Ok - let's lock things down to real transactions please.
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95 posts in this topic

1. We did not post negatives on the old Kudos thread, it was only positive....same as these.

 

2. Ebay is frustrating because only a buyer can post something negative, here, ANYONE can, but in the probation discussion thread in a place where it's readily visible to all, instead of hidden in an individual thread..

 

I wonder a lot about telling our hosts that we don't want to be regulated...as far as I am concerned, I'm a guest. I join the society to help, but it's their board, their rules...and I think they do a very good job...(and I'm not posting this in the Arch kudos thread, I like Torchy's cloud but I'm perfectly happy;)

 

Actually Sharon, let me correct one thing, it is THEY who told us they didn't want to regulate -- they didn't want (understandably) that responsibility. You gotta be all in or all out. Not this half way stuff which solves nothing but creates more issues.

 

Generally, I do think they do a good job. There have been many questionable calls over the years in terms of judgment by them that I would call -- well, poor. But that being said, given the volume of stuff they need to wade through and the amount that they have to do (regulation of the boards is not some primary job) I think they do it well. However, where I have taken up an issue with them is when they start to think their decision making is somehow bullet proof and makes perfect sense. This is an example where a bad decision was made because it wasn't thought all the way through. That's become more evident with each passing day of its existence.

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If you're going to really have an honest feedback system, allow people to post both negative and positive comments in people's threads. Not just "kudos". The probation list is for the "really bad" but instead of meaningless stuff that gives little credible information, let's have a totally honest feedback option -- I'd be curious how many people would like to see that.

I have to agree with Brian here.

 

CAUTION!

Example neutral/negative commentary ahead...

 

OK Brian...your grading SUCKS! :baiting:

Is that what we're after?

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Frankly I'm not going to leave negative feedback around here...for the following reasons...unless it's an obvious Shill or Crook and then that doesn't really count because 99.9% of the members will run the person off anyway...

 

1. All problems should be worked out via PM. I was taught to try and work things out, not to air your dirty laundry. Most threads that shoot first around here anyway ALMOST ALWAYS end badly, and rightly so.

 

2. Most issues are fairly minor and this is not life and death here. So a Seller effed up and had a book up for sale that you bought and paid for and then were told that, sorry, I mistakenly sold the book to someone else. Not my criteria for a meltdown...

 

3. And finally, you could have a fairly legitimate issue but you run the risk of the person's cronies, especially if they are an entrenched veteran, jumping down your throat. As Sharon says, many people here, I'd like to think myself included, if we don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. Another piece of manners I learned as well...I save my vitriol for the real doosh-bags...

 

2c

Edited by trmoore54
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Frankly I'm not going to leave negative feedback around here...for the following reasons...unless it's an obvious Shill or Crook and then that doesn't really count because 99.9% of the members will run the person off anyway...

 

1. All problems should be worked out via PM. I was taught to try and work things out, not to air your dirty laundry. Most threads that shoot first around here anyway ALMOST ALWAYS end badly, and rightly so.

 

2. Most issues are fairly minor and this is not life and death here. So a Seller effed up and had a book up for sale that you bought and paid for and then were told that, sorry, I mistakenly sold the book to someone else. Not my criteria for a meltdown...

 

3. And finally, you could have a fairly legitimate issue but you run the risk of the person's cronies, especially if they are an entrenched veteran, jumping down your throat. As Sharon says, many people here, I'd like to think myself included, if we don't have anything nice to say, keep it to yourself. Another piece of manners I learned as well...I save my vitriol for the real doosh-bags...

 

2c

 

Tom, well said and I agree with all your points. Especially the life and death issue,

it's true how bent out of shape we get about a comic book transaction. However,

with your points in mind, why have a kudos thread at all ? It's useless.

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I think it could be beneficial...primarily, as expressed by others, for Newbs trying to learn who's bona-fide. For all of us who pretty much "know" each other, notsomuch...but it's still quite nice and flattering for people to reinforce that you're doing a good job as a reputable buyer or seller... :headbang:

 

And leave the PMing and Probation Thread for negs...that's the way I see it...not the end-all be-all, but of some legitimate usefulness...

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If you're going to really have an honest feedback system, allow people to post both negative and positive comments in people's threads. Not just "kudos". The probation list is for the "really bad" but instead of meaningless stuff that gives little credible information, let's have a totally honest feedback option -- I'd be curious how many people would like to see that.

I have to agree with Brian here.

 

CAUTION!

Example neutral/negative commentary ahead...

 

OK Brian...your grading SUCKS! :baiting:

Is that what we're after?

 

Actually, this and the points you make below are perfect illustrations of why we ought not do a kudos thread or this broken apart thread either. There's no need for people to pat each other on the back. The genesis, as I recall the kudos thread, was that people started these individual threads to praise certain people and transactions. That overflowed and so instead of cluttering general, we started a "kudos" thread. This kudos thread then morphed into feedback.

 

Kudos was never intended, as Sharon notes above, to be a thread where we gave it for every sale. By breaking it apart into individual threads, it is now, in essence, a feedback thread. If you're going to do a feedback thread, the only way it has effectiveness is if people are free to say, i don't like so and so's grading etc. Or, I found this to be inaccurate, or the packing wasn't right.

 

Most problems are indeed resolved privately. The kudos system is another name for feedback, which is totally unnecessary. The idea behind the marketplace is that it's self policing. The only "exposure" that's needed to be brought to light is the probation list.

 

Other than that, it just becomes meaningless fluff.

 

Now that being said, we're just arguing over clutter v. non clutter so in some ways, this is really a pointless discussion too.

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If you're going to really have an honest feedback system, allow people to post both negative and positive comments in people's threads. Not just "kudos". The probation list is for the "really bad" but instead of meaningless stuff that gives little credible information, let's have a totally honest feedback option -- I'd be curious how many people would like to see that.

I have to agree with Brian here.

 

CAUTION!

Example neutral/negative commentary ahead...

 

OK Brian...your grading SUCKS! :baiting:

Is that what we're after?

 

Actually, this and the points you make below are perfect illustrations of why we ought not do a kudos thread or this broken apart thread either. There's no need for people to pat each other on the back. The genesis, as I recall the kudos thread, was that people started these individual threads to praise certain people and transactions. That overflowed and so instead of cluttering general, we started a "kudos" thread. This kudos thread then morphed into feedback.

 

Kudos was never intended, as Sharon notes above, to be a thread where we gave it for every sale. By breaking it apart into individual threads, it is now, in essence, a feedback thread. If you're going to do a feedback thread, the only way it has effectiveness is if people are free to say, i don't like so and so's grading etc. Or, I found this to be inaccurate, or the packing wasn't right.

 

Most problems are indeed resolved privately. The kudos system is another name for feedback, which is totally unnecessary. The idea behind the marketplace is that it's self policing. The only "exposure" that's needed to be brought to light is the probation list.

 

Other than that, it just becomes meaningless fluff.

 

Now that being said, we're just arguing over clutter v. non clutter so in some ways, this is really a pointless discussion too.

Well, the discussion won't be pointless if this gets changed to feedback threads instead of kudos threads. (thumbs u
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If you're going to really have an honest feedback system, allow people to post both negative and positive comments in people's threads. Not just "kudos". The probation list is for the "really bad" but instead of meaningless stuff that gives little credible information, let's have a totally honest feedback option -- I'd be curious how many people would like to see that.

I have to agree with Brian here.

 

CAUTION!

Example neutral/negative commentary ahead...

 

OK Brian...your grading SUCKS! :baiting:

Is that what we're after?

 

Actually, this and the points you make below are perfect illustrations of why we ought not do a kudos thread or this broken apart thread either. There's no need for people to pat each other on the back. The genesis, as I recall the kudos thread, was that people started these individual threads to praise certain people and transactions. That overflowed and so instead of cluttering general, we started a "kudos" thread. This kudos thread then morphed into feedback.

 

Kudos was never intended, as Sharon notes above, to be a thread where we gave it for every sale. By breaking it apart into individual threads, it is now, in essence, a feedback thread. If you're going to do a feedback thread, the only way it has effectiveness is if people are free to say, i don't like so and so's grading etc. Or, I found this to be inaccurate, or the packing wasn't right.

 

Most problems are indeed resolved privately. The kudos system is another name for feedback, which is totally unnecessary. The idea behind the marketplace is that it's self policing. The only "exposure" that's needed to be brought to light is the probation list.

 

Other than that, it just becomes meaningless fluff.

 

Now that being said, we're just arguing over clutter v. non clutter so in some ways, this is really a pointless discussion too.

Well, the discussion won't be pointless if this gets changed to feedback threads instead of kudos threads. (thumbs u

 

You could change it to Feedback Forum tonite in lieu of Kudos Forum and I don't think much would change the insular psychology that exists here...I say insular in a non-judgemental way and more in a definitive way...Shaky/shady members that have a sketchy track-record here won't even start a Feedback Thread, for fear someone actually calls them out...etc...

 

Just had a funny thought...people starting faux threads for people and posting it thataway...now that might be pretty funny... (:

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If you're going to really have an honest feedback system, allow people to post both negative and positive comments in people's threads. Not just "kudos". The probation list is for the "really bad" but instead of meaningless stuff that gives little credible information, let's have a totally honest feedback option -- I'd be curious how many people would like to see that.

I have to agree with Brian here.

 

CAUTION!

Example neutral/negative commentary ahead...

 

OK Brian...your grading SUCKS! :baiting:

Is that what we're after?

 

Actually, this and the points you make below are perfect illustrations of why we ought not do a kudos thread or this broken apart thread either. There's no need for people to pat each other on the back. The genesis, as I recall the kudos thread, was that people started these individual threads to praise certain people and transactions. That overflowed and so instead of cluttering general, we started a "kudos" thread. This kudos thread then morphed into feedback.

 

Kudos was never intended, as Sharon notes above, to be a thread where we gave it for every sale. By breaking it apart into individual threads, it is now, in essence, a feedback thread. If you're going to do a feedback thread, the only way it has effectiveness is if people are free to say, i don't like so and so's grading etc. Or, I found this to be inaccurate, or the packing wasn't right.

 

Most problems are indeed resolved privately. The kudos system is another name for feedback, which is totally unnecessary. The idea behind the marketplace is that it's self policing. The only "exposure" that's needed to be brought to light is the probation list.

 

Other than that, it just becomes meaningless fluff.

 

Now that being said, we're just arguing over clutter v. non clutter so in some ways, this is really a pointless discussion too.

Well, the discussion won't be pointless if this gets changed to feedback threads instead of kudos threads. (thumbs u

 

You could change it to Feedback Forum tonite in lieu of Kudos Forum and I don't think much would change the insular psychology that exists here...I say insular in a non-judgemental way and more in a definitive way...Shaky/shady members that have a sketchy track-record here won't even start a Feedback Thread, for fear someone actually calls them out...etc...

 

Just had a funny thought...people starting faux threads for people and posting it thataway...now that might be pretty funny... (:

I feel it would change things. The "shady" people would tighten up some. BTW, I wasn't aware that you couldn't start a thread for someone else. I remember in the early stages of planning, Arch mentioned it either way. I started a thread for a 0 post count person. He now has 2 posts. In his feedback thread and in mine! :grin:
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Actually, this and the points you make below are perfect illustrations of why we ought not do a kudos thread or this broken apart thread either. There's no need for people to pat each other on the back. The genesis, as I recall the kudos thread, was that people started these individual threads to praise certain people and transactions. That overflowed and so instead of cluttering general, we started a "kudos" thread. This kudos thread then morphed into feedback.

 

Kudos was never intended, as Sharon notes above, to be a thread where we gave it for every sale. (snip)

 

 

OFFICIAL KUDOS THREAD FOR EVERYONE

BronzeBruce13

The Bronze Godfather

 

TOTAL NEWBIE

 

 

Registered: 09/23/02

Posts: 6732

Loc: South Jersey -or- Gliese 581D

OFFICIAL KUDOS THREAD FOR EVERYONE!

 

 

The purpose of this thread was to thank everyone here on the forum I've done business with since I don't recall ever starting a thread here doing so. Although I appreciate the kind words, I didn't intend for the thread to be about me.. its about you guys!!!

 

Anyway, since Arch was kind enough to "stick this thread" to the top... (probably because he thought it was intended to be a "Kudos Thread in general for ALL forum members to offer positive feedback for one another")... I edited the initial post to encourage forumites to offer feedback for ANY other forumite they feel is deserving of praise.

 

from here on in... PLEASE FEEL FREE TO OFFER KUDOS TO ANY FORUMITE YOU'VE DONE BUSINESS WITH RECENTLY YOU FEEL DESERVES SOME RECOGNITION!

 

 

Re: OFFICIAL KUDOS THREAD FOR EVERYONE

BronzeBruce13

 

The Bronze Godfather

 

TOTAL NEWBIE

 

Registered: 09/23/02

Posts: 6732

Loc: South Jersey -or- Gliese 581D

 

The Mystery is revealed.. Our friend Andrew had an idea...

 

 

From: CaptainsOfIndustry

 

...As for the thread being tacked to the top of the marketplace, I pm'd Arch with the idea. I figured it could be used as unofficial positive feedback for the forum, to show newbies or people hesitating to deal outside of Ebay that there are honest people on here, and to dispel all the negativity that tends to be on these boards.

AK

 

 

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After not being on the boards for a long while, I like the new approach better. It feels more intuitive.

 

I'd hope when a boardie posts something like "I bought from this person, was very satisfied, and would be happy to buy again" there's an assumption they are being honest. Perhaps I'm naive on this point.

 

I do think it's very important to emphasize these posts regard actual transactions (in other words, I did buy from or sell to the person I'm posting about). But again, it seems awkward to ask me to prove this in my post, so to speak.

 

I understood the guideline format to be "Leon's Feedback Thread" so feedback seemed to already be part of the deal, and based on that I (perhaps mistakenly) encouraged buyers from my first thread to post feedback positive or otherwise. The constructive comments I received were via PM, perhaps an indicator people generally prefer to handle those things via PM (those items were handled simply and quickly to the buyers' satisfaction).

 

Bottom line for me, it's useful to have a better organized listing to quickly get a feel for someone I've never met, but would like to buy/sell/trade with...I got burned by a HoSer who had some kudos, so obviously it's not foolproof (yes, I was foolish), but I'm casting my two cents on the side of useful enough and decidedly better organized now.

 

Leon

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I rarely checked the kudos thread if ever. Over time you learn who the good ones and the bad ones are and thats who you deal with. If I get screwed than that's the last time I deal with them.

 

You never know until you actually deal with a person. References are usually a good idea if your spending a large sum or placing a great deal of trust in someone. I like to think I'm a good judge of character...but I'm also unforgiving for those who take advantage of my generally trusting nature. Kudos are just words.

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After not being on the boards for a long while, I like the new approach better. It feels more intuitive.

 

I'd hope when a boardie posts something like "I bought from this person, was very satisfied, and would be happy to buy again" there's an assumption they are being honest. Perhaps I'm naive on this point.

 

I do think it's very important to emphasize these posts regard actual transactions (in other words, I did buy from or sell to the person I'm posting about). But again, it seems awkward to ask me to prove this in my post, so to speak.

 

I understood the guideline format to be "Leon's Feedback Thread" so feedback seemed to already be part of the deal, and based on that I (perhaps mistakenly) encouraged buyers from my first thread to post feedback positive or otherwise. The constructive comments I received were via PM, perhaps an indicator people generally prefer to handle those things via PM (those items were handled simply and quickly to the buyers' satisfaction).

 

Bottom line for me, it's useful to have a better organized listing to quickly get a feel for someone I've never met, but would like to buy/sell/trade with...I got burned by a HoSer who had some kudos, so obviously it's not foolproof (yes, I was foolish), but I'm casting my two cents on the side of useful enough and decidedly better organized now.

 

Leon

 

For the most part, the division, as I see it, is that new members seem to favor the new feedback, and older posters seem to view it as pointless.

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Actually, this and the points you make below are perfect illustrations of why we ought not do a kudos thread or this broken apart thread either. There's no need for people to pat each other on the back. The genesis, as I recall the kudos thread, was that people started these individual threads to praise certain people and transactions. That overflowed and so instead of cluttering general, we started a "kudos" thread. This kudos thread then morphed into feedback.

 

Kudos was never intended, as Sharon notes above, to be a thread where we gave it for every sale. (snip)

 

 

OFFICIAL KUDOS THREAD FOR EVERYONE

BronzeBruce13

The Bronze Godfather

 

TOTAL NEWBIE

 

 

Registered: 09/23/02

Posts: 6732

Loc: South Jersey -or- Gliese 581D

OFFICIAL KUDOS THREAD FOR EVERYONE!

 

 

The purpose of this thread was to thank everyone here on the forum I've done business with since I don't recall ever starting a thread here doing so. Although I appreciate the kind words, I didn't intend for the thread to be about me.. its about you guys!!!

 

Anyway, since Arch was kind enough to "stick this thread" to the top... (probably because he thought it was intended to be a "Kudos Thread in general for ALL forum members to offer positive feedback for one another")... I edited the initial post to encourage forumites to offer feedback for ANY other forumite they feel is deserving of praise.

 

from here on in... PLEASE FEEL FREE TO OFFER KUDOS TO ANY FORUMITE YOU'VE DONE BUSINESS WITH RECENTLY YOU FEEL DESERVES SOME RECOGNITION!

 

 

Re: OFFICIAL KUDOS THREAD FOR EVERYONE

BronzeBruce13

 

The Bronze Godfather

 

TOTAL NEWBIE

 

Registered: 09/23/02

Posts: 6732

Loc: South Jersey -or- Gliese 581D

 

The Mystery is revealed.. Our friend Andrew had an idea...

 

 

From: CaptainsOfIndustry

 

...As for the thread being tacked to the top of the marketplace, I pm'd Arch with the idea. I figured it could be used as unofficial positive feedback for the forum, to show newbies or people hesitating to deal outside of Ebay that there are honest people on here, and to dispel all the negativity that tends to be on these boards.

AK

 

 

yes, I'm well aware of this. However, that's not my recollection of its widespread usage. As I recall it, there were separate threads still started for people and people were directed back to the kudos thread -- as more transactions came about, the kudos thread became more utilized as a feedback thread. Also, and I don't recall this part, but I don't recall that the marketplace had nearly the volume or traffic back in 2002 (before I joined) as it does now. In fact, I had been here for several years before I really even noticed a lot of traffic in the marketplace, but that could be faulty memory.

 

As I just posted above, it seems that some newbs seem to like the idea of being able to search through and that they think it's easier. i think the only test of whether it works is over time whether it shows utility. Since I didn't think the old kudos thread had a lot of utility, I others will have to give feedback as to whether they like it.

 

 

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Those who have been around a long time AND are frequent participants in the market place probably don't get near as much use from Kudos threads as they already have a sense of who the reliable buyers and sellers are, although they do make themselves more accessible to new members who don't know them.

 

 

I get plenty of PMs about whether one person or another is a trust worthy person to deal with so this forum, if used properly will help that problem.

 

The key is to use it properly. You'll have to be proactive (and make changes) in the way you do things. Don't wait for someone to ask around if you are a trust worthy seller.

 

If you want to be a proactive business person and open your market to as wide an audience as possible, link your positive feedback to the first post in your selling thread. That can only increase the number of interested people that will deal with you.

 

If you are approaching a seller as a buyer (whether via PM or in a thread) you can simply link your feedback thread to the respective post to gain immediate recognition as a trustworthy buyer.

 

It's pretty easy.

 

(shrug)

 

My concern was with BS feedback being written into Feedback threads that did not belong. As long as it's kept relatively on track it can be a positive thing.

 

 

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For the most part, the division, as I see it, is that new members seem to favor the new feedback, and older posters seem to view it as pointless.

 

Older posters view it as pointless because they already have their reputations.

 

I do agree that is is more important for people with relatively little experience on here.

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Got another solution, and I really don't want to wade thru 40-50

counter-productive posts, but all I'm going to do is post that the

seller and I have done a deal, it was good, and no-one elses business

unless the seller wants it open. Still a caveat-emptor world. Suck it

up and move on. :taptaptap:

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