Supes #61 CGC 9.0 in CLink a resub?

[batman_fan]

Well, the answer is I WOULD like to sell it, and am NOT happy with the book, now that I know it's just another pressed POS.

 

There are people that get angry about nondisclosure.

Their are people that get angry about profiteers engaging in the crack/press/resub game.

Finally, there are people that just flat out hate pressing.

You're in that last group, Tim, and the vast majority of people here on the boards just can't relate to that visceral hatred for the practice. It's a hard stance to take, and I fear you'll be butting heads with a lot of folks over it.

 

 

Maybe he is like me and considers pressing to be restoration and hates seeing a nice book that didn't need restoration being restored

[nearmint]

Well, the answer is I WOULD like to sell it, and am NOT happy with the book, now that I know it's just another pressed POS.

 

There are people that get angry about nondisclosure.

Their are people that get angry about profiteers engaging in the crack/press/resub game.

Finally, there are people that just flat out hate pressing.

You're in that last group, Tim, and the vast majority of people here on the boards just can't relate to that visceral hatred for the practice. It's a hard stance to take, and I fear you'll be butting heads with a lot of folks over it.

 

 

Maybe he is like me and considers pressing to be restoration and hates seeing a nice book that didn't need restoration being restored

 

Probably so, but you don't make it personal.

[tth2]

a 9.4 book, white. and he knows there is a 9.2 church book underneath the alleged press. but it's a pos now. man, it would be hard to completely lose one's credibility faster than that. i dare any of y'all to beat it.

 

I'm not sure why the fact that it's been pressed is much of an issue to you. It's a damn nice copy. If you can't appreciate that, then maybe you need to take a break.

Wow. So it's not enough to be subject to peer pressure on the issue of pressing, but now you guys are going to tell me what I can and can't consider to be a POS, and what I can and can't appreciate?

 

It's my book, right? So I can criticize it as much as I want, right?

 

You guys are something else.

[tth2]

Well, the answer is I WOULD like to sell it, and am NOT happy with the book, now that I know it's just another pressed POS.

 

There are people that get angry about nondisclosure.

Their are people that get angry about profiteers engaging in the crack/press/resub game.

Finally, there are people that just flat out hate pressing.

You're in that last group, Tim, and the vast majority of people here on the boards just can't relate to that visceral hatred for the practice. It's a hard stance to take, and I fear you'll be butting heads with a lot of folks over it.

 

Sure, I understand that, Jeff. It's ALWAYS easier to just fall in line with what the majority believe. But what I believe is what I believe. Maybe it's not rational, but on the other hand, neither is collecting little colored pieces of newsprint.

[tth2]

Well, the answer is I WOULD like to sell it, and am NOT happy with the book, now that I know it's just another pressed POS.

 

There are people that get angry about nondisclosure.

Their are people that get angry about profiteers engaging in the crack/press/resub game.

Finally, there are people that just flat out hate pressing.

You're in that last group, Tim, and the vast majority of people here on the boards just can't relate to that visceral hatred for the practice. It's a hard stance to take, and I fear you'll be butting heads with a lot of folks over it.

 

 

Maybe he is like me and considers pressing to be restoration and hates seeing a nice book that didn't need restoration being restored

Thank you! Finally, someone else who gets it. (thumbs u

[esquirecomics]

Well, the answer is I WOULD like to sell it, and am NOT happy with the book, now that I know it's just another pressed POS.

 

There are people that get angry about nondisclosure.

Their are people that get angry about profiteers engaging in the crack/press/resub game.

Finally, there are people that just flat out hate pressing.

You're in that last group, Tim, and the vast majority of people here on the boards just can't relate to that visceral hatred for the practice. It's a hard stance to take, and I fear you'll be butting heads with a lot of folks over it.

 

Sure, I understand that, Jeff. It's ALWAYS easier to just fall in line with what the majority believe. But what I believe is what I believe. Maybe it's not rational, but on the other hand, neither is collecting little colored pieces of newsprint.

 

Is that what we keep buying!!!

 

And to think people actually pursue this as an occupation. Go figure.

 

I am not fond of the practice of pressing, but I don't hate it. But neither do I begrudge Tim for having his own opinion.

 

Personally I didn't find Anna Nicole Smith that attractive, but certainly a ton of other people did. To each his own.

[MCMiles]

Well, the answer is I WOULD like to sell it, and am NOT happy with the book, now that I know it's just another pressed POS.

 

There are people that get angry about nondisclosure.

Their are people that get angry about profiteers engaging in the crack/press/resub game.

Finally, there are people that just flat out hate pressing.

You're in that last group, Tim, and the vast majority of people here on the boards just can't relate to that visceral hatred for the practice. It's a hard stance to take, and I fear you'll be butting heads with a lot of folks over it.

 

 

Maybe he is like me and considers pressing to be restoration and hates seeing a nice book that didn't need restoration being restored

Thank you! Finally, someone else who gets it. (thumbs u

Everyone "gets it". Not everyone has the same opinion though, and ultimately your opinion is most important to you only. More time should be spent protecting your own opinion then disrespecting the opinion of others that feel differently. Choosing to decivilize the debate, the GA forum, and the hobby for that matter, takes more energy then protecting your own interest when making a purchase or a sale.

 

I don't agree with allowing the provenance of a book to be lost. I believe that there are those that will certainly allow that to happen in an attempt to hide the fact that the CGC grade of the book has been changed for some reason or the other. Thankfully not everyone feels as negatively toward cracking/resubbing or cracking/pressing/resubbing as a few in this thread do. If that were the case, many, many more books might loose their provenance.

 

IMO, it would be healthier for the hobby if those that have a disdain for "crack/press/resubbing" in any degree to understand that it is a part of the hobby and that to many it is of little or no importance. Those that disagree should definitely let their opinion be known, especially at the point of purchase, but to classify a large group of people as "slime bags" over ones opinion is not going to help anything. Many from both sides of the debate are able to manage their buying, selling, and collecting activities with in this "state" of the hobby. Again, more could be accomplished by asking questions at the point of purchase, or of sale, and the refusal of either, then childish name calling or FDQ "I'm sick of this hobby" threads.

 

[tth2]

Not everyone has the same opinion though, and ultimately your opinion is most important to you only.

Did I ever say it was anything more than my opinion? WTF do you think I'm going to do, firebomb Matt Nelson's house tomorrow? Spray paint any known pressed books that I see?

 

More time should be spent protecting your own opinion then disrespecting the opinion of others that feel differently. Choosing to decivilize the debate, the GA forum, and the hobby for that matter, takes more energy then protecting your own interest when making a purchase or a sale.

 

I don't agree with allowing the provenance of a book to be lost. I believe that there are those that will certainly allow that to happen in an attempt to hide the fact that the CGC grade of the book has been changed for some reason or the other. Thankfully not everyone feels as negatively toward cracking/resubbing or cracking/pressing/resubbing as a few in this thread do. If that were the case, many, many more books might loose their provenance.

 

IMO, it would be healthier for the hobby if those that have a disdain for "crack/press/resubbing" in any degree to understand that it is a part of the hobby and that to many it is of little or no importance. Those that disagree should definitely let their opinion be known, especially at the point of purchase, but to classify a large group of people as "slime bags" over ones opinion is not going to help anything. Many from both sides of the debate are able to manage their buying, selling, and collecting activities with in this "state" of the hobby. Again, more could be accomplished by asking questions at the point of purchase, or of sale, and the refusal of either, then childish name calling or FDQ "I'm sick of this hobby" threads.

Translation:

 

1. shut up and stop rocking the boat

 

2. hold any opinion you want, but if it's different from mine, please don't express it

 

(thumbs u

[DrWatson]

This thread has been both enlightening and informative. It has helped me see certain things in a new light as well as reinforce previous opinions.

[G.A.tor]

doc, I find when you turn the lights out, everything looks the same (thumbs u

[nearmint]

Not everyone has the same opinion though, and ultimately your opinion is most important to you only.

Did I ever say it was anything more than my opinion? WTF do you think I'm going to do, firebomb Matt Nelson's house tomorrow? Spray paint any known pressed books that I see?

 

More time should be spent protecting your own opinion then disrespecting the opinion of others that feel differently. Choosing to decivilize the debate, the GA forum, and the hobby for that matter, takes more energy then protecting your own interest when making a purchase or a sale.

 

I don't agree with allowing the provenance of a book to be lost. I believe that there are those that will certainly allow that to happen in an attempt to hide the fact that the CGC grade of the book has been changed for some reason or the other. Thankfully not everyone feels as negatively toward cracking/resubbing or cracking/pressing/resubbing as a few in this thread do. If that were the case, many, many more books might loose their provenance.

 

IMO, it would be healthier for the hobby if those that have a disdain for "crack/press/resubbing" in any degree to understand that it is a part of the hobby and that to many it is of little or no importance. Those that disagree should definitely let their opinion be known, especially at the point of purchase, but to classify a large group of people as "slime bags" over ones opinion is not going to help anything. Many from both sides of the debate are able to manage their buying, selling, and collecting activities with in this "state" of the hobby. Again, more could be accomplished by asking questions at the point of purchase, or of sale, and the refusal of either, then childish name calling or FDQ "I'm sick of this hobby" threads.

Translation:

 

1. shut up and stop rocking the boat

 

2. hold any opinion you want, but if it's different from mine, please don't express it

 

(thumbs u

 

That's not what Mike said at all.

[tb]

I think we have another [...]

 

[DrWatson]

doc, I find when you turn the lights out, everything looks the same (thumbs u

Yeah, but when you can't see, that's when you have to feel.

[G.A.tor]

doc, I find when you turn the lights out, everything looks the same (thumbs u

Yeah, but when you can't see, that's when you have to feel.

I can see where that might cause some problems...

[VintageComics]

If I might add a few points that I think are worth stressing.

 

CGC's role is exclusively to grade the book that is sitting in front of the graders at the time that the book is in front of them. They are not there as a business to verify, research or offer "feel good" support for any clients who are submitting their books.

 

They are certainly not there to do leg work for others although they are incredibly helpful people and obviously very knowledgeable.

 

If a book loses some sort of designation you certainly cannot blame CGC or their business model. They are not in the pedigree recongnition business although they have been known to work with submitters on this subject.

 

Pedigree verification could be a niche business that someone with enough money and time on their hands might want to take upon themselves if they love the hobby enough.

 

Also very important to keep in mind that some people take the history of a comic way more seriously than others. You can't fault someone for not being as zealous about keeping a book's provenence as you (or anyone else) might be.

 

Like Richard Evans said, ped designations are designations made by collectors for collectors and as collectors go, each one has a different interest in what they perceive as cool or find value in.

 

I found Mark's opening arguements emotional (understandably so) but unjustified considering there was no Rockford desgination on the book before it was resubbed from a purple into a blue holder.

 

I also find Tim's "slimebag" statement pretty surprising although I understand your frustration.

 

Certainly a tough spot to be in for Tim but one where asking questions and doing research before hand can likely eliminate a lot of frustration afterwards.

 

I do agree the proactive disclosure up front is the ideal compromise that should keep the peace between all sides involved.

[skypinkblu]

 

I do agree the proactive disclosure up front is the ideal compromise that should keep the peace between all sides involved.

 

(thumbs u

 

When I suggested stamping the centerfolds, I was really only half joking;)

 

I've had a few books pressed, all with very big problems, huge spine rolls, someone slept with the book, etc...maybe 5, total? I'm obviously not a huge fan of pressing, however, when I was in Chicago, I showed a friend (who does press) a few books I had purchased and automatically he said, "look, you can fix this...and this crease"...when I looked at him (like he lost his mind;) his answer was..."sorry, I just automaticallly look"...and I could see that...

 

This really is a game for some...and some nice people are into it...some nice people are not into it. I wasn't interested in fixing up a book from 6.5 to 7.0, because I just wanted the book to keep (at least for now). However, some others see it as an opportunity to make a little extra money and buy more books with that money.

 

I don't have a problem with that either, because once you buy the book, it's YOUR book as long as you proactively disclose when you sell.

 

So maybe we should stamp the covers, not the centerfolds ?..:shrug:

 

Seriously, there is no perfect answer, so let's just try and be respectful of other's opinions.

 

[tth2]

That's not what Mike said at all.

Of course you have a more benign interpretation of what he said, Jeff. He`s not attacking you.

[tth2]

 

I do agree the proactive disclosure up front is the ideal compromise that should keep the peace between all sides involved.

 

(thumbs u

 

When I suggested stamping the centerfolds, I was really only half joking;)

 

I've had a few books pressed, all with very big problems, huge spine rolls, someone slept with the book, etc...maybe 5, total? I'm obviously not a huge fan of pressing, however, when I was in Chicago, I showed a friend (who does press) a few books I had purchased and automatically he said, "look, you can fix this...and this crease"...when I looked at him (like he lost his mind;) his answer was..."sorry, I just automaticallly look"...and I could see that...

 

This really is a game for some...and some nice people are into it...some nice people are not into it. I wasn't interested in fixing up a book from 6.5 to 7.0, because I just wanted the book to keep (at least for now). However, some others see it as an opportunity to make a little extra money and buy more books with that money.

 

I don't have a problem with that either, because once you buy the book, it's YOUR book as long as you proactively disclose when you sell.

 

So maybe we should stamp the covers, not the centerfolds ?..:shrug:

 

Seriously, there is no perfect answer, so let's just try and be respectful of other's opinions.

 

Sharon, you`ve summarized very well exactly what has gone wrong with this hobby. Pressing has gone from a relatively uncommon practice to fix the most extreme problems to almost standard practice with more and more people almost instinctively looking to tweak every book that they see, and many actually acting upon it.

 

And here`s the crux of why the live and let live approach that the pro-pressers are always advocating doesn`t work: because NOT pressing books by the anti-pressing contingent doesn`t impact the pressers (and actually helps them), while pressing books by the pro-pressing contingent DOES impact the non-pressers because it constantly reduces the pool of books that are available. Disclosure prevents people from getting ripped off, but it doesn`t change the fact that the books are getting altered.

[nearmint]

That's not what Mike said at all.

Of course you have a more benign interpretation of what he said, Jeff. He`s not attacking you.

 

No, Tim, really, it's not what he said. Regardless of whether he's attacking you or not, what he said does not match your interpretation.

[VintageComics]

So maybe we should stamp the covers, not the centerfolds ?..:shrug:

 

Seriously, there is no perfect answer, so let's just try and be respectful of other's opinions.

 

Sha, marking the books has been discussed in the past.

 

The purists don't like the ideas as again, the book is manipulated or marked in some way. Again you will also never accurately get everyone to agree to participate.

 

Really, and this might sound overly simple or naive, but if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound?

 

If you do as much due diligence before a sale, ask questions etc and are satisfied with your answers and your potential purchase that is really the best that you can do. Nothing in life is really guaranteed and undisputed absolutes really tough to pin down sometimes...from Scientific theory to someone's word to different perceptions. It really comes down to being comfortable with where you are at with a particular book, a collection, with whom you are dealing or what you believe at a given time knowing that it might change.

 

If you can't prove or show that a book is pressed or if you believe to the best of your research and knowledge that it is not pressed is that not enough?

 

If you can't prove a book has been pressed is that not enough to be satisfied with a book?

 

I don't know how else to find a common ground to meet on except to push for proactive disclosure.

 

I mean, people make bigger decisions with religion, health, investments, family planning etc and other stuff with less info than we have when we purchase a comic. Really.

 

I wouldn't vilify people for capitilizing on something that is not immoral. You could create a case for vilifying people who conceal or misrepresent things. That is a completely different ball of wax.

 

In the end I have come to the personal conclusion that the discussions about pressing on these boards is what is directly responsible not for the pressing of books but rather it's proliferation. Pressing is rampant because of it's exposure to the general public. If it were not discussed in such detail with such passion, most people that are pressing books now would not be doing so.

 

It's certainly made for an intersting 5 or 6 years on these boards that is for sure.

 

R.