Do only 50 really matter?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

There is so much more enjoyment in reading and comparing different drawing and writing styles, discovering new characters or strange plots [snip]

 

+1

 

I tend to side with Jive on this given that his view of the overall GA market situation is closer than Ciorac's, in particular when it comes to the interests of the new entrants in the GA market.

 

One does wonder though that the material Jive mentions lingering in dealers' inventory year in and year out is not moving not because there is no longer any interest in it but simply because there was never really strong interest in it to start with! But it is correct that the Marvels books (Fawcett's Cpt. Marvel & Family) are certainly less collected today than in the past and another large category that falls under that same pall are the strip reprint books: Tip Top, Sparkle, Popular, Crackajack, ...These books used to be so much more in demand even though their "demise" happened quicker than the Marvels. We've seen the same with the Ducks. Ducks were a lot more collectible in the '70's than they have been since (by this, I mean long run of WDCS) or at least this is my impression.

 

You can probably add Atlas War to the list, and to some degree, Atlas horror from titles other then the big Four (Strange Tales, JIM, TTA, TOS). Its wonderful material, and as a Marvel Zombie, the stuff I grew up revering. But a lot of the 2nd tier titles and characters, unless in HG, tend to sit in shortboxes, especially at prices close to Guide.

 

Now, there is a price at which "everything sells", though that price point might vary by the purchaser. For me, that price is probably around $50 for a given book, for some people its less, for some its more. Either way, a lot of books that I might otherwise buy, read, and start collecting are at price points well above that figure. Sure, the Guide might say its worth $130 in grade, but if I keep seeing the same book year after year, clearly the demand doesn't justify the asking price. Drop it to $50, and you have a sale (to me, anyway). Clearly if there are run collectors out there, they probably know of the book, but either don't need that copy or feel the price is warranted, so how long does a dealer decide to sit on the book until the "right buyer" comes along?

 

Its all a part of the cream rising to the top in GA, a process that has probably been in place forever, granted, but likely accelerated during the internet era. And while I disagree that the number of "universally" desired books (i.e, the ones that would be on most of our wantlists) is "50" in GA, the number is probably less then 2,000, which compared to the 10s of thousands of possible books that span the GA, is indeed a drop in the bucket.

[ciorac]

There is so much more enjoyment in reading and comparing different drawing and writing styles, discovering new characters or strange plots [snip]

 

+1

 

I tend to side with Jive on this given that his view of the overall GA market situation is closer than Ciorac's, in particular when it comes to the interests of the new entrants in the GA market.

 

One does wonder though that the material Jive mentions lingering in dealers' inventory year in and year out is not moving not because there is no longer any interest in it but simply because there was never really strong interest in it to start with! But it is correct that the Marvels books (Fawcett's Cpt. Marvel & Family) are certainly less collected today than in the past and another large category that falls under that same pall are the strip reprint books: Tip Top, Sparkle, Popular, Crackajack, ...These books used to be so much more in demand even though their "demise" happened quicker than the Marvels. We've seen the same with the Ducks. Ducks were a lot more collectible in the '70's than they have been since (by this, I mean long run of WDCS) or at least this is my impression.

 

You can probably add Atlas War to the list, and to some degree, Atlas horror from titles other then the big Four (Strange Tales, JIM, TTA, TOS). Its wonderful material, and as a Marvel Zombie, the stuff I grew up revering. But a lot of the 2nd tier titles and characters, unless in HG, tend to sit in shortboxes, especially at prices close to Guide.

 

Now, there is a price at which "everything sells", though that price point might vary by the purchaser. For me, that price is probably around $50 for a given book, for some people its less, for some its more. Either way, a lot of books that I might otherwise buy, read, and start collecting are at price points well above that figure. Sure, the Guide might say its worth $130 in grade, but if I keep seeing the same book year after year, clearly the demand doesn't justify the asking price. Drop it to $50, and you have a sale (to me, anyway). Clearly if there are run collectors out there, they probably know of the book, but either don't need that copy or feel the price is warranted, so how long does a dealer decide to sit on the book until the "right buyer" comes along?

 

Its all a part of the cream rising to the top in GA, a process that has probably been in place forever, granted, but likely accelerated during the internet era. And while I disagree that the number of "universally" desired books (i.e, the ones that would be on most of our wantlists) is "50" in GA, the number is probably less then 2,000, which compared to the 10s of thousands of possible books that span the GA, is indeed a drop in the bucket.

 

While, again, I tend to agree with you and Scrooge that there is downward pressure on the prices of the majority of GA books, as you indicate though, there is a price where most will sell.

 

So, if the lionshare of GA comics will sell when priced in alignment with the market, then there is still sufficient interest in those titles within the hobby. Right? If not, they would sit in boxes even if free or nearly free.

 

I don't see it as a productive discourse to constantly lament the state of the hobby and predict its demise. I've been around the hobby a very, very long time (yes Bedrock that makes me an older collector) and I've seen much of this before.

 

I don't know, and frankly hope they don't, if GA will ever have a resurgence in prices across the board. It may happen. Chances are it probably won't. But I think GA collecting is FAR from nearing the end. No amount of discussion here will change that view.

 

The fact is that I collect a much wider variety of comics than your garden variety CGC board member, so I know first hand what a lot of the bottom of the hobby comics will and/or won't sell for.

 

I love Harley, but his prices are not anywhere in line with the market on much of his inventory. I still buy from him when he has something I really want that isn't too much of a stretch, but using his stock as a barometer will lead you astray. Same is true for many of the large dealers, their prices simply aren't what most bottom feeders want to pay.

 

Price them right and they will find a loving home. Plain and simple

[Gatsby77]

I'm with Jive on two counts:

 

1) the vast majority of GA comics haven't seen demand in decades. Seriously--look through Gerber and consider all of the lost (ie, non-superhero, non-"classic cover") books in there. 50s TV or Westerns is a perfect example--incresed supply (via the internet) and old (or soon-to-be old/retiring) fan base.

 

2) I'm _so_ glad I live in the age of internet, eBay, and direct-to-collector selling.

 

I'm 33, started buying Batman in 1989 with issue # 437, and I just bought my first early GA Batman (# 10, CGC 4.0) last month for $508 plus shipping.

 

That's only 16% over 2003 GPA. and it's basically been a $500 book since 2004. Meanwhile, the Bureau of Labor Statistics notes the U.S. inflation has averaged 2.44% a year over those 8 years for a total cumulative inflation of 21.5%.

 

So Batman # 10 in VG has lost 5.5% in real terms since 2003.

 

I'm okay with that. Yes--my money would be better spent investing in the stock market over the next decade than in that Batman # 10, but go back to 1989 and tell my 12 year-old self who had just seen Tim Burton's movie that someday I'd own a decent copy of Batman # 10 (or a CGC 5.5 copy of # 7 I bought last week) and I would have fainted.

 

That's why it's a hobby. I may never own a "top 50" book like Batman # 1. But I could easily finish 2-10 by 2013. And after that...bring on 11-100.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I love Harley, but his prices are not anywhere in line with the market on much of his inventory. I still buy from him when he has something I really want that isn't too much of a stretch, but using his stock as a barometer will lead you astray. Same is true for many of the large dealers, their prices simply aren't what most bottom feeders want to pay.

 

Price them right and they will find a loving home. Plain and simple

 

And that's where the problem lies....the OS Guide has been telling us they are worth X for years....now collectors and dealers have to face the reality that they are actually worth X minus whatever in order for people to buy them.

 

Its always a bloody intersection when reality and expectation collide.

[Hamlet]

Yeah, the Guide being too high for certain titles has created broken markets for some of them.

 

One example-

 

I've become a half-hearted collector of Captain Midnight at the right price. I think the covers are kinda cool and it is actually a GA run I have the funds to collect. However, in the grade I generally target (VG-FN), they don't sell at guide (the Rayboy covers and the sci-fi themed issues might do a little better than the others). I become interested at about half guide, which seems to mirror the $50/book you mention.

 

Ebay sales and the board sales I've seen seem to support this being about the actual market value of these books. However, there are a massive number of these books out there with dealers in various venues trying to get guide for them.

 

And they just sit.

 

I'm not sure what the sellers are hoping is going to happen. There is unlikely to be a sudden resurgence of Captain Midnight collectors. Any new Captain Midnight collectors are likely to be drawn to the series mainly because it is affordable.

 

 

Now, there is a price at which "everything sells", though that price point might vary by the purchaser. For me, that price is probably around $50 for a given book, for some people its less, for some its more. Either way, a lot of books that I might otherwise buy, read, and start collecting are at price points well above that figure. Sure, the Guide might say its worth $130 in grade, but if I keep seeing the same book year after year, clearly the demand doesn't justify the asking price. Drop it to $50, and you have a sale (to me, anyway). Clearly if there are run collectors out there, they probably know of the book, but either don't need that copy or feel the price is warranted, so how long does a dealer decide to sit on the book until the "right buyer" comes along?

 

Its all a part of the cream rising to the top in GA, a process that has probably been in place forever, granted, but likely accelerated during the internet era. And while I disagree that the number of "universally" desired books (i.e, the ones that would be on most of our wantlists) is "50" in GA, the number is probably less then 2,000, which compared to the 10s of thousands of possible books that span the GA, is indeed a drop in the bucket.

[Ted Knight]

Yeah, the Guide being too high for certain titles has created broken markets for some of them.

 

One example-

 

I've become a half-hearted collector of Captain Midnight at the right price. I think the covers are kinda cool and it is actually a GA run I have the funds to collect. However, in the grade I generally target (VG-FN), they don't sell at guide (the Rayboy covers and the sci-fi themed issues might do a little better than the others). I become interested at about half guide, which seems to mirror the $50/book you mention.

 

Ebay sales and the board sales I've seen seem to support this being about the actual market value of these books. However, there are a massive number of these books out there with dealers in various venues trying to get guide for them.

 

And they just sit.

 

I'm not sure what the sellers are hoping is going to happen. There is unlikely to be a sudden resurgence of Captain Midnight collectors. Any new Captain Midnight collectors are likely to be drawn to the series mainly because it is affordable.

 

I don't think I like your attitude about Captain Midnight or paying guide prices for comic books.

 

I don't care if you "collect" comics or not. it's unacceptable.

 

By the way, Dale Roberts has a bunch in his Fawcett thread you might want to check out.

[Hamlet]

Those books are too nice. They would look out of place in my collection

 

I don't think I like your attitude about Captain Midnight or paying guide prices for comic books.

 

I don't care if you "collect" comics or not. it's unacceptable.

 

By the way, Dale Roberts has a bunch in his Fawcett thread you might want to check out.