Overstreet Mistakes

[Mac Man]

Don't know why I'm bothering, especially since there's always such politeness and respect on these boards for fellow human beings. I particularly love the insults toward my doctoral degree, which is *offered* by the University of Baltimore but *recognized* everywhere as exactly what it is - a terminal doctorate that took years of my life and extensive theoretical and practical work. But that's OK, insult away. And just to clarify as I take it some others already did:

 

"Part of the confusion may be that the thesis "The Bronze Age started the night Gwen Stacy died" was Arnold Blumberg's in an article he wrote a few years ago in Overstreet. "

 

This is the line that apparently started all this, and it's wrong. Jeff and I - and yes, we were the editorial heads of Overstreet at the time and Bob stood behind everything we said - wrote that article to try to clarify the Overstreet reasoning behind the various Age labels and throw out some new ways of looking at them. Nothing was really changed or moved at all, and never once did I even entertain the notion that 1973 or Gwen's death should be the *start* of the Bronze Age. What we were instead offering as a way of thinking was that the Ages could be seen not just in terms of single-issue turning points but rather as years-long "shifts" during which one Age gave way to another. In that article we suggested that the Bronze Age, which began with GL/GA #76 and so on, could be seen to settle fully into itself when Gwen's death rolled around. That's all. The start wasn't moving at all, we were just suggesting a transition period that ended in '73.

 

But keep on misquoting me and insulting my genuine academic work and credentials if it makes you feel better about yourselves.

 

Sorry, kind of funny. There is a feel of brotherly love here sometimes, isn't there?

 

Joking aside, I thoroughly agree with your notions of Ages as being transitional. Aside from Action 1 (which I mentioned earlier), each period is typified by a set of different characteristics and traits, and I think people will find it problematic at best to demonstrate one particular book as generating these new shifts. These changes gradually, and some titles in a company take a little longer to begin shifting into the next age than others. Looking at your view on ASM 121 as the end of the transition period (where as ASM 96 would be the intiator for this series), I think there is validity in that assessment.

 

Thanks for such a well-thought out and worded response. And there are many of us who can appreciate the time, effort, and everything else that goes into graduate-level work--especially at the doctoral level.

 

(thumbs u

 

[plasticide-migration]

Here are Arnold's posts about the ASM # 121/Bronze subject from the Ebay Boards. I think this is the end of it, so backtrack a bit for the full story.

 

http://forums.ebay.com/db1/topic/Comics/The-Comic-Book/400027188?start=555msg1002302687

[cavecarson]

In before the lock

I thought hindsight was supposed to be 20/20.....maybe not always It is difficult to pick just one book that marked a change in an era at best it will always be a consensus of opinion

[DarkKnightReturns]

Part of the confusion may be that the thesis "The Bronze Age started the night Gwen Stacy died" was Arnold Blumberg's in an article he wrote a few years ago in Overstreet.

 

Yes, and Arnold came on here and proclaimed (quite loudly) at that OS' stance was that the BA started in 1973, starting off another big war between us, which you guys should remember.

 

Don't forget, at one point in time Arnold effectively ran OS and had virtual control before joining the museum. So what he said was the "OS official position" was the official position.

 

Actually, Arnold came on here and agreed with you that ASM 121 was too late to start the Bronze Age.

 

And here's the thread where it was discussed - OS 34 added "Copper" to the "Ages". Bronze 1970-1984, which it has been (officially) in the Overstreet Guide since 2004.

 

 

I've been searching for where this actually came from, and it appears that it came up, sui generis from JC. I honestly cannot find any reference to this, with the search parameters of ( +overstreet +"bronze age" +start +121) coming from anybody else than JC. There's no reference to it from any other person - especially from OS or Arnold, who agrees WITH JC that ASM 121 is too late - outside of JC on it.

 

I could be wrong, but seriously, I have spent 45 minutes of my miserable life looking on this board and some others and cannot find any reference ANYWHERE to Amazing Spider-Man 121 being the beginning point of the Bronze Age.

 

Don't worry - I'm sure JC will be back to explain that he was loitering outside the mens room at Gemstone Publishing, and overheard a couple of Overstreet employees stating emphatically that ASM #121 is the beginning of the Bronze Age. He, of course, then took this to be the official position of the OSPG - and who could blame him?

 

Nah, he'll blame the VCC elite (thumbs u

 

I thought it was the South Florida Posse?

 

Nope, its because he's in Canada, otherwise he'd contribute to all the different fund raisers that have happened here over the years

 

 

Joe Collector is Canadian ?

Where do you live JC ?

[Icculus308win]

 

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

[maloney414]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Giant Size X-Men #1

 

You were probably joking though....

[divad]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Conan #1 - Hands down

[PokerKid]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

GL #76, everyone will agree

[FlyingDonut]

I personally date it from December 1971, which is the date for all Marvels to hit 20 cent cover prices, but I don't really care.

[Mr.Diggler]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Conan #1 - Hands down

 

 

 

[Icculus308win]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Giant Size X-Men #1

 

You were probably joking though....

 

Well I was and wan't.

[Comicsarefun]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Giant Size X-Men #1

 

You were probably joking though....

 

Well I was and wan't.

 

I have to go with Amazing Spider-Man #96 (the first mainstream book not to carry the CCA stamp. That is when Marvel challenged the CCA and rolled out all the vampires, werewolves and mosters. To me, the monsters will always dominate the bronze age.

 

Conan #1 would be my second choice, but I think Green Lantern #76 has some ground to stand on as well.

[Designer Toast]

I personally date it from December 1971, which is the date for all Marvels to hit 20 cent cover prices, but I don't really care.

 

Yes you do.

[david20009]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Take your pick of

 

1) GL 76

2) ASM 96

3) FF 103

4) Conan 1

5) Change in cover price

6) Does it even matter as most people don't bother to pay attention to ages when listing their books on eBay

 

This is like trying to get people to agree when featus becomes a baby, you are never going to get everyone to agree no matter how hard you argue.

 

 

[divad]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Take your pick of

 

1) GL 76

2) ASM 96

3) FF 103

4) Conan 1

5) Change in cover price

6) Does it even matter as most people don't bother to pay attention to ages when listing their books on eBay

 

This is like trying to get people to agree when featus becomes a baby, you are never going to get everyone to agree no matter how hard you argue.

 

fixed that for ya, except thedonut's got it wrong - it was the change in cover price to $.15, if anything

[rjpb]

I personally date it from December 1971, which is the date for all Marvels to hit 20 cent cover prices, but I don't really care.

 

Pretty much my opinion as well, but if someone wants to argue for the prior months 25¢ cover change or even the 15¢ cover price bump, I can live with that.

 

I also consider ALL books with a CCA stamp to be Silver Age, so I don't expect to find popular agreement.

[Prince Namor]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Oct. 1970. The cancellation of Mad About Millie. When Marvel could no longer sustain two Millie the Model comics, I knew the Silver Age of comics was truly over.

[cloudofwit]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Oct. 1970. The cancellation of Mad About Millie. When Marvel could no longer sustain two Millie the Model comics, I knew the Silver Age of comics was truly over.

 

:hail:

[FlyingDonut]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Take your pick of

 

1) GL 76

2) ASM 96

3) FF 103

4) Conan 1

5) Change in cover price

6) Does it even matter as most people don't bother to pay attention to ages when listing their books on eBay

 

This is like trying to get people to agree when featus becomes a baby, you are never going to get everyone to agree no matter how hard you argue.

 

fixed that for ya, except thedonut's got it wrong - it was the change in cover price to $.15, if anything

 

Not really worth arguing as we're splitting hairs, but a blanket "all 15 cent" start makes some books just too early. Is Superman 232 a Bronze Age book? No. Is Fantastic Four 90? The "Bronze Age" started at different times in each title - Superman 233, Conan 1, Green Lantern 76, Fantastic Four 103, Spider-Man 96, etc. etc.

[Zonker]

So......................................................................................................................when does Bronze start?

 

Take your pick of

 

1) GL 76

2) ASM 96

3) FF 103

4) Conan 1

5) Change in cover price

6) Does it even matter as most people don't bother to pay attention to ages when listing their books on eBay

 

This is like trying to get people to agree when featus becomes a baby, you are never going to get everyone to agree no matter how hard you argue.

 

fixed that for ya, except thedonut's got it wrong - it was the change in cover price to $.15, if anything

 

Not really worth arguing as we're splitting hairs, but a blanket "all 15 cent" start makes some books just too early. Is Superman 232 a Bronze Age book? No. Is Fantastic Four 90? The "Bronze Age" started at different times in each title - Superman 233, Conan 1, Green Lantern 76, Fantastic Four 103, Spider-Man 96, etc. etc.