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Coupon Cut

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Why does the Overstreet Grading Guide grade issues with 'Coupon Cut' so low?

You have to get down to Good/Fair before 'Coupon Cut' is allowed?

Back Cover coupons I can understand, but a coupon being cut from a page that contains nothing but ads on both sides!?

I can see a problem if the cut starts from the edge of the page, but what if the cut was with a razor, and the cut is only around the coupon?

 

Is this a case of grade it as you see fit, but make mention of it when the need arises?

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Why does the Overstreet Grading Guide grade issues with 'Coupon Cut' so low?

You have to get down to Good/Fair before 'Coupon Cut' is allowed?

Back Cover coupons I can understand, but a coupon being cut from a page that contains nothing but ads on both sides!?

I can see a problem if the cut starts from the edge of the page, but what if the cut was with a razor, and the cut is only around the coupon?

 

Is this a case of grade it as you see fit, but make mention of it when the need arises?

 

I wonder how many people would have been careful enough to use a razor and not press down cutting any other pages in the book.

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Is this a case of grade it as you see fit, but make mention of it when the need arises?

 

Conventional wisdom states that a comic with an interior coupon cut, really can't grade higher than VG (although OS lists it as Fair or below), and no matter the grade you decide to assign, FULL disclosure of the missing piece should be made.

 

Now, if you want to send the book to CGC, they have this non-industry standard Qualified grade thingie, where they close their eyes, pretend the coupon is still there, and give it a Qualified grade.

 

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Now, if you want to send the book to CGC, they have this non-industry standard Qualified grade thingie, where they close their eyes, pretend the coupon is still there, and give it a Qualified grade.

 

An otherwise NM book with a coupon cut is the same as an otherwise Fine book with a coupon cut?

Qualified gives the book the disclosure you talk about, eh?

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An otherwise NM book with a coupon cut is the same as an otherwise Fine book with a coupon cut?

 

Nope, but I come from a strange place called the REAL WORLD, where a comic that has been hacked and slashed with a pair of scissors cannot possibly have the letters NM attached to it.

 

A "Qualified NM" book with coupons cut, missing pages, etc. is right up there with Unicorns, Dragons and Leprechauns.

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I'm not talking about a comic that has been "hacked and slashed", just one that has had a 1''x2" coupon cut from a page that has nothing on it but ads.

 

I agree that it couldn't have NM assigned to it, but to say a comic that looks VF isn't because of a 'coupon cut', seems harsh.

 

Let's try to put a personal spin on this...

If you had a VF+ copy of Amazing Fantasy 15, valued at say $40,000, and someone offered you $1500, because it's got a coupon cut, you would (well I would anyway) tell that person to go take a flying %^$$#!

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I agree that it couldn't have NM assigned to it, but to say a comic that looks VF isn't because of a 'coupon cut', seems harsh.

 

I disagree, especially since a small corner crease can knock a book down several grades. A piece missing from book is far worse than that, but if it doesn't bother you, what's the big deal?

 

You can get Qualified, incomplete books cheap, so go on a buying frenzy!! thumbsup2.gif

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You are right, a small corner crease can lower a comic down several grades, BUT the grade it starts going down from is the grade if the crease wasn't there.

A book that has a corner crease doesn't automatically start from a particular grade. You don't look at a comic a say "It's got a corner crease. It can't be better than Fine"

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You are right, a small corner crease can lower a comic down several grades, BUT the grade it starts going down from is the grade if the crease wasn't there.

A book that has a corner crease doesn't automatically start from a particular grade. You don't look at a comic a say "It's got a corner crease. It can't be better than Fine"

 

welcome to the board!!!!

 

i tend to agree with you that there are a number of serious defects that some folks believe cannot grade higher than "X". your AF#15 example is a good one. if the book was otherwise very fine+ should it be knocked down to VG because of an interior coupon cutout?? what if it was the 9.4 copy - could anyone say that the grading would still be a VG?? makes little sense to me. the coupon cutout should have a value attached to it that takes the book down from where it would otherwise be (IMO)

 

but i don't claim to know what that is. i think (again - my opinion) that JC is of the school that the book would start off no better than a VG (per interpretation of OS)and then grade down from there based on other defects. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

so the question remains, how would you grade a AF#15 in 9.4 that's discovered to have a small interior coupon cutout??? shocked.gif i think CGC would give it a green label 9.4, many board members would go with an unrestored 4.0 and many others (including me and you?) possibly believe the answer lies in between...........

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so the question remains, how would you grade a AF#15 in 9.4 that's discovered to have a small interior coupon cutout??? shocked.gif i think CGC would give it a green label 9.4, many board members would go with an unrestored 4.0 and many others (including me and you?) possibly believe the answer lies in between...........

 

Hey, I'm not in the "must be VG or lower" camp, I was simply stating what the consensus was before CGC brought out their mystery Qualified grade.

 

All I'm saying is that to give an incomplete comic a "Qualified NM" grade is to believe in unicorns and dragons. None of them really exist, no matter what fantasies you may have read.

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It's an incomplete book no matter which way you cut it (pardon the pun), so it should be graded as such. So, beautiful as the book may be, it's NOT a 9.4 - I'm with JC on that one.

 

Also, on the point of Qualified labels, I believe that you can request 'No Qualified Labels' when you submit your book. I'll be doing that on a book I have with a pinhole through it that I suspect would get green label otherwise.

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gotcha - hope somone else chimes in with their opinions on this 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I don't think there are right or wrong answers... and even if CGC comes down on one side of the argument, it still doesn't mean that that is the final ruling. smile.gif

 

Like Joe, I don't think any book can be NM with a piece missing.... but I don't believe in the "Go Directly to VG" philosophy either. There are too many variables to establish hard and fast rules in these cases. How big is the coupon? Was it a story page? Was it neatly clipped or torn?

 

For hidden or unusual flaws inconsistant with the overall look of the book, I like to simply deduct a grade or two depending on the severity of the flaw. For instance, if the book looks NM and it has a small coupon neatly cut out of a non-story page, I'd deduct a full grade and call it a VF. To me this is not an "incomplete" book... it's simply a missing piece. I just picked up a nice JIM 83 that appears to be VG/FN (5.0) IMO. Light edge wear and a light reading crease... that's it. However, the coupon on the back cover is neatly filled out.... so how do you handle something like that? As it's not a high grade comic to begin with, and some writing is allowed in this grade level, the dealer and I agreed that a .5 deduction was fair and the book would grade and be priced at 4.5.

 

In grades less than NM, I don't have so much of a problem with "Apparent" grades. In fact, I have the pinhole GS X-Men 1 that graded Apparent 8.0. The reason I am more flexible with apparent grades less than NM because comics in these grades by definition can have more than tiny flaws. Near Mint should mean "near mint" with no "buts" attached.

 

I'm sure there will be inconsistancies in my "grade deduction" methodology, but there are inconsistancies in every grading scheme including CGC.

 

Grading is an art, not a science. As long as the flaws are disclosed, I think it's up to the collector to decide how he/she would interpret unusual grading scenarios.

 

You have a beautiful collection BTW. acclaim.gifflowerred.gif

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gotcha - hope somone else chimes in with their opinions on this 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I don't think there are right or wrong answers... and even if CGC comes down on one side of the argument, it still doesn't mean that that is the final ruling. smile.gif

 

Like Joe, I don't think any book can be NM with a piece missing.... but I don't believe in the "Go Directly to VG" philosophy either. There are too many variables to establish hard and fast rules in these cases. How big is the coupon? Was it a story page? Was it neatly clipped or torn?

 

For hidden or unusual flaws inconsistant with the overall look of the book, I like to simply deduct a grade or two depending on the severity of the flaw. For instance, if the book looks NM and it has a small coupon neatly cut out of a non-story page, I'd deduct a full grade and call it a VF. To me this is not an "incomplete" book... it's simply a missing piece. I just picked up a nice JIM 83 that appears to be VG/FN (5.0) IMO. Light edge wear and a light reading crease... that's it. However, the coupon on the back cover is neatly filled out.... so how do you handle something like that? As it's not a high grade comic to begin with, and some writing is allowed in this grade level, the dealer and I agreed that a .5 deduction was fair and the book would grade and be priced at 4.5.

 

In grades less than NM, I don't have so much of a problem with "Apparent" grades. In fact, I have the pinhole GS X-Men 1 that graded Apparent 8.0. The reason I am more flexible with apparent grades less than NM because comics in these grades by definition can have more than tiny flaws. Near Mint should mean "near mint" with no "buts" attached.

 

I'm sure there will be inconsistancies in my "grade deduction" methodology, but there are inconsistancies in every grading scheme including CGC.

 

Grading is an art, not a science. As long as the flaws are disclosed, I think it's up to the collector to decide how he/she would interpret unusual grading scenarios.

 

You have a beautiful collection BTW. acclaim.gifflowerred.gif

 

thanks for both the input and the compliment grin.gif

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A book that has a corner crease doesn't automatically start from a particular grade. You don't look at a comic a say "It's got a corner crease. It can't be better than Fine"

 

I would argue that a corner crease DOES automatically lower a book down to a certain grade, and that the starting grade directly relates to the crease's length, color break, and paper fiber break severity. Very tiny ones could be on books as high as 9.8, with longer ones knocking grade all the way down to the VG or Fine level if it's long enough or breaks color/paper fiber enough. It's impossible to describe a defect's impact on grade without also considering the severity and location of that defect.

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Just one more thing I want to say on this..

According to the Overstreet Grading Guide 2nd Edition, you can have a comic in GD/FR condition, with up to 10% of the back-cover missing, BUT you can't have a coupon cut!

You can have a GD/FR comic with a cover that looks like it was used as a towel, but it can't have a coupon cut!

You can have a GD/FR comic that is about to fall apart, but you can't have a coupon cut!

Because, the Overstreet Grading Guide 2nd Edition states that you can only have a coupon cut when you get to FAIR!

sign-rantpost.gif

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That's the problem with the Overstreet Grading Guide...it doesn't address just how much impact single, significant defects should have on books that are otherwise high grade which led CGC to develop the Qualified grade. I'd say that's the biggest missing element of grading in that most recent 2002 edition.

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