The Dark Knight

[detective35]

FYI,

 

Mainstream means a movie that people (adults) that enjoy all genre's of movies would enjoy, not just kids. In fact, when reading an article by the director of the Dark Knight, he was aiming for an adult audience, not necessarily for young kids and not just the comic book audience, but a serious movie for the entire mainstream (that is, even those who do not usually go to comic book movies...and he has been successful).

As a teacher, I read the reviews on the Dark Knight, and as a parent, I would research the content of the film ahead of time, and certainly might not take any young kids to see it, if I thought that it was too dark in nature.

 

Dwight

[seank]

 

Heck, it's was hardly even close to Saving Private Ryan or Platoon.

But as war movies go, Dark Knight was pretty darn close.

 

Not Apocalypse Now.

Brando would eat Heath Ledger up as the Joker. In fact, he might have actually eaten him up. Once again, I loved all the logic in Apocalypse Now.

 

Not Clockwork Orange.

With its liberal use of the cod piece I think Dark Knight was every bit the movie that Clockwork was.

 

 

Saving Private Ryan: I thought it was an outstanding movie, but it has two great storytelling flaws - first, there's a big point of view glitch. Story starts and ends with Ryan, but he's not part of any of the significant action; and second, it's a deus ex machina ending. It would be the same as having Superman fly in to save Batman at the last minute instead of Batman using his wits to save himself.

 

Clockwork Orange: (One of my favorite movies)

 

"What's it going to be then, eh?"

 

There was me, that is Batman, and my three droogs, that is Green Lantern, Superman, and Flash, Flash being really fast, and we sat in the JLA Satellite making up our rassoodocks what to with the evening, a flip dark chill winter though dry.

[MrBedrock]

 

There was me, that is Batman, and my three droogs, that is Green Lantern, Superman, and Flash, Flash being really fast, and we sat in the JLA Satellite making up our rassoodocks what to with the evening, a flip dark chill winter though dry.

You made me spit out my lumptiks of toast!

[agro23]

Dark Knight was not Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Yeah, Raiders was too realistic. All that realism bored me silly.

 

it was not Jaws.

The logic in Jaws was impeccible. Big Sharks eating whole boats! Again, too much realism. I couldn't stand it!

 

it was not The Sting.

I am not sure what Gordon Sumner has to do with the Dark Knight movie.

 

Heck, it's was hardly even close to Saving Private Ryan or Platoon.

But as war movies go, Dark Knight was pretty darn close.

 

Not Apocalypse Now.

Brando would eat Heath Ledger up as the Joker. In fact, he might have actually eaten him up. Once again, I loved all the logic in Apocalypse Now.

 

Not Clockwork Orange.

With its liberal use of the cod piece I think Dark Knight was every bit the movie that Clockwork was.

 

Not even 2001.

And that is a good thing! Was there ever a more boring "classic". I've seen it three times at the theatre and had a great nap each and every time.

 

 

Aliens? Way better. Terminator? Also better. T2? Way better and it even had noticeable flaws.

I am glad you think so. Will you please let me know which movies I should go see in the future? I don't ever want a repeat of the time I wasted on that crappy Batman movie. I actually liked it a lot until you told me I shouldn't. Thanks for setting me straight! (thumbs u

 

 

I was hoping I wasn't the only one at least slightly miffed about agro's posts.

 

"Was there ever a more boring "classic". I've seen it three times at the theatre and had a great nap each and every time."

No, you're the only one miffed. You're taking it personally. Bedrock was making fun of my comparison choices.

[Cimm]

Dark Knight... I watched it... I LIKED it!

[agro23]

Saving Private Ryan: I thought it was an outstanding movie, but it has two great storytelling flaws - first, there's a big point of view glitch. Story starts and ends with Ryan, but he's not part of any of the significant action;

I think he was simply serving as narrator bookending the tale. It's his version of events telling the other people's story kinda like D ick Winters telling the Band of Brothers story even though half the war he's attached to HQ and not in the thick of the action.

 

and second, it's a deus ex machina ending. It would be the same as having Superman fly in to save Batman at the last minute instead of Batman using his wits to save himself.

Except that basically nobody gets saved. I think he was trying to wrap up his story quickly. I'm not sure it's a let-down ending or if it's a genre homage that they survived the attack, "but at what cost?" sort of thing.

 

And speaking of good superhero movies, the first Superman was nothing to sneeze at in its time. We always forget that one.

[agro23]

Dark Knight... I watched it... I LIKED it!

I didn't hate it. I just won't be naming my kids Heath or having DK4Eva tattooed on me.

[Cimm]

Dark Knight... I watched it... I LIKED it!

I didn't hate it. I just won't be naming my kids Heath or having DK4Eva tattooed on me.

 

 

Me either

[skybolt]

All I can say is that the recent Batman, Spider-Man and Iron Man movies have done the the characters proud, while the Fantastic Four basically got the shaft!

 

Dark Knight, Spider-Man 2 and Iron Man were all phenomenal!

[Miraclo]

Dark Knight... I watched it... I LIKED it!

I didn't hate it. I just won't be naming my kids Heath or having DK4Eva tattooed on me.

 

Too late for me

[seank]

Saving Private Ryan: I thought it was an outstanding movie, but it has two great storytelling flaws - first, there's a big point of view glitch. Story starts and ends with Ryan, but he's not part of any of the significant action;

 

I think he was simply serving as narrator bookending the tale. It's his version of events telling the other people's story kinda like D ick Winters telling the Band of Brothers story even though half the war he's attached to HQ and not in the thick of the action.

 

 

It's still bad POV even if another Hollywood project did the same thing. Look at Titanic which had a similar framing sequence. Where Spielberg blew it, Cameron got it right. Rose was present in the Titanic action and the bits where she wasn't present, she could have gotten from Jack. Spielberg got sloppy for a cheap emotional hit.

[agro23]

Saving Private Ryan: I thought it was an outstanding movie, but it has two great storytelling flaws - first, there's a big point of view glitch. Story starts and ends with Ryan, but he's not part of any of the significant action;

 

I think he was simply serving as narrator bookending the tale. It's his version of events telling the other people's story kinda like D ick Winters telling the Band of Brothers story even though half the war he's attached to HQ and not in the thick of the action.

 

 

It's still bad POV even if another Hollywood project did the same thing. Look at Titanic which had a similar framing sequence. Where Spielberg blew it, Cameron got it right. Rose was present in the Titanic action and the bits where she wasn't present, she could have gotten from Jack. Spielberg got sloppy for a cheap emotional hit.

I don't know if you've noticed but Spielberg has been getting sloppy with all his recent stuff. Well, except maybe Munich but I'm still digesting that film even though I've seen it or parts of it like half a dozen times on HBO.

[Aman619]

why is that 'sloppy'? I didnt have a problem with Ryan not being the lead during the film. I liked the 'surprise' ending. and found it incredibly moving, especially when the lights went on in the theatre and , seeing all the 65-75 year old men with new eyes as guys who went thru hell, and not a bunch of slow moving geezers.

 

Spielber set out to honor his father and their genereration. I think he succeeded.

 

But, after the opening scenes of DDay, I thought the film meandered into a series of Sgt Rock WW2 adventures. Well done, sure, but a stroll thru war movie cliche for the most part. Being saved by the air force didnt bother me, Seing Hanks die was powerful.

 

"Earn it."

[seank]

why is that 'sloppy'?

 

Opening: Old Ryan at graveyard in France. It's the first part of a framing sequence. This implies that the WWII sequences are his recollection.

 

Entire middle of movie: Tom Hanks, et al, land at Normandy and have adventures trying to find Ryan. At the end of the movie, they find Ryan, who has no idea of what happened to these guys.

 

Closing: Old Ryan again at graveyard. End of framing sequence.

 

It's sloppy POV because Ryan has no part of any significant action in the movie. The framing sequence is merely there for a cheap emotional hit. He wasn't present for any of the story, nor, if I recall correctly, did anyone have the opportunity to tell him the events.

 

Compare with Titanic in which old Rose is present in the opening framing sequence. The middle of the movie is her recollection, then the end of the movie goes back to her in our time. I'm certain I could think of other examples which use this technique if pressed. But the plain fact is that Spielberg used it improperly.

 

And that's not even getting into the lousy ending with the airplanes. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Titanic is a better movie than Saving Private Ryan. From a technical POV analysis, so is Dark Knight.

[Miraclo]

Batman vs. Woody. I like it.

[agro23]

It's sloppy POV because Ryan has no part of any significant action in the movie. The framing sequence is merely there for a cheap emotional hit. He wasn't present for any of the story, nor, if I recall correctly, did anyone have the opportunity to tell him the events.

To be fair, Ryan was at DDay just as I recall he was parachuted in or some such and it wasn't shown. And he was at the last battle holding the bridge. He was the one told to earn it. But it's wasn't as tight as it could have been. And let's not even get started on War of the Worlds for sloppy.

[Aman619]

why is that 'sloppy'?

 

Opening: Old Ryan at graveyard in France. It's the first part of a framing sequence. This implies that the WWII sequences are his recollection.

 

Entire middle of movie: Tom Hanks, et al, land at Normandy and have adventures trying to find Ryan. At the end of the movie, they find Ryan, who has no idea of what happened to these guys.

 

Closing: Old Ryan again at graveyard. End of framing sequence.

 

It's sloppy POV because Ryan has no part of any significant action in the movie. The framing sequence is merely there for a cheap emotional hit. He wasn't present for any of the story, nor, if I recall correctly, did anyone have the opportunity to tell him the events.

 

Compare with Titanic in which old Rose is present in the opening framing sequence. The middle of the movie is her recollection, then the end of the movie goes back to her in our time. I'm certain I could think of other examples which use this technique if pressed. But the plain fact is that Spielberg used it improperly.

 

And that's not even getting into the lousy ending with the airplanes. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Titanic is a better movie than Saving Private Ryan. From a technical POV analysis, so is Dark Knight.

 

good analysis. maybe you read scripts for a living?

 

When I saw it, I completely forgot the opening at the gravesite, so I was surprised (as I said) when the kid was Ryan, guess I wasnt paying attention! But I still dont have an issue with Ryan bookending the tale. The surviving soldiers would have told him their adventures looking for him after Hanks died And even if Ryan never knew all that, we the audience were shown the events for OUR benefit.

 

But, yeah, Titanic was tighter with Rose telling HER own story... for me, though, Titanic worked as a tour de force visual feat, and a likable gutsy poor kid (fish out of water) cliche story. Not the most original idea right?

 

I guess since Spielberg is so talented overall, his lapses are considered sloppy in the business. When you are so far ahead on points, one tends to get sloppy in the late innings perhaps

[Cimm]

I fail to see how that framing sequence was sloppy... Old Ryan's tears (the aforementioned "cheap" emotional hit) were for remembrance of all that was sacrificed so that he, his family, and the world as we know it could come to be... and the planes strafing the tank to save him were pretty representational of how America was viewed by the European countries directly after WWII... the country's air power that came just in the nick of time to save us all from the Thousand Year Reich...

 

my

[seank]

 

 

good analysis. maybe you read scripts for a living?

 

When I saw it, I completely forgot the opening at the gravesite, so I was surprised (as I said) when the kid was Ryan, guess I wasnt paying attention! But I still dont have an issue with Ryan bookending the tale. The surviving soldiers would have told him their adventures looking for him after Hanks died And even if Ryan never knew all that, we the audience were shown the events for OUR benefit.

 

 

I write fiction, have had short stories published at the professional level, and was a student at Clarion West in 2001. Currently working on a YA novel.

 

I don't recall any of the soldiers surviving, but I saw the movie a long time ago.

 

To get back closer to topic, I saw "My Fair Lady" at the local musical theater last night. During intermission, I told my wife that Hennry Higgins is the same character type as Batman and Colonel Pickering is Alfred. She rolled her eyes, but couldn't argue with the analysis.

[seank]

I fail to see how that framing sequence was sloppy... Old Ryan's tears (the aforementioned "cheap" emotional hit) were for remembrance of all that was sacrificed so that he, his family, and the world as we know it could come to be... and the planes strafing the tank to save him were pretty representational of how America was viewed by the European countries directly after WWII... the country's air power that came just in the nick of time to save us all from the Thousand Year Reich...

 

my

 

To clarify something, the old Ryan sequences were a cheap emotional hit in the context of Spielberg's POV, from a technical story-telling sense. I've studied WWII quite a bit, and hae a huge respect for the sacrifice that generation made. My point is that Spielberg took the easy route when he made that movie.