• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Sacrificing a Grade for a SS
0

Started by nvista,

49 posts in this topic

nvista

nvista

Posted
Posted

Hey everyone,

 

I have a question for the Yellow Label crowd, and others if they wish to join in, I just hope that no one has asked this question before.

 

I have some nice blue and yellow 9.8 slabs which I want to get get signed--mostly MAs and some CAs . The only thing which bothers me is that my books can come back a grade lower; although they can come back higher as well--which is a plus. Getting that certain signature by "so and so" is worth it as a fan of "so and so," but there is that risk.

 

So I ask: Is it worth sacrificing a grade for a signature?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
somewhereintexas

somewhereintexas

Posted
Posted

It all depends upon why you're getting a book signed, and what book it is. And maybe the question should really be is it worth risking a grade drop to get a signature, because in most cases a book will keep the same grade, especially if a SS witness handles cracking the book out. The SS witnesses handle books just like their own, so if a book gets damaged in the signing process, it's generally because of something the signer did, and not the witness.

 

If you're getting the book signed for yourself as opposed for resale, then in most cases, it's worth taking the small risk, because it's really all about the signature and not the grade. And even if you are getting the book signed to sell, it's probably worth the risk because it's so small. The exception is when the difference in price if the book drops is significant, and if you're talking about copper age and modern age books, in most instances, especially with moderns, the difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6 is not that much, mainly because a 9.8 is not worth that much, so there's only so much the book can drop. G.I. Joe #21 is an example that comes to mind, and even on that one, the difference between 9.8 and 9.6 is not nearly as much as it used to be. Once you move into the bronze age and older, the differences between grades can be much more significant, such as Hulk #181, where a 9.8 goes for $15K plus, and a 9.6 can go for less than $5K.

 

Bottom line is, if in your mind it would be a disaster if the book drops in grade, then don't get it signed because nothing is worth that kind of stress. On the other hand, if you really want the signature and don't care if in the unlikely event the grade drops, then go for it.

 

Just my 2c

Link to comment
Share on other sites
NYComics

NYComics

Posted
Posted
It all depends upon why you're getting a book signed, and what book it is. And maybe the question should really be is it worth risking a grade drop to get a signature, because in most cases a book will keep the same grade, especially if a SS witness handles cracking the book out. The SS witnesses handle books just like their own, so if a book gets damaged in the signing process, it's generally because of something the signer did, and not the witness.

 

If you're getting the book signed for yourself as opposed for resale, then in most cases, it's worth taking the small risk, because it's really all about the signature and not the grade. And even if you are getting the book signed to sell, it's probably worth the risk because it's so small. The exception is when the difference in price if the book drops is significant, and if you're talking about copper age and modern age books, in most instances, especially with moderns, the difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6 is not that much, mainly because a 9.8 is not worth that much, so there's only so much the book can drop. G.I. Joe #21 is an example that comes to mind, and even on that one, the difference between 9.8 and 9.6 is not nearly as much as it used to be. Once you move into the bronze age and older, the differences between grades can be much more significant, such as Hulk #181, where a 9.8 goes for $15K plus, and a 9.6 can go for less than $5K.

 

Bottom line is, if in your mind it would be a disaster if the book drops in grade, then don't get it signed because nothing is worth that kind of stress. On the other hand, if you really want the signature and don't care if in the unlikely event the grade drops, then go for it.

 

Just my 2c

 

lol +1 (worship)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lscomics

lscomics

Posted
Posted

I'd have to agree. I generally get books signed that I intend to keep whether it be because I'm a fan of the artist/writer or just like the cover. I also lean more towards bronze-age stuff so in a lot of cases the grade isn't as important to me as the signature. I'm more than happy with most of the stuff I get SS in 8.0 or better depending on the book. After all, an 8.0 is still a VF and to most collectors that's not a bad thing. It'd be great to have all of the stuff I want in 9.2 or higher but it's just not financially realistic for me. Over the last couple of years in particular there seems to be more acceptance and an increased interest for slabbed books in the 7.5 to 9.0 range. They tend to be more affordable and are still, although opinions might vary, high grade.

 

2c

Link to comment
Share on other sites
A-DONIS

A-DONIS

Posted
Posted
It all depends upon why you're getting a book signed, and what book it is. And maybe the question should really be is it worth risking a grade drop to get a signature, because in most cases a book will keep the same grade, especially if a SS witness handles cracking the book out. The SS witnesses handle books just like their own, so if a book gets damaged in the signing process, it's generally because of something the signer did, and not the witness.

 

If you're getting the book signed for yourself as opposed for resale, then in most cases, it's worth taking the small risk, because it's really all about the signature and not the grade. And even if you are getting the book signed to sell, it's probably worth the risk because it's so small. The exception is when the difference in price if the book drops is significant, and if you're talking about copper age and modern age books, in most instances, especially with moderns, the difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6 is not that much, mainly because a 9.8 is not worth that much, so there's only so much the book can drop. G.I. Joe #21 is an example that comes to mind, and even on that one, the difference between 9.8 and 9.6 is not nearly as much as it used to be. Once you move into the bronze age and older, the differences between grades can be much more significant, such as Hulk #181, where a 9.8 goes for $15K plus, and a 9.6 can go for less than $5K.

 

Bottom line is, if in your mind it would be a disaster if the book drops in grade, then don't get it signed because nothing is worth that kind of stress. On the other hand, if you really want the signature and don't care if in the unlikely event the grade drops, then go for it.

 

Just my 2c

 

:o I can't even come up with two sentences at this time of night/morning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted

I'm sitting on the fence on this very subject. I've got a Vampirella Blue Foil Edition signed by Frazetta in 9.8. I really want to add Neal Adams and Jim Warren, but am afraid to pull the trigger. I have never had a cracked book come back lower than I sent it in at, but it's a rare book signed by Frazetta in 9.8.

 

I imagine I'll crack it out eventually........

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mamatsch

mamatsch

Posted
Posted

I've generally had really good luck when submitting the books to a witness to crack, only had one 9.8 go down to a 9.6, but when I'm getting the sigs it's for me and not for sale, so I'm usually willing to take the chance. On a book that's hard to get in a 9.8 with a rare sig already, I'm not so sure what I'd do...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CollectingStanLee

CollectingStanLee

Posted
Posted

I've moved away from taking chances. I just picked up Silver Surfer #4 CGC 9.4 and that one is not coming out of the case. Besides, I already have a 5.5 signed by Stan Lee. Once the book costs more than $1000, I get too nervous now as opposed to in the past when I didn't care. Since then I've had a couple of grade drops and a couple of bumps that show me just how risky it can be. I had a Hulk #2 go from 6.0 to 4.5 ($600 loss) after being signed and in the same group, a Fantastic Four #3 go from 4.5 to 5.5 ($800 gain?). I probably gained overall on that group, but you can't count on it.

 

Your question has to do with modern and copper and typically there is a lot less to risk and generally more consistency in the comic book, so if it is handled correctly, it will most likely retain it's grade. Just keep in mind that once it's out of the case, anything can happen. It does get frustrating.

 

Bill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Celestial Comics

Celestial Comics

Posted
Posted

You are right Bill. Ultimately it is the decision of the owner of the book if they want to gamble or not. And ANYTIME you crack a book it is a gamble. No matter who the witness is :baiting: Danny. I have seen a book cracked out of a slab right at the CGC booth using as much care as possible, then signed right there in the booth and then submitted right to CGC and then packed up and shipped out. And it lost a 1/2 grade.

 

Yes the witness has alot to do with it. But it also has to do with the graders at the time as well. Remember that the graders are human and humans are subjective. Yes there are guidelines for grading but what one grader sees as 9.4 another grader may see as a 9.2 or a 9.6. That is why there are three graders used in the grading process. If the book was previously graded 5 years ago, the chances are the same graders are not even grading the book the second time around 5 years later. I have had two cases where the owner of a High grade, High Dollar book took chances and it paid off. Both books were Incredible Hulk 181's. The first book was previously graded a 9.6 and we cracked it out and had Stan Lee sign it. It then got graded and came back a 9.8. The value went from $5,000 to $33,000. The second book was previously graded a 9.6 and we cracked it out and had it signed by Stan Lee, John Romita, Herb Trimpe and Len Wein. It then got graded a 9.6 but now it was quadriple signed. What the new value is, nobody knows at this time. So both of those clients won on that gamble. The same client who had the 9.8 also had a bunch of other books signed as well. 105 to be exact. lol We had some that went up in grade and a few of those dropped a grade. While on a conference call between the client, myself and CGC to discuss one book that dropped a grade, it was discovered that the notes from the first time being graded and the second time being graded after Stan signed the book were no different. The notes were exactly the same yet the grader thought it was a slightly lower grade.

IT IS ALL SUBJECTIVE!

 

So there is my input to this subject. And considering that we handled almost 3000 books this year and had less then 1% of those 3000 books drop in grade, I think I can say with confidence that we have learned a few things in our days as witnesses.

:preach:

 

Chandler & Sharon Rice

Desert Wind Comics

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CollectingStanLee

CollectingStanLee

Posted
Posted

Chandler, you are right. 1% grade drop is phenomenal on that number of books when you consider what the possibilities for trouble are. Just handling a book out of case can cause damage and you might not even be aware of it as I was not in the case of the Hulk #2. Apparently a spine split appeared that was not there before, and I handled it with kid gloves as a book of that caliber deserves. I am extremely careful with books. But anything can happen.

 

I'm sure the guy who you got the 9.8 Hulk 181 signed for by Stan Lee during the run up to the Wolverine movie is glad he took a chance, since that paid off big time. Had it gone from 9.6 to 9.4, the loss would have been huge too, so it's all about how much risk you are willing to take as an investor and collector.

 

At the end of the day, it tends to balance out, for example, I also got a grade bump on my X-men #1 CGC SS Stan Lee, it went from 5.0 to 5.5, cha ching! The problem is you don't have control over it, so unless you are comfortable with the very real possibility of a grade drop, don't do it. 1% chance of grade drop is pretty good odds, but if it occurs on your most expensive book, you will still be upset.

 

This is one reason why I have such respect for the people who are doing high value Golden Age books, they are committed for sure. If we're talking about modern-age books, it's not such a big deal because even if you can't live with the grade drop, should it occur, replacing the 9.8 is relatively easy and inexpensive (with a few exceptions), when you compare to the cost of key silver and golden age books. Yep, I rambled on again.

 

Bill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Skynwalker

Skynwalker

Posted
Posted
Chandler, you are right. 1% grade drop is phenomenal on that number of books when you consider what the possibilities for trouble are. Just handling a book out of case can cause damage and you might not even be aware of it as I was not in the case of the Hulk #2. Apparently a spine split appeared that was not there before, and I handled it with kid gloves as a book of that caliber deserves. I am extremely careful with books. But anything can happen.

 

I'm sure the guy who you got the 9.8 Hulk 181 signed for by Stan Lee during the run up to the Wolverine movie is glad he took a chance, since that paid off big time. Had it gone from 9.6 to 9.4, the loss would have been huge too, so it's all about how much risk you are willing to take as an investor and collector.

 

At the end of the day, it tends to balance out, for example, I also got a grade bump on my X-men #1 CGC SS Stan Lee, it went from 5.0 to 5.5, cha ching! The problem is you don't have control over it, so unless you are comfortable with the very real possibility of a grade drop, don't do it. 1% chance of grade drop is pretty good odds, but if it occurs on your most expensive book, you will still be upset.

 

This is one reason why I have such respect for the people who are doing high value Golden Age books, they are committed for sure. If we're talking about modern-age books, it's not such a big deal because even if you can't live with the grade drop, should it occur, replacing the 9.8 is relatively easy and inexpensive (with a few exceptions), when you compare to the cost of key silver and golden age books. Yep, I rambled on again.

 

Bill.

But a well written ramble (thumbs u

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0
Go to topic listing