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Nobody is Buying

Started by SignatureSelect,

186 posts in this topic

Pirate

Pirate

Posted
Posted

i agree that the market is saturated. The economy has probably caused a lot of people to sell books they never intended to so that has poured tons more SS, Blue Labels, raws etc into the market. . It's a buyers market, just not enough buyers.

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Joel Elad

Joel Elad

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The buying market is wonderful if you have some cash to spend... :) Some of my customers have gotten tremendous deals from stuff I've unearthed from my storage locker and collection. And thanks to the power of competition on eBay, some people have paid way too much.

 

I was more of a create then resell guy, but have been taking on more and more of other people's books to become a hybrid guy. Pirate, what Kris is referring to, I believe is the following: At current rates, if a witness only takes in books for other people, the income generated from that is not enough to cover the witness's time, travel costs, etc, to make it worthwhile. The addition of getting extra books signed for resale makes it worthwhile, and I can testify to this 100%. If you are able to survive by just taking books for others to shows, then keep doing it. In my opinion, most of us can't do that. If it wasn't for the Savage Dragon #145's and extra opportunities that came up from CGC, WonderCon would have been break even for me. I can't run to shows and take 3 days outta my life just to break even. We can debate this forever, and I have no interest in picking a fight.

 

Hmm, that's not true, I would probably love to pick a fight, but don't have the time or desire to be booted from the boards... :)

 

NYComics, raising rates is not a bad idea, I think, but I'm sure the people who pay witnesses will argue with that statement... :)

 

Keep those Harrison Ford requests coming, everyone else! I'd love to see this happen. :)

 

Joel

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
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...how much money people have paid in the last few months for books like Amazing Spider-Man #583 or Savage Dragon #145, I am convinced people do still have money, they are just more selective on what they spend it on.

 

You hit the nail on the head there. Not only more selective, but setting limits on those items even when they come up. I'm really trying to get a Savage Dragon #145 Wondercon Variant, but I'm not going to pay the prices people are paying for a raw book. Don't get me started on the slabbed books.......

 

......to the point that if I wasn't the very first person with that signed variant, or it was more than a few days after the show, I had to sell it at a LOSS from what I paid, and I enjoyed a volume discount so my cost was low!

 

I'm actually shocked at this. I know to start looking immediately after a show, but I keep looking for as long as it takes for me to find the books I want. If it's a week, SUPER! If it's three months, that's good too, and sometimes I even save a buck or two.

 

.....but after stores like Colossus Comics rolled out their "preorder any regular book in 9.8 for $19.99" program, I think they killed the aftermarket price for unsigned 9.8 modern books, where people didn't want to pay $60-80 each for a 9.8 (which seemed to be harder to get years ago) anymore.

 

I hate to say it, but the cheap new books brought me to the "dark side" anyway. I wouldn't touch CGC books prior to them becoming cheap through dealers like Colossus. I thought it was ridiculous to pay $60-80 for a two month old book. Variants?......maybe....... But the cheap books drew me into the market and learning about CGC and more about the hobby in general kept me here.

 

I've said it many times before, but in all honesty CGC SS rekindled my love for the hobby and has kept me interested for the last couple of years. THANK YOU to all the Witnesses that I've dealt directly with and even indirectly through eBayers or whatever. You guys have kept me in a hobby that's been a big part of more than half my life!

 

 

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MedicAR

MedicAR

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Posted
i agree that the market is saturated. The economy has probably caused a lot of people to sell books they never intended to so that has poured tons more SS, Blue Labels, raws etc into the market. . It's a buyers market, just not enough buyers.

 

I just got a fantastic book from a boardie on eBay that I wouldn't have been able to touch probably just six months ago. It leaves me feeling elated and depressed at the same time. I got it at a steal, but did it hurt the other party? And will the financial conditions prevent them from getting such cool books in the future? Or, regardless of finances, will they just become sour and not get/sell great items anymore?

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MedicAR

MedicAR

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I'm not a witness so my opinion might not really be relevant, but i think that witneses through their own awesomness create these problems of books not selling, i mean its like waht was noted before, all these private signings for Gene Colon, Stan Lee, John Romita, Vess, Jack Davis, Frazetta, they make getting a sig on the book not as rare because a lot of those books will be around now, and most of the people interested in those books probobly took part in the signing

 

I agree that the signatures aren't as rare anymore, but if I hadn't been able to participate in some of these, I'd still be trying to chase them when they surface on the secondary(?) market. You may be right, the scarcity (or lack thereof) may be a factor. I just slacked off on buying because I had participated in some signings and it has cost me more than a little money. Again, to the Witnesses that put all the effort into these, I'm not complaining! They just came pretty fast and have left me fairly tapped out right now.

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spideyfan88

spideyfan88

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you know, things liek the frazetta signing are a great hybrid relationship, the sigs are expensive enough at 300$ to limit how much hits the market, but the avialability is there for wintesses to take on nice requests. i guess the same happens as Stan's sig gets more expensive to get, it limits the amount of people who get it

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Pirate

Pirate

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Posted
. Pirate, what Kris is referring to, I believe is the following: At current rates, if a witness only takes in books for other people, the income generated from that is not enough to cover the witness's time, travel costs, etc, to make it worthwhile. The addition of getting extra books signed for resale makes it worthwhile, and I can testify to this 100%.

 

Joel

 

 

All I can tell you is go to a show or don't. Don't lump all witnesses into a statement like buy my books or i won't take your subs like Kris did. It sends a bad message. Personally I pick shows I'm going to work at (getting ss) and shows I'm going to have fun. Unless you are a witness, a lot of people don't realize the work involved.

 

I have two shows coming up in April and decided not to take mail in subs for them as they are close (30 minutes and 2.5 hours) and I'm just meeting up with some friends and witnessing a few books for them while I shop and look for art.

 

I go to shows that are geographically close so I can drive (no flying all over the country). I stay in the motel 6 when convenient and look for deals at shows that can recoup costs. I guess I have the hobby part separated, so thankfully I don't depend on a show going well to eat.

 

I have known Kris for quite a while and know the frustration of not being able to move books. I just don't want customers getting the wrong impression and was speaking up for Myself and my dealings with SS.

 

Ok long windedness over.

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted
I wouldn't mind paying more for witness fees. Seeing (actually hearing) what you guys go through to get to shows, then to sit in lines, is worth the added cost to me.

 

 

The last few months have been very enlightening to me on this front as well. I simply don't make it out to big shows. In addition, I sincerely believed that at the really big shows (SDCC, NYCC, Chicago) that CGC had deals in place so the Witnesses didn't have to wait in line, they simply came to the back of the booth or whatever. I had no idea that the Witnesses were actually waiting in line like every other schmoe. And window bags.....man, I am sorry again for not providing those for the Witnesses, I just didn't know.......

:sorry:

 

I am trying hard to do much better and make things easier for those of you kind enough to do my leg work for me!

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str8rcn

str8rcn

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I'll reply here mainly for some feedback for you witnesses.

 

I have recently decided to focus my collecting to SS books and thanks to many of you have started a nice little collection.I may not represent the majority but I am still buying.

 

The appeal of SS books to me is that they are unique.We may both have a WWH Aspen 9.8 signed by Turner but as close as they might seem mine is different than yours and that to me makes mine special.

 

There have been more SS books available but so many of them seem to be an undesirable book signed by a not so popular person.Stick with the more popular people for books to sell for profit.

 

Most of the SS books are a deal to me since I don't have the opportunity to get to any major cons and once you factor in travel,admission,signing fees and grading fees a Stan Lee or Mcfarlane SS book for $100 is a deal and I understand that but a lot of buyers (especially on ebay) don't.

 

Once again just some hopefully helpful feedback for you witnesses I have noticed that actor signed books seem to always sell and bring a good price.Heck I have one of Joel's Heroes books in My Ebay watch list right now.Also lower grade key books with a good sig sell well.Example I can't seem to win a mid to low grade ASM #129 Stan Lee SS or even a mid grade ASM #300 McFarlane.Remember more people can afford a $200 book than can afford a $1000 book so you open yourself up to a much larger market.

 

Anyway enough rambling I just wanted to give you guys an "outsiders" point of view.

 

 

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chainnball

chainnball

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Posted

Being a newer witness, I can't relate as much as some of you but I gotta tell ya, after the NY show, I'm not sure I want to take submissions for shows anymore. I didn't get to look at a single book in NY. All I did was run, run, run, It was crazy. I think I will stick to the hard to get private signings. Much less stress, lol, and I enjoy the hunt. Love it when someone challenges me to get someone tough. I see what some of these guys go through at shows. I WISH there were agreements in place for witnesses so we didn;t have to chase down some of these artists.

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Par2ch

Par2ch

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Posted

I also want to note that I only collect yellow label books, so there wont be any slowdown in my convention attendance or collecting habits, heck I have 300+SS slabs coming in from NYCC, MegaCon and the Zeck Private Signing. And dont you all worry many will be up for sale :)

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shortstack comics

shortstack comics

Posted
Posted

As someone who has recently caught the yellow fever myself, let me jump in on this conversation.

 

First, I think it would be a tragedy if all of the witnesses followed only the business model of "create and then sell". Personally, I have never bought a book that was "created". The books I have had witnessed have been books for me, meaning that they are books that have a meaning to me and might not be that desirable on the secondary market. The books I had witnessed by Kris at WWTX last year are a perfect example of this. I had all of the GIJoe #0 books signed by Christos Gage. These might be worthless on the secondary market, but these have a big significance to me. At NYCC, I had Punisher War Zone #4, 5, and 6 witnessed for Romita, Jr. signatures. These books were the first non-GI Joe books I ever bought, and so they mean a lot to me. In both of these examples, a witness most likely would never had "created" these books for sale.

 

Second, it is my understanding that it is QUITE difficult to become a witness and that CGC only allows for a limited number of witnesses to work. Knowing that the SS is a service, it's a little aggravating to think that I am only supposed to purchase books already "created" that are being created on a speculative market and not get what I actually want. If anyone could be a witness or there were a murch larger number of witnesses, I think I could handle the idea of a number of witnesses only doing/pushing "created" books, but since there is such limitations on numbers, it seems unfair (I know, a childish thing to say) and not something CGC would really want to happen since it could impact the number of books being done as well.

 

Just my thoughts. Take them for what they are worth. No offense meant.

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jonjesper

jonjesper

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Posted

Random thoughts...

 

We all know witnesses work hard, and it seems the people who say it more than anyone are the ones who send us money to get the books done, the customers.

 

People that buy or sub SS books work hard too, they work hard to send us their money to buy what they want. Anytime we decide we are going to get books subbed for ourselves (on the whim that they might be worth doing), it is on us, not anyone else. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...

 

You can't make a living doing this, no possible way. As a side job or to help get books done for your collection while helping others with their collection, it works fine.

 

If Duke had a comic book, I would own them all and they would all be signed by Christian Laettner...dreamy...

 

Sales are down everywhere, SS or blue label, really doesn't matter. Buy low, sell high folks...take advantage for low pricing and sell it for more when everything bounces up. Basic economics...

 

All this said, sales are still being made, books are still being purchased. This is not a new trend to see books that are common moderns (and everyone has them) to be sold around cost. It happens...

 

I am still the best looking witness in the business... soul patch or not...

 

 

 

 

 

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