left out - and you can't add another label to the slab, as it'd hide a portion of the book.

[FlComicFan]

I think the books that get the blue lable are likely the ones where the glue and color touch didnt improve the books grade I tried to get an answer from Mark Haspel at a show but it seemed kind of evasive. Basically it boiled down too that many of the pedigreed Gold books had very minor work done and to put a purple lable on a Church copy because someone dotted it with a marker 20 years ago would pretty much kill the market for those books and any chances of CGC seeing too many of them getting slabbed.