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My take on the Heritage auctions

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Wow, the Mile High copies of National Comics did quite poorly. 9 of the first 11 issues didn't hit their reserve. So whose fault is that? The consignor's, for having unrealistic expectations? Or Heritage, for implicitly approving of those reserves by making that run of issues the centerpiece of their auction? Or is it just additional evidence that CGC has reduced the premium that pedigrees get in the marketplace, by showing in their census that non-pedigree issues can look just as good, or better?

 

I would fault Heritage for hyping up the cornerstone of their Sig Auction and not demanding or guiding the consignor to slap realistic reserves on these books. But then again, there were lots of books that did not sell other than the National run. Heritage and/or its consignors are pushing the envelope on pricing and we are hitting a wall. Either they adjust or they will be choking on it, I really believe this is where we are at in the marketplace. And when it comes to Mile Highs, CGC has absolutley NOT reduced the premium on these books. Those Nationals are great books, but the reserves were in the stratosphere and unrealistic. Check out the multiple asked on the National #1, CGC graded 7.5 no less. 893whatthe.gif It is sheer lunacy, hence the no sale. After this poor showing, I'd be very curious to see how they are received when they go up for sale again. boo.gif

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I would fault Heritage for hyping up the cornerstone of their Sig Auction and not demanding or guiding the consignor to slap realistic reserves on these books. But then again, there were lots of books that did not sell other than the National run. Heritage and/or its consignors are pushing the envelope on pricing and we are hitting a wall. Either they adjust or they will be choking on it, I really believe this is where we are at in the marketplace. And when it comes to Mile Highs, CGC has absolutley NOT reduced the premium on these books. Those Nationals are great books, but the reserves were in the stratosphere and unrealistic. Check out the multiple asked on the National #1, CGC graded 7.5 no less. 893whatthe.gif It is sheer lunacy, hence the no sale. After this poor showing, I'd be very curious to see how they are received when they go up for sale again. boo.gif

 

I am friends with the National MH consignor. I believe he paid about 4 times guide across the board 3 years ago for the run. Now the books have gone up in the guide a little, but after Heritage takes the juice from both sides he had to mark his books up otherwise he would LOSE money on his 3 year investment.

 

I am not saying I would have done things the way he did, but you can't fault him for not wanting to loose money on a Mile High run!

 

Timely

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I am not saying I would have done things the way he did

 

So how would you have done things? I ask not to be irritating or snotty, but to learn from someone who has sold more Mile High's than I've ever personally seen...

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Now the books have gone up in the guide a little, but after Heritage takes the juice from both sides he had to mark his books up otherwise he would LOSE money on his 3 year investment.

 

And that is the problem with trying to sell through Heritage. Forget the 15% vigorish, they take 30% total from both sides. Doesn't matter which side is paying what part of the juice, it is a dollar off the sale price that the seller or buyer does not get. As far as how to handle selling a run like this? Well hindsight is 20/20. So with that said I would take the classic covers, keys, and 9.8's and put those through Heritage. On books like those is where they'll earn their 30% margin. Sell the others privately or on Comiclink where the lesser 10% vigorish will come in handy. You may have to turn a couple of these books and make little or no $$$, but hopefully you'll make it back and them some on the biggies. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to analyze after the fact from the cheap seats. But that's just my two cents.insane.gif

 

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why would anybody make a movie about Captain Marvel??

 

Why not? Hollywood bought the rights to virtually any comic character since they lack the imagination to come up with anything on their own. The Shadow is a long dead property so is the Phantom yet both had films. Lets not even go into small cult books like Tank Girl etc that got films Maybe bad films but movies nontheless. I think Whiz is undervalued, comics like a lot of other collectibles tend to pull up each other value wise. Collectors have a habit of comparing values between books which over time seems to pull them all upward Maybe Fawcetts wont skyrocket or ever be as popular as Timely's but I'm pretty confident they will do just fine in the long run.

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well, I gotta admit that last night watching TV I saw a promo for repeats of the SHAZAM TV series from the 70s. I had completely forgot about that. Even given th elack of technology thn, it looked pretty grim. Billy and some older guy names the Mentor apparently drove around small towns etc and inteacted in little peoples lives, solving their problems. Typical TV plot setup like the Fugitive etc.

 

Anyway, to answer your question: Yes Hollywood made those movies, Phantom, Shadow and Tank Girl, and EACH one was a disaster. Those arent reasons to make another; rather they are proof NOT to make another comic movie from a long gone property or an obscure one (without stars and other film pedigrees involved). Walk into a producers office and convince him to put hi sresources behing a Shazam movie today. What do you say to get him excited to spend 4 years of his life putting the project together to try to convince a studio to spend 150 million on it? "He used to outsell Superman in the early 40s? Hes funnier than Superman? Mr Mind is an awesome villain?

 

So, not that it COULDN'T be a great film, if cast well, shot well with great effects and had a story that worked. But try convincing the right people to invest THEIR money in its potential.... or do it yourself if youre so sure! Not trying to sound person_without_enough_empathyy here, but those are the choices... I do not think its an easy sell at all. Also, since DC owns the property, unless TimeWarner makes it, others will have an even HARDER time getting a project going. And right now, DC/Warner is having a [!@#%^&^] of a time getting Batman and Superman movies off the ground. You think theyre receptive to a Captain Marvel movie now?

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How can you tell which Heritage/eBay auctions didn't meet reserve? I've looked at dozens of auctions and it looks like all sold. Either I'm looking in the wrong place or ... confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Anyone got a link to a Heritage/eBay auction that failed to meet reserve?

 

OK, I see the "Not Sold" items in Heritage's own auction archives. Where are these same items on eBay with an indication that they failed to meet reserve?

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The Shazam tv show and the comic have little connection between the two Any literary character can be made into a good film and at the same time even the most popular character can be turned into a POS Hulk being the latest example. I think a Shazam movie with Sivana and Mr Mind, Mr Tawny etc could be pulled off with today's CGI and if it was done in a retro style basing it say during the 40's or 50's and in a humorous vein could do quite well. Dont forget moviegoers often dont know anything about the property the movie is based on and have less of a mindset going in to see it. Not many people knew what the Crow, Men In Black, etc were yet they were still pretty good films that made a lot of money and based on characters much much less known than Shazam. Older movie goers would certainly go see it then you have those who grew up watching Shazam/isis on tv in the 70's and heck if its well done and looks cool thats all that matters. I think do goody Shazam palling around with a CGI walking talking Tiger and a scheming worm sounds pretty damn cool/bizarre that its interesting and I'm not even a big fan of the characters.

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I doubt whether Movie projects have much impact on Golden Age books. While Silver and Bronze Marvels seem to be at least temporarily affected by Hollywoods interest in a character, I don't see Golden Age collectors being as fickle. I could be wrong if a relatively obscure ( obscure to GA collectors, they're pretty much all obscure to the public at large) hero became fodder for the big screen, then I suppose interest might pick up for comics featuring that character.

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The Shazam tv show and the comic have little connection between the two Any literary character can be made into a good film and at the same time even the most popular character can be turned into a POS Hulk being the latest example. I think a Shazam movie with Sivana and Mr Mind, Mr Tawny etc could be pulled off with today's CGI and if it was done in a retro style basing it say during the 40's or 50's and in a humorous vein could do quite well. Dont forget moviegoers often dont know anything about the property the movie is based on and have less of a mindset going in to see it. Not many people knew what the Crow, Men In Black, etc were yet they were still pretty good films that made a lot of money and based on characters much much less known than Shazam. Older movie goers would certainly go see it then you have those who grew up watching Shazam/isis on tv in the 70's and heck if its well done and looks cool thats all that matters. I think do goody Shazam palling around with a CGI walking talking Tiger and a scheming worm sounds pretty damn cool/bizarre that its interesting and I'm not even a big fan of the characters.

 

 

hey I'm a comic collector too! but I cant disagree MORE with your last statement....

or earlier when you suggest a 40s style period setting. That's what killed Phantom, Rocketeer, Shadow, League of Ext Gent., etc etc.

 

A walking talking tiger and a scheming worm? hmmmmmmm. uh, riiiiiiiiiight.... NEXT!

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No what killed those films was horrible scripts Are you saying moviegoers wont watch period piece films? It doesnt matter what the setting is its the storyline that counts. When Holllywood learns to spend a few of those millions paying some decent writers instead of blowing their wad on CGI we might get some decent comic films.

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So how would you have done things? I ask not to be irritating or snotty, but to learn from someone who has sold more Mile High's than I've ever personally seen...

 

 

Well, here's the problem. He had #1-23 solid. Very few MH runs are still intact! That should have been a very good sell tactic for selling the books as a LOT to a dealer or collector.

 

Basically now his run has been cherry-picked and all the lower grade issues and boring covers remain. Most of those remaining books will sell for 2.5 to 4 guide, a few like the #1 will go for less (it's only a 7.5!). Even though the copies that did sell for 6-8 times guide at this auction was a great price, after Heritgage gets their juice, my friend only gets about 4.2-5.5 guide on those, and very few went for the higher estimate I listed here.

 

He would have been much better off selling the WHOLE run for 4 times guide to a collector or dealer than selling his best issues for 4.2-5.5 guide, leaving himself with the worst issues. Keep in mind everyone knows they went up for auction and have passed, not a good selling point!

 

Timely

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No what killed those films was horrible scripts Are you saying moviegoers wont watch period piece films? It doesnt matter what the setting is its the storyline that counts. When Holllywood learns to spend a few of those millions paying some decent writers instead of blowing their wad on CGI we might get some decent comic films.

 

they do spend millions on scripts. But that isnt the reason crappy films get made. Dont blame the writers!! Reminds me of the actress (blonde, or Polish etc) who was so stupid she slept with the screenwriter to get ahead!!

 

Did you ever really consider just how many things have to go perfectly right to make 2 hours of entertainment? Its amazing to me that ANY film is worth sitting through. SO many things can screw up a movie, and as Im sure youve seen on Project Greenlight, even a crappy low budget indie production with a 2 million budget STILL needs 40 or 50 people, professionsals, on the set. Thats a lot of people and agendas etc that all have to NOT fick it up to collect enough scenes that can later be stitched together to make a film thats worth watching...

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Basically now his run has been cherry-picked and all the lower grade issues and boring covers remain. Most of those remaining books will sell for 2.5 to 4 guide, a few like the #1 will go for less (it's only a 7.5!). Even though the copies that did sell for 6-8 times guide at this auction was a great price, after Heritgage gets their juice, my friend only gets about 4.2-5.5 guide on those, and very few went for the higher estimate I listed here.

 

Timely

 

When I first got into GA books in the latter part of the 80's, a useful piece of advice which I received almost right away was to buy high grade, key appearances, and classic covers. Key appearances were already broken out in guide at the time, but high grade and classic covers were not as emphasized as it is in today's market. I was told since I was a regular salaried employee without deep pockets, I should not waste my money on mid-run mid-grade books or even attempt to complete runs since this would burn off all my money. Going after the best was a better strategy since the market would ONE DAY value these books accordingly and be the first to rise in an up market and the last to fall in a down market. Best piece of advice which I ever got in the comic book market.

 

As a result, I have only one book in the Target run which is issue #7 with the classic Wolverton cover. I have only one book in the National run which is issue #7 with the classic Lou Fine underwater cover. As an aside, in my personal opinion, this book should be similar to Target #7 and priced closer to the same range as issue #1. I have only one book in the Suspense run which is issue #8 with the classic L.B. Cole spider cover (couldn't find a issue #3). I have only one book in the All-Select run which is issue #1 with the classic Shomburg WWII war cover, etc, etc, etc. All of these books are in high grade condition with some pedigrees and I would not anticipate having any problems selling any of them no matter how far the market may drop one day. smile.gif

 

I guess it was also a matter of financial survival since it was always cheaper to chase after one big book than to chase after a whole bunch of smaller books, especially in light of my limited budget.

 

 

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great advice you got early on. I always like runs, but I wonder who will be there to buy them (at full retail of course) when Im ready to sell?

 

Keys and now great covers are the way to go...exactly as you say. This run of MH Nationals is a perfect illustration. The buyer bought a blue chip run and must have been proud to own it. But it didnt turn out to be as liquid as he expected it to be when no one valued it enough to take it over from him. Heritage turned out to not the best way to do it. He should have tried to have the run placed by Metro or another top dealer ... unless he NEEDED to sell now. Better to take more time to find the perfect home..

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they do spend millions on scripts. But that isnt the reason crappy films get made. Dont blame the writers!! Reminds me of the actress (blonde, or Polish etc) who was so stupid she slept with the screenwriter to get ahead!!""

 

Hey I'm Polish what are you trying to say, lol

 

I wont even argue about movie makers anymore 99% of what is being made is [!@#%^&^] I watched Lost in Translation last night, well half of it. What the $%^& is this supposed to be about? The night before we rented Second Hand Lions which was a great family movie.

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As a result, I have only one book in the Target run which is issue #7 with the classic Wolverton cover.

 

 

Target #7 is great, but my favorite Target cover is #8 you should really check it out. Look at the Heritage scan of the Mile High, WOW!!! Awesome sci-fi cover and a classic in my mind! (and that's all that counts! 27_laughing.gif)

 

Timely

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