August C-Link Featured Auction Thread...

[Flash105]

I don't expect the 150k value to be going down, I just expect the PLOD value to be going up.

 

Agreed, I think this can be said for most High Grade GA and SA keys

 

If that were true, people would start literally manufacturing these books, i.e. taking lower-graded books and restoring them up...and that's a big part of the reason people don't like them in the first place. They're not found gold, they're crafted gold.

 

I disagree. You won't see these books manufactured anymore. To get a 9.0 plod you have to start with 7.5-8.5 blue. That is what the crooks did in the 80s when they could get away with. Now there is a sheriff in town and that just is not a value proposition anymore. Who in their right mind is going to put CT and trim an 8.0 book. You can't sell if for anything raw these days for big money so it has to be slabbed. And if it is slabbed you just lost 30-45K. So IMHO the census might change a bit but you won't see the 9.0 and above PLOD population increase much unless something major changes in how we preceive PLODs. So the value of these books could double maybe triple and I they would still be below what their blue value was before the surgery. It just goes to show what a terrible thing the dealer crooks did to our community by destroying high grade books just to make extra money.

[G.A.tor]

 

There are investors out there who really do believe that any book with a purple label is un-collectible.

I like the thought process, but this is the problem...investors generally are not collectors...

 

a "true" collector would love to pay 94% discount for that book...an investor appears that they do not (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

But I think that in time, if people can get past the stigma and appreciate a book like this for what it really is...perhaps the most popular comic book of all-time, preserved better than most of the remaining copies in existence...it will be hard for people to want to continue to pay 15X the price (or if it dropped to 4K like you suggested "could" happen, then 37.5X the price) just to have a copy without trimming and color touch.

 

If they continue to do so, they really do appear to be sending the message (for better or worse) that they hate trimming and color touch far more than they love the preservation of the book and the book itself.

 

I just don't think that trend will continue to the same extent as time goes on.

 

You have now compared that Apparent 9.0's price to universal 9.0 price at least four times in this thread...you really need to stop doing that. The book was not a 9.0 before the trimming and color touch, and that makes all the difference. What was this book's grade prior to resto, and what would it be if existing resto were removed? If you can't give me those figures, then you've just taken your first steps beyond your hypothesis and into the reality of assigning values to restored comics.

 

The trend will continue, and it's not because people hate trimming and color touch themselves...they hate the reasons it's done. It's done to deceive. People get nervous about throwing a bunch of money at a comic, and once they learn about the scumbags out there trying to rip them off by doing easy, minor work to a book, they learn to detest restoration. This is the entire reason people end up insisting on slabbed vintage comics--they're afraid of getting ripped off. The path to buying CGC books is paved with hours of fear or frustration in buying restored books. Loathing the Dupcaks out and the products of their work--and this particular AF15 is a product of that EXACT type of resto work--isn't going to change. Why WOULD it change? NOBODY likes these guys or what they're doing.

[paperheart]

sorry

it didtn meet reserve, didnt see that earlier

also its not the same copy that sold for$22k- that one didnt have the blue ink ont eh top FC

 

guess that's why i couldn't find it. the northland copy sold for north of $20k- that's the other one i'd remembered. i'm not certain the copy a-1 had was this one either, i didn't look at it closely but i might've remembered the distributor ink

[fantastic_four]

a "true" collector would love to pay 94% discount for that book...an investor appears that they do not (thumbs u

 

Not only am I a true collector, I've been in the market for this book above all others this ENTIRE year. I passed on this book not because I wouldn't like to own it, but because prices are so volatile. Being concerned about resale value doesn't make me less of a collector because it means I'm putting effort into maintaining value to grow my collection even bigger. I'm going to guess you know this well and it's the reason you didn't buy it yourself. A book like this can go for $15K (actual sale from a few years ago but the only one over $10K) or $6K (three slight 9.0s have sold around there) depending upon the direction the wind is blowing. It's hugely variable, there's no stability. Can't see any changing trend that hasn't been already in place for twenty years that could suddenly stabilize prices. And there is NO correlation I can see in the data between whether the book has slight, moderate, or extensive work done...they all sell for the same similar volatile prices. You'd think that slight work would be more valued than extensive, but I can't find that trend in actual market results. This goes back to the heart of the problem with valuing restored books--people just don't know what to think of an "apparent" grade. If they knew the sans-restoration grade, maybe, but not knowing it, these books are an unknown quantity. Not many people throw tens of thousands of dollars at unknown quantities.

 

The ultimate example of volatility on this exact book is the 9.6 slightly restored copy--$8K in 2003, I think it went for $15K around 2005 on ComicLink, and then $50K in 2008. I almost won that book in 2003 and obviously regret not just bidding $10K having seen the subsequent sales. This is a fun book to track...I kinda hope it comes back up for sale again, it's a fascinating barometer for the restored market since it's such an extreme example.

[trmoore54]

What are people's thoughts about this weird copy of TEC 27? Anyone surprised by the current bidding at $5550?

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FFocused%3D1%26pg%3D1%23Item%5F855766&id=855766

 

 

[Bosco685]

What are people's thoughts about this weird copy of TEC 27? Anyone surprised by the current bidding at $5550?

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FFocused%3D1%26pg%3D1%23Item%5F855766&id=855766

[SolitaireOne]

the spidey 24 9.6 white went for $6200

 

late last year another 9.6 white (could be the same book ) went for $22000

 

Yeah, prices still appear to be wishy-washy on some books, right?

 

I've been watching/considering a Conan 9.6 for my registry for a bit now. Most WP copies easily reach into the mid-$1200 to $1500 range, off-page-quality copies often a bit less. Then this OW-White 9.6 Conan closes for only $895?!

 

Granted that lower staple looks a bit off-color to me, but it's seems well centered and closed well under market.

 

I feel as if I missed a good "in" opportunity...

 

Thoughts?

[fantastic_four]

the spidey 24 9.6 white went for $6200

 

late last year another 9.6 white (could be the same book ) went for $22000

 

Yeah, prices still appear to be wishy-washy on some books, right?

 

This is expected by most people who were closely watching the Marvel auction market last year. There were 2-3 people paying unsustainably high prices for almost all early Census-topping Marvels last year, but 1 or 2 of those rich guys aren't bidding now, or at least they're not bidding at those same 4x to 10x prior market high prices anymore. GPA will look out of whack for Census-topping Silver Marvels on 2008/2009 data for quite a while.

 

I agree with drdonaldblake, that FF #52 CGC 9.6 that went for $4k a few months ago was a great buy. It would have sold for $10K to $20K last summer and should see higher totals in the very near future.

[SolitaireOne]

This is expected by most people who were closely watching the Marvel auction market last year. There were 2-3 people paying unsustainably high prices for almost all early Census-topping Marvels last year, but 1 or 2 of those rich guys aren't bidding now...

Undestandable and of course, it's an auction, so go figure. Seems like some buying opportunities on certain HG keys is apt to continue -- I just need to be the man at the right place and time to take my shot.

 

[VintageComics]

the spidey 24 9.6 white went for $6200

 

late last year another 9.6 white (could be the same book ) went for $22000

some real interesting pricves on hgih grade spideys- some real strong, others down

 

FF's appear to be finsihing strong- comapred to recent hgih grade ff's

doug schmellhad teh valpraiso 9.6 ff 52 go for jsut over $4k?? from memory 0 i shldve bid on that book!!

 

the 9,.4 ff 52 looks like it will finish over $4k

 

never did understand that price and i believe it happened twice. i also believe this book was in SD and had a $20k sticker on it.

 

It was and the seller would not budge on his price.

[fantastic_four]

the spidey 24 9.6 white went for $6200

 

late last year another 9.6 white (could be the same book ) went for $22000

some real interesting pricves on hgih grade spideys- some real strong, others down

 

FF's appear to be finsihing strong- comapred to recent hgih grade ff's

doug schmellhad teh valpraiso 9.6 ff 52 go for jsut over $4k?? from memory 0 i shldve bid on that book!!

 

the 9,.4 ff 52 looks like it will finish over $4k

 

never did understand that price and i believe it happened twice. i also believe this book was in SD and had a $20k sticker on it.

 

It was and the seller would not budge on his price.

 

Reality kicked in faster than I figured...I thought I'd see 20K stickers on early Marvel 9.6s for 2-3 years before the market returned back down from the heavens.

[ComicConnoisseur]

That is me chasing that book. I think i am single handedly responsible for raising the price of asm's in 8 and 8.5 over the past while as i try to get one for my run. With 10 seconds left the book was at 21000 and a but in a snipe for 26755 so i lost by not even a full bid. Same with the heritage auction earlier this month i lost the 8.5 by a half bid (i think that is what heritage calls it) and it went for 28860 including juice. There are 4 copies out there at 7.5 right now all asking about 14000 and they are not selling. Wish I could be satisfied with one of them.

 

Just keep chasing without going overboard...there are PLENTY of high-grade Spidey #1s to be had, you get several chances per year. I didn't get my copy until last year after having watched it pass for almost a decade. The book doesn't jump exponentially like the major Marvel keys since it's really a #2 issue, time isn't usually your enemy on that issue, at least not as much as it often has been on the other keys.

 

Agree completely. I am already streching what I feel the price should be on a 8.5. In my mind it is about a 24-25K book in 8.5 and a 18-20K in 8.0. It really is not that rare of a book.

It is rare if you compare it to books like Hulk #181, I have been tracking both these books for awhile.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Brave And The Bold #28 CGC 8.0 breaks $10K!

 

This book is hot!

The new Showcase #22 ?

[ComicConnoisseur]

this might be the wackiest result for the 1st night..

 

my 9.6 went for 1/3 of that just a few months earlier on CL

 

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault%2Easp%3FFocused%3D1%26x%3D0%26y%3D0%26pg%3D31%23Item%5F856713&id=856713

Honestly there looks to be a flood of Spideys of high grade post issue 60. There seems to be a lot of supply for them, maybe its the post 1968 effect taken place?

[ComicConnoisseur]

Anybody here win the AF 15 9.0 PLOD at $9101? I'm thinking if I could've negotiated that going in I definitely would've pulled the trigger...

 

 

 

A TRIMMED and restored copy going for $9k?? What's this world coming to????!!?

 

here's some GPA info on unrestored 9.0:

 

9.0 Jul-2010

 

2010 (1) $150,000Hi

 

2004 (1) $48,000Hi

 

2002 (1) $36,800Hi

 

so, this resto'd 9.0 went for 6% of recent unresto'd. pretty harsh considering the book it is and the grade. jus' my

 

 

It's a bit beyond harsh; but it is the market.

 

To me, it sends a kind of message that I predict might soften as time goes on.

 

When I see someone pay 150k for an unrestored 9.0 but under 10k for a trimmed copy w/color touch, it's almost as though the market is saying the degree of preservation is almost insignificant as some will pay 140k more to get the copy without the trim and color touch.

 

Now if this 9.0 PLOD was never trimmed and never color touched, would it be a 9.0, an 8.5, an 8.0, etc? It would still be a HG most likely, well preserved albeit not perfect.

 

But collectors in todays market are so turned off by trimming (especially) and color touch because of the stigma created by people trying to deceive by means of restoring a book.

 

It would bother me beyond words if I bought a book raw that was advertised as unrestored only to have it come back with a purple label. But once it's slabbed, you know what you're getting and for me personally, I'm not nearly as turned off so long as I know what I'm getting and the book comes with a discount.

 

A 94% discount is pretty generous; but that's the market.

 

As time goes on and if both an unrestored and restored 9.0 (w/trim & ct) come up for auction at the same time, I tend to think that eventually collectors will find it hard to justify paying 140k more just to be without that degree of restoration.

 

The message that I'm getting is that collectors are hating restoration more than they're loving a well preserved super-grail.

 

I don't expect the 150k value to be going down, I just expect the PLOD value to be going up.

It`s probally good for the unrestored market that it only went for $9000 because if these start to go higher then the unrestoreds will go down. The reason the other went for the higher price is because it`s unrestored, if the plods ever become meaningful it will lessen the blue labels value.

so in layman terms if the value of plods go up than blue labels values will decrease as blue labels won`t be considered special anymore.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Aquaman #6 for $1700. Damn!

 

I obviously was not the winner, or even anywhere in the running.

 

i picked up the aquaman #19 and the atom #2- roughly 30% below last sales (that i could find). probably 30% higher than what they sold for before the squishing

Have you changed your low-balling ways?

 

That was a pretty healthy price on the #19!

 

only 9.6; went for $1075 in 2008. since 9.8 went for $1900, i was thinking less than 1/2 that would be ok. hard book for me to find in grade. my raw green river probably isn't even a 9.2

Almost all of the Aquamans in the teens are hard to find in grade. With the exception of Aquaman 2, it's harder to find most Aquamans in the teens in 9.4 than 1-10. So that's a good pick-up.

 

The low number of NM Aquamans in the teens is one of the more puzzling mysteries that I've come across. Don't know if it's they're genuinely scarce, or demand hasn't been enough to drive supply. But Aquamans in the 20s and on aren't as hard to find in grade, even though they go for relatively cheap, so I don't think it's purely a demand-driven phenomenon. It will be interesting to see if some of the high prices for issues in the teens paid recently helps to drive more supply of high grade copies.

You know eventually there will be an Aquaman movie someday, should be interesting how these books do.

EDIT.5 responces in a row to this thread I better stop, this board gets addicting sometimes.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

New speculation on the first JLA.. Honestly its been undervalued for so long.

[t3quila]

Anyone win anything tonight?

 

My wins last night

 

 

[VintageComics]

Those are books that I would love to own. Terrific wins!