Does White = White??

[crazyhips]

I cracked open a slabbed book with "White" pages and found that they were somewhat tan. Does "White" truly mean "White" or does CGC make some allowances for light tanning on what it calls "White"??

[Mr. Zipper]

Very few comic paperstocks are truly white... as in pure white like a sheet of copy paper.

 

I think the white designation may be relative to what the paperstock looked like when new and speaks to its state of preservation sometimes more than its actual color.

[rodan57]

"White" can sometimes be described as very "bright" paper. Certainly should not be "tan".

 

Though it will matter what light you view the book in. Fluorescent and incandescent lights can be purchased to emit warm or cool tones to an environment. These can radically change one's colour perceptions.

[FFB]

Very few comic paperstocks are truly white... as in pure white like a sheet of copy paper.

 

I think the white designation may be relative to what the paperstock looked like when new and speaks to its state of preservation sometimes more than its actual color.

 

Except for the Fox books that started with Blue and Pink pages (and are designated as such), that's correct. The starting color of the books is the baseline for the page color designation. This makes sense, because no books from the 1980s would have White pages unless it was printed on Baxter paper.

[slym2none]

Are you calling me a honkey? A cracker? White-bread???

 

 

 

 

-slym ( )

[Dick Pontoon]

Very few comic paperstocks are truly white... as in pure white like a sheet of copy paper.

 

I think the white designation may be relative to what the paperstock looked like when new and speaks to its state of preservation sometimes more than its actual color.

 

Except for the Fox books that started with Blue and Pink pages (and are designated as such), that's correct. The starting color of the books is the baseline for the page color designation. This makes sense, because no books from the 1980s would have White pages unless it was printed on Baxter paper.

 

Tell me more, tell me more! Was the 80s a bad period for paper stock?

[crazyhips]

The book in question was a Batman 261 from the mid 70s.

[divad]

No. And, no. CGC's judgment on PQ imho is both arbitrary and inconsistent.

[FFB]

Very few comic paperstocks are truly white... as in pure white like a sheet of copy paper.

 

I think the white designation may be relative to what the paperstock looked like when new and speaks to its state of preservation sometimes more than its actual color.

 

Except for the Fox books that started with Blue and Pink pages (and are designated as such), that's correct. The starting color of the books is the baseline for the page color designation. This makes sense, because no books from the 1980s would have White pages unless it was printed on Baxter paper.

 

Tell me more, tell me more! Was the 80s a bad period for paper stock?

 

No, it's just that newsprint isn't as white as Baxter paper.

[Ze-man]

Yeah, Baxter paper is bone white compared to lesser quality newsprint.

 

 

 

[namisgr]

There's alot of range to the "white" designation as given by CGC. Probably most people who've submitted books have seen it - books with snow white pages and books that one thinks could come back ow/w both getting the same white designation.

 

There were two dealers back in the day before CGC who would not only acknowledge superior page quality in their sales, but broke the "white pages" designation down into subcategories. Robert Roter of PCE used a numerical system for grading the page quality of all his books, and anything from 0.0 - 3.0 was considered "white", with 3.5 and up being used for lesser page quality grades. He was pretty accurate, too. I've had a couple of purchases from Robert that were given 1.0s and 3.0s come back from CGC as "white", while his old 3.5s tend to come back "off-white to white" and his 4.0s "off-white". Marnin was the other dealer who knew that "white" could mean pretty white or really white. He'd give * next to a listed grade to signify a book with "pretty white" pages, and a ** to denote "really white" books.

 

Some of the subtlety of page quality grading has been lost with CGC.

[jimjum12]

There's alot of range to the "white" designation as given by CGC. Probably most people who've submitted books have seen it - books with snow white pages and books that one thinks could come back ow/w both getting the same white designation.

 

There were two dealers back in the day before CGC who would not only acknowledge superior page quality in their sales, but broke the "white pages" designation down into subcategories. Robert Roter of PCE used a numerical system for grading the page quality of all his books, and anything from 0.0 - 3.0 was considered "white", with 3.5 and up being used for lesser page quality grades. He was pretty accurate, too. I've had a couple of purchases from Robert that were given 1.0s and 3.0s come back from CGC as "white", while his old 3.5s tend to come back "off-white to white" and his 4.0s "off-white". Marnin was the other dealer who knew that "white" could mean pretty white or really white. He'd give * next to a listed grade to signify a book with "pretty white" pages, and a ** to denote "really white" books.

 

Some of the subtlety of page quality grading has been lost with CGC.

 

I've also noticed that books with white page designations don't always have white cover stock...which at one point would have actually been white. Personally...I'd rather have an OW book with White cover stock than vice versa. Contrary to popular belief, an accurately graded OW book is still awesome. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[PovertyRow]

This makes sense, because no books from the 1980s would have White pages unless it was printed on Baxter paper.

 

Ahhh! Marvel Fanfare! Remember how "hot" that book was?

[Flash105]

Strangely enough there are moderns that have no white at all in them (black ink backgrounds throughout) that would get the white pages designation.

[divad]

Strangely enough there are moderns that have no white at all in them (black ink backgrounds throughout) that would get the white pages designation.

 

Yes, I've never understood this . . .

[chrisco37]

 

Though it will matter what light you view the book in. Fluorescent and incandescent lights can be purchased to emit warm or cool tones to an environment. These can radically change one's colour perceptions.

 

 

I just got a book back (on-site resub).

 

PQ on first submission (back in 2002) was "Light Tan to OW"

 

PQ on resub (2009) was "Off-White"

 

I think it may be related to what you describe above. Diff lights at CGC grading room as opposed to on-site areas.

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

CGC has publicly stated that they have eased up on their PQ designations from a few years ago.

 

I think that is all that you are seeing.

 

I'm betting that when CGC does on site grading they set the room up to mimic they way it is set up at HQ.

 

 

[chrisco37]

CGC has publicly stated that they have eased up on their PQ designations from a few years ago.

 

Yes, you posted that in the Showcase #22 thread. That could explain some bump ups. But this a pretty drastic bump. I was hoping that I might get a bump up to cr/ow. A bump to straight OW never crossed my mind. And, it shouldn't have.

 

I'm betting that when CGC does on site grading they set the room up to mimic they way it is set up at HQ.

 

One would hope so. But, I doubt they bring along lamps (fixture tubes/bulbs) to replace already existing to ensure the lighting levels are the same. Can't recall if they bring their own lights.

[wca140]

There's alot of range to the "white" designation as given by CGC. Probably most people who've submitted books have seen it - books with snow white pages and books that one thinks could come back ow/w both getting the same white designation.

 

There were two dealers back in the day before CGC who would not only acknowledge superior page quality in their sales, but broke the "white pages" designation down into subcategories. Robert Roter of PCE used a numerical system for grading the page quality of all his books, and anything from 0.0 - 3.0 was considered "white", with 3.5 and up being used for lesser page quality grades. He was pretty accurate, too. I've had a couple of purchases from Robert that were given 1.0s and 3.0s come back from CGC as "white", while his old 3.5s tend to come back "off-white to white" and his 4.0s "off-white". Marnin was the other dealer who knew that "white" could mean pretty white or really white. He'd give * next to a listed grade to signify a book with "pretty white" pages, and a ** to denote "really white" books.

 

Some of the subtlety of page quality grading has been lost with CGC.

 

What these 2 dealers did really make sense.

Page Color obviously is important to everybody in the grading process why is there no standard or swatch books/color samples that one can directly compare to ones books to determine the color quality?

I have a number of BA DC books I don't know where they would fall in the spectrum of OW to Tan or is it completely subjective based on lighting and the grader involved?

[Ze-man]

CGC has publicly stated that they have eased up on their PQ designations from a few years ago.

 

Yes, you posted that in the Showcase #22 thread. That could explain some bump ups. But this a pretty drastic bump. I was hoping that I might get a bump up to cr/ow. A bump to straight OW never crossed my mind. And, it shouldn't have.

 

I'm betting that when CGC does on site grading they set the room up to mimic they way it is set up at HQ.

 

One would hope so. But, I doubt they bring along lamps (fixture tubes/bulbs) to replace already existing to ensure the lighting levels are the same. Can't recall if they bring their own lights.

 

I am pretty certain they are least bring a few table top natural light lamps. It is not hard to do considering all the other equipment they have to cart around.