Clean and Press Bother Anyone?

[JohnBull]

This has been a great thread over in Comics General. A number of very different opinions have been voiced, so let's try and get a measure of the forum as a whole.

 

I've tried to word these as sensibly as possible.

[Zonker]

I'm not sure how to vote-- my position as stated on the other thread is: If I can no more detect the work than can some 3rd party grader, then I do not care.

 

It would be interesting to see the results of the various post-pressing 'relaxation' experiments underway, since that would have a bearing on the question of whether what I buy today is what I'm left with tomorrow. But note that's always a risk in terms of environmental degradation: heat, humidity, air can all degrade a book, even a book encased in a slab. Maybe "compression" is just another environmental factor for collectors to worry about?

[JohnBull]

I'm not sure how to vote-- my position as stated on the other thread is: If I can no more detect the work than can some 3rd party grader, then I do not care.

 

Sounds like you're undecided at this moment and you'll have to see how things go.

[Rip]

There are also other things to consider, many don't mind pressing out a really bad spine roll on a low grade book,(2.0-4.0) but when you start getting into the upper grades (8.0-9.0) people start to have a much bigger problem.

Also I see massive cleaning worse than pressing. Yet on the pressing aspect if the pressing is done incorrect it will warp back to some extent.

[LordRahl]

You're right but that's inconsistent and illogical. If you consider pressing to be restoration at the VF/NM level then you should consider it resto at the VG level as well. If you don't consider it resto then why would it matter whether the book is a VG or VF before it is pressed. In both cases it is pressed in order to look nicer.

[FFB]

My view isn't represented on the poll. My feeling is, I hate it, but I do not believe that it will spell the doom of the hobby. Not every book is susceptible to cleaning and pressing, so it's not like what happened to the card or coin market, where you could clean any coin or trim any card.

[Zonker]

You're right but that's inconsistent and illogical. If you consider pressing to be restoration at the VF/NM level then you should consider it resto at the VG level as well. If you don't consider it resto then why would it matter whether the book is a VG or VF before it is pressed. In both cases it is pressed in order to look nicer.

 

 

I continue to be amused and/or amazed at value judgements masquerading as logical arguments when it comes to restoration. Look: at the VG level, a book can be bent any number of ways, right? So bending it back is just within the realm of allowable defects for that condition. For VF/NM, it is at best debatable whether to consider it resto-- Remember the Church books stacked one on top of another for decades: Resto or not? And if we're going down the road of intent as a definition of resto (i.e. 'accidental' stacking vs. 'intentional' pressing), well, that seems to be how-many-angels-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin sophistry.

 

It's fine to hate resto. It's fine to hate pressing. Just understand that is an aesthetic or value judgement, not a black/white categorization of resto = degraded and no resto = pure.

 

end of

[blowout]

I continue to be amused and/or amazed at value judgements masquerading as logical arguments when it comes to restoration.

 

The reason I'm so against the current trend of cleaning and pressing for a higher grade BLUE LABEL is not because I am against the restoration in itself, but the dishonesty involved. This is being done to improve the quality of a book WITHOUT THE BUYERS KNOWLEDGE. This is what I am against, if there was full disclosure, then no problem.

[uclapeterg]

Agreed.

[PovertyRow]

I cannot vote until the context of the poll is revealed. Is this CGC specific for Blue Labels that were cleaned and pressed?

[JohnBull]

I cannot vote until the context of the poll is revealed. Is this CGC specific for Blue Labels that were cleaned and pressed?

 

Not specifically, it's just an attempt at a general sounding. I tried to make 5 options (definitely for, slightly for, don't know, slightly against and definitely against) tying them up with the various thoughts I'd read in the other thread. It's impossible to get every strand of opinion down in 5 options though, which is why I asked people to vote for the option that was nearest their thoughts.

 

CGC books would probably form the main point of this, but not every decent book is in a slab and I don't want to negate the effects on raw books.

 

At first glance this seems quite a polarising issue, although the anti lead the pro by 12-2. However, there are 22 people currently in the middle 3 camps and they could presumably swing either way eventually. As the Arab insult goes - may you live in interesting times.

[Red Hook]

 

The reason I'm so against the current trend of cleaning and pressing for a higher grade BLUE LABEL is not because I am against the restoration in itself, but the dishonesty involved. This is being done to improve the quality of a book WITHOUT THE BUYERS KNOWLEDGE. This is what I am against, if there was full disclosure, then no problem.

 

BINGO!