The Gobbledygook #1 and/or #2 Club! 5 5

[SpideyFein]

Hey, I don’t know what these are, just trying to find out if they’re real or not- 

Just playing! 

I was very happy to pick these up recently, as I haven’t seen a set for sale in a long time. They are surely a piece of turtle history- counterfeit or not. The stories and artwork are bananas. 

[Bronty]

On 4/12/2021 at 9:15 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

It's kind of like cerebus #1 in bronze, a hot book too, but there are fakes of it unless the creator looks at it and signs it as an "authentic cerebus 1"..... So those two books I know are like that and not sure if there are more

I think it was more to do with the process by which they were made -  the gobbledygooks were printed on a copy machine is my understanding.

Cerebus 1, sure fakes exist, but that's more like TMNT 1, where fakes exist but it was made via a real printing house with offset printing rather than a copy machine.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Bronty

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 10/5/2021 at 11:04 AM, Bronty said:

I think it was more to do with the process by which they were made -  the gobbledygooks were printing on a copy machine is my understanding.

Cerebus 1, sure fakes exist, but that's more like TMNT 1, where fakes exist but it was made via a real printing house with offset printing rather than a copy machine.

I think my reference was to whether cgc will "authenticate and slab them'

My understanding is cgc will only slab some issues if they're authenticated with the artist or some such, whom cgc considers an expert.

For instance on cerebus the artist would write"authentic copy" when signing. Again my understanding is, that some issues cgc will not slab unless there is that confirmation by said artist or someone involved with the book

 

[Bronty]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:08 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I think my reference was to whether cgc will "authenticate and slab them'

My understanding is cgc will only slab some issues if they're authenticated with the artist or some such, whom cgc considers an expert.

For instance on cerebus the artist would write"authentic copy" when signing. Again my understanding is, that some issues cgc will not slab unless there is that confirmation by said artist or someone involved with the book

 

They will slab Cerebus regardless as far as I'm aware?

The gobbledygooks on the other hand, yes, I think they need provenance/authentication from a creator.

[Bronty]

I.e.   Yes, Sim used to write "an authentic #1" or some such on Cerebus 1's.  But that's just something he was doing prior to cgc existing, mostly.

In other words, to my knowledge, CGC doesn't need that notation from Sim in order to slab Cerebus 1... so its really more similar to TMNT 1 in that sense (slabbable regardless) than gobbledygook (to your point, needs verification as far as I know).

Edited October 5, 2021 by Bronty

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/5/2021 at 10:35 AM, Bronty said:

 

The gobbledygooks on the other hand, yes, I think they need provenance/authentication from a creator.

Yes, this is accurate.  CGC is now grading the authentic Gobbledygooks if they are first sent to Kevin Eastman for authentication and then Kevin sends them to CGC.

[SpideyFein]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:57 PM, rich_TMNT said:

Yes, this is accurate.  CGC is now grading the authentic Gobbledygooks if they are first sent to Kevin Eastman for authentication and then Kevin sends them to CGC.

Hey Rich. Yes sir, but my question is do you think CGC will grade these Gobbledy counterfeits? Maybe if Kevin says they are fake, and it's of course noted that they are. Maybe Kevin will sign these as well. If they grade other counterfeits, maybe at this time they will grade these. What do you think?

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:00 PM, SpideyFein said:

Hey Rich. Yes sir, but my question is do you think CGC will grade these Gobbledy counterfeits? Maybe if Kevin says they are fake, and it's of course noted that they are. Maybe Kevin will sign these as well. If they grade other counterfeits, maybe at this time they will grade these. What do you think?

Now that CGC has graded the authentic copies and knows what they look like, I think CGC would probably grade any other edition as counterfeits regardless of who sends them in.  I think for sure CGC would grade them as counterfeits if Kevin sent them in with signature (and maybe even get a CGC SS label ?? - not sure on that part).

[SpideyFein]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:36 PM, rich_TMNT said:

Now that CGC has graded the authentic copies and knows what they look like, I think CGC would probably grade any other edition as counterfeits regardless of who sends them in.  I think for sure CGC would grade them as counterfeits if Kevin sent them in with signature (and maybe even get a CGC SS label ?? - not sure on that part).

I would agree with you on this, and hope you’re right. I am surely going to look into it and keep you posted. I’d like to see an SS! Thanks! 

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/5/2021 at 6:30 PM, SpideyFein said:

I would agree with you on this, and hope you’re right. I am surely going to look into it and keep you posted. I’d like to see an SS! Thanks! 

Definitely keep us updated.  I'd be curious to know what happens. 

[comiconxion]

When I “discovered” these counterfeits in the 90’s, I also noticed two variations - some that were numbered to 150 and some to 500. So, I wonder if the counterfeiters had so much success selling the first 150 that they ran off another batch to 500?  Looks like a lot of them came out of the PA area.  

[SpideyFein]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:22 AM, comiconxion said:

When I “discovered” these counterfeits in the 90’s, I also noticed two variations - some that were numbered to 150 and some to 500. So, I wonder if the counterfeiters had so much success selling the first 150 that they ran off another batch to 500?  Looks like a lot of them came out of the PA area.  

Yes, I'm number 211 of 500  I'm curious on these though- were these created after TMNT 1 dropped, got hot and sold out? That would be the only logical explanation. I know there were some counterfeits of TMNT 1, but not like this.   

[comiconxion]

On 10/6/2021 at 8:10 AM, SpideyFein said:

Yes, I'm number 211 of 500  I'm curious on these though- were these created after TMNT 1 dropped, got hot and sold out? That would be the only logical explanation. I know there were some counterfeits of TMNT 1, but not like this.   

According to the eBay listing, they bought your copies in ‘86-87. That’s the earliest I’ve heard these appear.  I had found a set in the 90’s and wrote to Kevin (before the internet) to have him confirm if the signature was real as it looked wrong to me.  At that point, he confirmed that they had never made copies with a yellow cover and that these were counterfeit.  The copies I’ve seen pop up typically have been in the Pennsylvania area, so I assume there were people selling copies to local comic shops there similar to the story on how Cerebus 1’s got distributed.  Since Turtles were hot and no one had really seen an authentic set, who would know?  It never became known until Overstreet had me write up an article exposing the counterfeits In the Price Guide in the 2000’s.  

[rich_TMNT]

On 10/6/2021 at 5:22 AM, comiconxion said:

When I “discovered” these counterfeits in the 90’s, I also noticed two variations - some that were numbered to 150 and some to 500. So, I wonder if the counterfeiters had so much success selling the first 150 that they ran off another batch to 500?  Looks like a lot of them came out of the PA area.  

I can't recall ever seeing the copies numbered out of 150 - I've only ever seen the ones numbered out of 500.  A couple things I find really interesting (because these counterfeits are really puzzling):

1) most copies I find of the "XXX of 500" yellow counterfeits are in the 200's.  For instance, @SpideyFein has 211 of 500.  I have two sets of yellow counterfeits - one with matching numbers for #1 and #2 (220 of 500) and one with unmatched numbers (#1 - 213 of 500 / #2 - 206 of 500).  It makes me wonder if there really aren't that many yellow counterfeits out there as it might seem and that the counterfeiter just made something like 25 sets and then chose to number the sets they made in the 200's.  I'm still waiting for the day when I see another set of yellow counterfeits out there with the same numbering as is on my sets that I own.  That will for sure add to the mystery - but it would point to there being at least duplicated sets or multiple counterfeiters.   

2) I think the reason for some copies to be numbered out of 150 and others numbered out of 500 would be the information that was available about them at the time of being made in the 80's.  There wasn't a ton of information back then and I seem to recall that we all originally thought there were 500 sets and then that was later refined down to 150 sets (by either Kevin or Peter).  If that's the case, the copies numbered out of 150 would be the newer counterfeits.  

3) There is a slight color variation in the yellow tone on my two sets of yellow counterfeits.  Which is odd since their numbering isn't really that far apart.  They should be the same color if made by the same person and the same time.  Could be one set was exposed to UV light more than another set.  Or, one set was made well after the other with different paper stock. I believe I've heard others talk about their yellow counterfeit set being mismatched - where #1 is really rich yellow and the #2 is muted yellow but both numbers are the same.  I can't find the information on this at the moment but if I find more I'll update here.

On 10/6/2021 at 6:10 AM, SpideyFein said:

Yes, I'm number 211 of 500  I'm curious on these though- were these created after TMNT 1 dropped, got hot and sold out? That would be the only logical explanation. I know there were some counterfeits of TMNT 1, but not like this.   

Many years ago, I found a set of the weird blue counterfeits that were mentioned somewhere back in the day in (I think) the Overstreet price guide.  They are pretty beat up and the alignment of the covers and interior artwork is really wonky but it's the only set I've ever seen of them.  They aren't signed or numbered and the quality of the page images isn't all that great (or, less great than the yellow ones). The pages are also much different than the yellow ones - more of a glossy feel to them than the yellow ones.  Of course, the guy I bought them off of was adamant they were authentic because he said he got them from someone that claimed to know Kevin and Peter.  I already knew when buying them they weren't legit and I paid way too much for them at the time because the buyer wouldn't budge from his belief of authenticity - even in light of me showing him my authentic B&W copies.  But I've always wondered which came first - blue or yellow.  Maybe the yellow counterfeits came after the blue ones - and somehow the blue ones were the first test run by the counterfeiter and they didn't like how they turned out or something and switched to yellow paper. 

The thing I find most interesting about all these counterfeits (yellow or blue) is that somewhere along the line they had to come from an original set, right?  How else would they have been made?  No internet existed to find images of the pages.  Would love to know which set of authentic Gobbledygooks was used to make all these counterfeits. 

Super weird history to Gobbledygook #1 & #2.

Edited October 6, 2021 by rich_TMNT

[comiconxion]

Some good insights. You may be right that there were fewer counterfeits than we think.  If I remember correctly, the numbers from the 150 numbering I saw were numbers 148 and 150.  So, I’m the same range.  There could have only been 10 or so of them. Who knows.  
 

The story I was told when I bought mine is that they came from Kevin’s aunt or some relative.  When Kevin confronted them with the fact that the yellow ones were counterfeits, the dealer I got them from, magically had a white original set as well that they traded me for the counterfeits. I guess the aunt had two sets?   I always thought that the real white set I had may have been the original source of the counterfeits, but they didn’t look disassembled.  And, I could never find photocopied holes on the counterfeits that matched to my book.  So, likely it was another copy that was taken apart and photocopied to make the fakes. 

[THAWK3]

I have gobbledygook #1 and #2 first printing handed to me from the master back in the early 1980s when we lived next to.  I emailed Kevin recently and asked him to authenticate, since we did not have an acid free pen at the time.  He said he would and asked me to send an image of a few pages.  I have not done that yet, but I am getting ready to do so.

In regards to grading and authentication, what is the best way to ensure I have authentication that qualifies for grading?  Should I actually have the comics signed or will a letter do?  Does it need to be done through the Signature Series service?  

I also have a TNMT #1 first printing to grade and sell.  First time getting something graded and/or sold.  

Advice?  The gobbledygooks look good, but the TNMT has a slight tear on the top of the cover.  Anyone have a current market value for gobbledygook 1 and 2 first printing with 9.5 to 9.0 grade?  How is TNMT #1 first printing 9.0 doing?  How much do you think the tear will cost in grading basis points?

Tom
THAWK
Bernards Bakery Boarding House

[SpineTic]

Is Gobbledygook #1 really a six figure book? $250,000.00

https://collectorscomics.com/#/listing/352156746042

[Ryan.]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:51 PM, ak47po said:

Is Gobbledygook #1 really a six figure book? $250,000.00

https://collectorscomics.com/#/listing/352156746042

Those are the master prints.

[Bronty]

"master prints"?   Sounds made up.    Printing proofs , surely?

250k seems... ambitious.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Bronty

[Christian Jude]

I just bought the 1st two sets of Gobbldygook #1 and #2 (Yellow) graded in the history of the CGC Census. #1 is a 7.0 CGC SS Signed by Eastman and the #2 is a 7.5 CGC SS Signed by Eastman. Both were sold as a set on E-Bay for $7,500 with a best offer. These are the ONLY two counterfeit issues on the census. Selling for $7,500 Shipped PPGS.