Should the 2004 Overstreet Price Guide factor in prices paid for CGC comics?

[Marvelous]

Please, try to keep up. Now, go back, apologize for your moronic outburst, and start over.

 

The incongruity of your pasquinade is imbecilic.

[PovertyRow]

The "Qualified" idea is flawed in itself.

 

The Qualified idea is a gentle voice of reason in a time of great trouble.

[drbanner]

The "Qualified" idea is flawed in itself.

 

The Qualified idea is a gentle voice of reason in a time of great trouble.

 

Qualified or Crapified? Vote now and be heard!!

[PovertyRow]

For the record I voted. Yes a few months ago on that poll (not that pollls are refelctive of anything).

[PovertyRow]

CGC offers absolutely NO standard. To offer a standard the criteria for that standard must be available, and CGC's is not - hence and thus, no standard can exist.

 

What makes you disbelieve CGC's explicit claim that they follow Overstreet's standard? Are they really all that different other than a handful of minor points that even the OGG doesn't define with absolute strictness?

 

FF - forgive my obtuseness - where does CGC say they follow Overstreet's standard? I have heard that idea mentioned a few times here but never saw an "official CGC" statement about that.

 

Also, if CGC is using Overstreet's standards, then why would Overstreet and not CGC be considered the Standard for the industry?

[fantastic_four]

FF - forgive my obtuseness - where does CGC say they follow Overstreet's standard? I have heard that idea mentioned a few times here but never saw an "official CGC" statement about that.

 

Diamond Scoop article about the topic

 

Click here to read a forum thread about it (I notice you posted to it...)

 

 

Also, if CGC is using Overstreet's standards, then why would Overstreet and not CGC be considered the Standard for the industry?

 

I'm not sure what standard you're referring to--do you mean the grading standard? CGC says they use Overstreet's standards, so I'm not sure what you mean.

[PovertyRow]

I'm not sure what standard you're referring to--do you mean the grading standard? CGC says they use Overstreet's standards, so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

Thanks FF. Now I remember the post - the link took me to a semi-blank page bit no biggie.

 

The "standard" thing - I was consolidating ideas and you happen to be the recipient but it was meant more generally.

 

Some folks were saying that CGC should be the standard and I was saying that CGC did not reveal their criteria then you said CGC follows OS so I said then OS should be called the standard.

[joe_collector]

But the key is, that CGC uses their own version of the OS Guide, which includes totally undisclosed criteria for grading Qualified and Restored books.

 

I remember when we brought up that "ASM with 16 pages missing" Qualified example, and even CGC had a hard time quantifying their rationale.

[PovertyRow]

But the key is, that CGC uses their own version of the OS Guide, which includes totally undisclosed criteria for grading Qualified and Restored books.

 

Understood there. I think criteria for Qualified would have to have a minimum grade (before that "one major defect") - meaning - "only a book of VF or better before the damage" would qualify" for, well, Qualified. Also a definition of what comprises Qualifiable damage. The 3-hope punch thing is a good example. It is a single "act" but it is also three seperate full-penetration defects. Also, there should be a pre/post grade.

 

Same with restoration (a pre/post grade) and full disclosure of what comprises restoration.

 

A real issue between Qualified and Restored is in Qualified you are dealing with the original book while in restored you are dealing with a book that has been "modified" to improve it.

 

To my thinking, Qualified especially helps further the question (I asked this once a while ago) What Do You Expect From A Grade? I've seen some folks get quite upset at a Qualified VF but have to wonder why they would be so upset. To me a Grade is a "description of condtion". As FF put it "A prime example of this is a clipped coupon. Going strictly by OGG standards, this would knock an otherwise-NM book straight down to a 1.0 Fair. So...a NM-appearing book and a beat-to-hell, stained, torn, ragged reader copy deserve the same grade for a cut coupon? I don't find that to be an accurate way to describe condition." I agree with this 1000% and have expressed same. But yes, we need some good clear definitions for Qualified and Restored.

[Timely]

Many NM comics before CGC sold for multiples of guide (2 to 5) and with CGC that has not changed. CGC 9.4 books sell for 2 to 5 times guide!

 

Timely

[Marvelous]

Many NM comics before CGC sold for multiples of guide (2 to 5) and with CGC that has not changed. CGC 9.4 books sell for 2 to 5 times guide!

 

Timely

 

Are you advocating that Overstreet should factor in the prices paid for CGC comics into their guide?

[Timely]

I believe they already do. Where things go crazy prise-wise is the 9.6 to 10 CGC books, but since OS only lists values up to 9.4...9.6 to 10 sales are not quantifiable.

 

Timely

[joe_collector]

Many NM comics before CGC sold for multiples of guide (2 to 5) and with CGC that has not changed. CGC 9.4 books sell for 2 to 5 times guide!

 

But Timely, this only happened with Key or HTF older books, or are you honestly saying that pre-CGC, something common and non-key like a Captain America 169 Raw NM+ would sell for multiples of Guide?

 

I don't think so.

[FlyingDonut]

RIGHT before CGC they did - I was selling true NM bronze age books for 4x to 5x Guide, mostly to one buyer on eBay.

[shadroch]

Many NM comics before CGC sold for multiples of guide (2 to 5) and with CGC that has not changed. CGC 9.4 books sell for 2 to 5 times guide!

 

But Timely, this only happened with Key or HTF older books, or are you honestly saying that pre-CGC, something common and non-key like a Captain America 169 Raw NM+ would sell for multiples of Guide?

 

I don't think so.

 

Just about all the MH2 books that first hit the market went for at least double guide,long before CGC.

I once blew out a collection of pristine books given to me by a former artist for almost double guide,selling 90% of them at the first Rockville Center I had them at.

Of course,the keys went first but books like Cap125-175,FF120-175,Avengers 90-150 went flying at great prices.I was shocked as I felt the prices were unrealistic but thats what the consigner wanted.Many were sold to dealers. The prices back then were much lower but the percentage over guide waas the same.I'll admit it is much easier to stomach paying $10 for a $5 book than paying $200 for a $100 book but percetanges are percentages.I'd love to know how high some of these books might have graded.I wouldn't even hazard a guess.

There has always been a sub-market for true High End books,CGC has simply made it easier to buy them long distance.