Should the 2004 Overstreet Price Guide factor in prices paid for CGC comics?

[Marvelous]

Do you think the Overstreet Price Guide should factor in prices paid for CGC comics when they determine the value of comics listed in their guide? I think they should so that the Price Guide more accurately reflects the prices being paid in the real world. If people are paying multiples of guide for comics then the guide value price should be raised to reflect these sales. Especially, if it is a trend and several copies at a specific grade have sold for multiples of guide. Obviously something is wrong if the majority of sales of CGC graded comics on Ebay, Heritage, ComicLink etc... consistently sell for well over guide. I think they should fix the guide rather than ignore reality.

[joe_collector]

We need two Guides, one for verified raw sales and the other covering off verified CGC sales.

 

That's the only way to accurately report comic book values, especially as these are evolving into two totally different collector/spec-invest markets.

[Dr_Neff]

what he said

[drbanner]

Two guides are needed, one with verified CGC sales ( like Comicsheet's "CGC eBay Auction Database and Price Guide"), and the other for raw books, which is the OS guide. Unfortunately, the variability in grading standards amongst dealers and ebay sellers precludes the usefulness of a database of actual raw sales, so the OS averages/estimates are the best we're gonna do for raw books.

[Marvelous]

I don't see any difference between verified raw sales and CGC sales? I am sure Overstreet uses sales figures of raw comics that ONLY come from respectable comic dealers. What is the difference between a respectable dealer selling an Amazing Spider-man #129 he/she graded at NM 9.4 and an average joe who sells a CGC ASM #129 NM 9.4? Both are legitimate transactions that Overstreet should take into account equally because the grade of both comics come from respectable sources. I don't think there are as many NON-comic collecting speculators buying up CGC comics for investment as many on these boards like to think. The only people I know that buy CGC graded comics for collecting, investment, or to flip immediately are people that actually love comics and for the most part these comics are staying in the comic collecting community. Maybe some dealers who sell a lot of CGC comics can put their 2 cents worth on that very question. Dealers, if you can, please provide a percentage of your sales of CGC comics to people you know to be NON-comic collecting speculators?

[joe_collector]

I don't see any difference between verified raw sales and CGC sales? I am sure Overstreet uses sales figures of raw comics that ONLY come from respectable comic dealers. What is the difference between a respectable dealer selling an Amazing Spider-man #129 he/she graded at NM 9.4 and an average joe who sells a CGC ASM #129 NM 9.4?

 

 

Please go to THE largest volume dealer at:

 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/

 

and buy a pile of their "NM Raw" comics, then report back.

[Marvelous]

I don't see any difference between verified raw sales and CGC sales? I am sure Overstreet uses sales figures of raw comics that ONLY come from respectable comic dealers. What is the difference between a respectable dealer selling an Amazing Spider-man #129 he/she graded at NM 9.4 and an average joe who sells a CGC ASM #129 NM 9.4?

 

 

Please go to THE largest volume dealer at:

 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/

 

and buy a pile of their "NM Raw" comics, then report back.

 

Are saying a MHC "NM Raw" isn't the same as a CGC NM 9.4? I would say you are probably right and that is part of the problem. I have been going through some Showcase New England comics that I bought 9.6/9.8 a few years back grading, boarding, and bagging each one. Although some may very well grade 9.8, the majority are in the 9.4 to 9.6 range. Anyhow, if it is a proven fact that MHC's grading is bogus then Overstreet shouldn't use their sales figures in their guide because it would make the Price Guide inaccurate. Maybe Overstreet Price Guide values should ONLY be based on CGC sales if no dealers grading can be trusted? Use CGC as the gold standard and then you don't have to worry about what standard every different dealer determines to be NM.

[Marvelous]

Two guides are needed, one with verified CGC sales ( like Comicsheet's "CGC eBay Auction Database and Price Guide"), and the other for raw books, which is the OS guide. Unfortunately, the variability in grading standards amongst dealers and ebay sellers precludes the usefulness of a database of actual raw sales, so the OS averages/estimates are the best we're gonna do for raw books.

 

I like the ComicSheet guide idea. I currently don't buy or sale at a high enough volume to make it worth getting a subscription. If they put out a yearly guide based on sales of the previous year I would be interested in buying it.

[joe_collector]

Use CGC as the gold standard and then you don't have to worry about what standard every different dealer determines to be NM.

 

And ignore about 99% of the market, along with allowing dealers to charge CGC prices on their "mystery grade" raw books? Oh, and I guess then a CGC 9.4 comic that currently sells for $300, would then sell for $900 using Guide multiples?

 

It sounds like you're advocating a temporary "price fixing" scam which will only hasten the upcoming meltdown.

[Marvelous]

Use CGC as the gold standard and then you don't have to worry about what standard every different dealer determines to be NM.

 

And ignore about 99% of the market, along with allowing dealers to charge CGC prices on their "mystery grade" raw books? Oh, and I guess then a CGC 9.4 comic that currently sells for $300, would then sell for $900 using Guide multiples?

 

It sounds like you're advocating a temporary "price fixing" scam which will only hasten the upcoming meltdown.

 

It is pretty simple. If only CGC graded books can be verified and trusted then they should be used as the standard. If Overstreet has both raw sales figures and CGC figures for a certain comic the CGC sale should trump the raw sale when determining the price because it has more trust in its grade by the comic world. I don't know how you get me advocating a temporary "price fixing" scam which will hasten the upcoming meltdown out of that. BTW, when is the upcoming meltdown due? Or is it past due? You should be happy if I am hastening it so you don't look foolish when it doesn't come. Your "upcoming meltdown" predictions are beginning to remind me of the boy that cried wolf too many times.

[joe_collector]

It is pretty simple. If only CGC graded books can be verified and trusted then they should be used as the standard. If Overstreet has both raw sales figures and CGC figures for a certain comic the CGC sale should trump the raw sale when determining the price because it has more trust in its grade by the comic world.

 

So you're really saying that Overstreet should transform into the Overstreet CGC Comic Book Price Guide?

 

Hey, fine with me, assuming that the change is made to the title, and Overstreet is prepared to take the sales hit. I'm sure someone else will show up to track verified Raw sales, and cater to the other 99% of the market.

[Marvelous]

It is pretty simple. If only CGC graded books can be verified and trusted then they should be used as the standard. If Overstreet has both raw sales figures and CGC figures for a certain comic the CGC sale should trump the raw sale when determining the price because it has more trust in its grade by the comic world.

 

So you're really saying that Overstreet should transform into the Overstreet CGC Comic Book Price Guide?

 

Hey, fine with me, assuming that the change is made to the title, and Overstreet is prepared to take the sales hit. I'm sure someone else will show up to track verified Raw sales, and cater to the other 99% of the market.

 

What grade of a particular comic is more respected in the comic world CGC NM 9.4 or average Joe's grade of NM 9.4? If both sale the same comic at the same grade which one should Overstreet use to determine value in their price guide? Case closed, 'Nuff said.

[joe_collector]

What grade of a particular comic is more respected in the comic world CGC NM 9.4 or average Joe's grade of NM 9.4? If both sale the same comic at the same grade which one should Overstreet use to determine value in their price guide? Case closed, 'Nuff said.

 

 

Arguing with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

You seem to have no conception of the history of comic collecting pre-CGC, no idea of how the CGC and raw markets differ, or even how Overstreet determines their prices, using extremely long-term data points.

 

Please, go learn something about comic collecting and pricing over the last 4-5 decades, before shooting your mouth off like a tool.

[Marvelous]

What grade of a particular comic is more respected in the comic world CGC NM 9.4 or average Joe's grade of NM 9.4? If both sale the same comic at the same grade which one should Overstreet use to determine value in their price guide? Case closed, 'Nuff said.

 

 

Arguing with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

You seem to have no conception of the history of comic collecting pre-CGC, no idea of how the CGC and raw markets differ, or even how Overstreet determines their prices, using extremely long-term data points.

 

Please, go learn something about comic collecting and pricing over the last 4-5 decades, before shooting your mouth off like a tool.

 

This coming from someone that has been predicting a crash since you came on these boards. Until you can come up with a specific time this crash is going to happen maybe you should keep your mouth shut about other subjects you are equally in the dark on.

 

BTW I made the questions pretty simple in my last post so even you could answer them. Whose grade do you trust more Joe Nobody's raw NM 9.4, MHC's raw NM 9.4 or CGC's NM 9.4? After you determine that, answer this question; Out of those 3 choices which one should Overstreet use to determine the value of the same comic at same grade that was graded by all 3 sources in their guide? Are you afraid to answer the questions?

[Mushroom]

We need two Guides, one for verified raw sales and the other covering off verified CGC sales.

 

That's the only way to accurately report comic book values, especially as these are evolving into two totally different collector/spec-invest markets.

 

My views also.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Arguing with you is like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

 

Or monitor...

[shadroch]

The CGC market is either a sub-section or an entirely different market from the general raw market.

While a rise in the raw market will cause a rise in the CGC market,the inverse doesn't have to follow.

As a restoration check alone costs upwards of $50 from most experts, a CGC book already has a huge advantage over any raw book.Blending the two markets together would be akin to saying that precious metals sell for $200 an ounce by combining the going rates of silver and gold.

Why doesn't the guide reflect the values that Stickwizard gets for his 10.0s on ebay?

Perhaps Darth could share some insites into what goes into the pricing decisions,for the newbies amongst us.

 

I think people mistake the title of Overstreets book.

THE OFFICIAL OVERSTREET PRICE GUIDE means it is the official Overstreet product,not that it is the official guide to prices.

For what it is,a guide to prices,it is quite well done.

For those wishing information about actual prices realized,there are several other sources including a different Overstreet publication or GPA.

[blowout]

We need two Guides, one for verified raw sales and the other covering off verified CGC sales.

 

That's the only way to accurately report comic book values, especially as these are evolving into two totally different collector/spec-invest markets.

 

That about sums it up for me also. There really is a separate market for for graded and un-graded books, especially in the higher grades.

[garthgantu]

We need two Guides, one for verified raw sales and the other covering off verified CGC sales.

 

That's the only way to accurately report comic book values, especially as these are evolving into two totally different collector/spec-invest markets.

 

That about sums it up for me also. There really is a separate market for for graded and un-graded books, especially in the higher grades.

 

Yes, I agree... I don't think Overstreet really has much impact or influence on the prices of CGCed books, and I don't think the selling prices of CGCed books has all that much affect on the prices of raw books.

 

It's almost as if we need a Bizarro Universe for the slabbed books...

[Marvelous]

We need two Guides, one for verified raw sales and the other covering off verified CGC sales.

 

That's the only way to accurately report comic book values, especially as these are evolving into two totally different collector/spec-invest markets.

 

That about sums it up for me also. There really is a separate market for for graded and un-graded books, especially in the higher grades.

 

Yes, I agree... I don't think Overstreet really has much impact or influence on the prices of CGCed books, and I don't think the selling prices of CGCed books has all that much affect on the prices of raw books.

 

It's almost as if we need a Bizarro Universe for the slabbed books...

 

I thought the whole point of CGC was to bring some kind of grading standard to the industry that everyone accepts. If that is the case, and the majority agree that their grades are pretty accurate, why wouldn't the sale prices of CGC comics be used when figuring out actual values in Overstreet guide? Wouldn't it make more sense to use a universally accepted CGC graded book as the standard rather than use the sale figures of raw comics graded by dealers or owners whose grading can't be verified and isn't universally accepted in the industry? I see that I am in the minority on this one, but using the sale figures of raw comics that X dealer or X individual says are NM 9.4 (or whatever grade) to determine Overstreet comic values doesn't sound right to me. To me, the prices raw books sold for should be used in the guide ONLY when a CGC or other universally accepted graded book doesn't exist.