Marvel's new cover stock for the Ultimates line

[fantastic_four]

What do you guys think of the new paper they're using on the covers for the Ultimate books? It seems flimsier and more susceptible to defects. On the positive side, it seems glossier and smoother.

[Rickdogg]

I first saw it on the USM #32 andI personally liked the added gloss. Brings out the cover more

[Darthdiesel]

just looked over Venom - USM 33 and all the store copies ( about 50) had small 1/2 inch spine splint at bottom spinal corner...Chrisco told me the ones at his store were all jacked.

[greggy]

[Mister_Comics]

This is the reason why I say it will be harder to fine the MINT 10.0 among these cheaply made covers. You have a better chance finding one among the older books then these brand new ones. I really don't like what the comic companies have done with the covers. Its just eye candy, They look good so they must be. But the consumers are getting screwed again. Not getting what they pay for. Some people will see it and some will be blind to it. Its just the way it is. But in this case I don't think it does a comic industry any good. Once people realize these new books they are buying are not even in the best of shape, they may cut back on thier buying. Maybe even stop. Sure the company is saving money by selling books with cheaper paper, but it may bite them in the butts in the end.

[MonumentalCo]

I thought the card stock covers had some interesting defects, but these covers are just as bad. They seem to show wear easily on the spine. The gloss apparently scratches as a friend just picked up an issue recently and pointed this out. It will be interesting to see how these books hold up from general wear on comic racks. They don't seem to stand too well when stacked on a shelf.

[chrisco37]

When I picked up my USM #33, I also picked up Spidey: Blue #5. This series has the cardstock cover, and was perfect. Unlike the old USM's which seemed to have the "white spine" alot of the times. I had picked up Blue #'s 1 & 2 from Darth awhile back, and these were perfect as well.

 

It seems that Marvel used a different type of cardstock on each book. Did anybody else notice this? Or am I just stupid? (Be nice!)

 

Chris

[Darthdiesel]

I also picked up Spidey: Blue #5.

 

Just wanted to add to this - there are some 5's out there with this interesting defect. Picture taking a quarter and scraping it on the cover in the small space between MJ and Gwen. Some of the new books have this defect. Slight surface indentation from printing process. The whole stack at my local store was "afflicted"

[osborn_fr]

Eh, eh, the french version of marvel comics are all hardcover with gloss added ...

It's really hard to find a damaged book here... No need of CGC... All books are 9.8 or more ! And the best thing is that it's cheaper than the US versions ($4,40 for 4 issues) ...

[dolphinsrwj]

i think the new soft covers for the ultimates really SUCK!!! i just got the one with venom and before i put it in the bag and board the cover started to curl up.what the @#$! the guy at the comic book store said he and a lot of other people are complaining to diamond comics about the covers. he also said if they go back to card stock it could make the #33 go up in value

[Guest]

I personally think that all durablilty and the chance of getting a mint comic goes out the window with these new covers- CHANGE 'EM BACK MARVEL!!!

[Illiterati-migration]

I personally think that all durablilty and the chance of getting a mint comic goes out the window with these new covers- CHANGE 'EM BACK MARVEL!!!

 

Think about it this way: how many extra-extra copies do people buy just so they can get the highest grade books they can find? And what happens when it becomes significantly harder to find these high grade books? These same fools buy MORE of these books in the hopes that nobody else is going to have any high grade issues. It's not affecting the back issue sales, because they're still selling TONS of the books, but it's sure going to give a little boost to Marvel's sales right off the rack.

[Mister_Comics]

They might as well print them on toilet paper because thats were they are gonna end up. There's no way this new cover stock is gonna hold up over time. Making covers that self-destruct will only destroy the comic industry. Its not like when we were kids and we roll up the comics we just bought and stick um in our back pockets and run home. The people buying comics today are buying to collect and they want something thats going to last. There's a whole new type of attitude out there. People have been wised-up thanks to CGC, Overstreet, and others. People look differently at the new books on the racks. They look for the best condition comics now. Not something that looks like its been poorly made. Who wants to take home a comic that has defects before its been bought. Now I see more printer wheel marks, wavey, creases, dents, curling, color flakes, and nicks and tiny tears on brand new comics. Good luck finding a 9.8 let alone a 10.0 I have a better chance of my 70's comics getting a 9.8, and some of them I rolled-up and stuck in my back pocket. (Not really, just being a little sarcastic.) But you would have a better chance of bring home a high grade book before they changed to this cheaper paper stock. I don't see people buying more copies because they are looking for the best comic. Instead I see people getting frustrated and giving up on the hobby.

[Illiterati-migration]

So, Mr. C, I think we're largely in agreement here? Do people agree on this board?

Marvel's just using a band-aid strategy to "fix" the problems they are facing (declining interest in the hobby, most specifically). Why lure in new readers when you can just exploit the ones you already have? I can just imagine the marketing meetings:

 

Boss Man: "Okay, what can we do to make these almost-unreadably dull, derivative books wildly collectible?"

 

insufficiently_thoughtful_person Marvel Peon 1: "Ooo! Ooo! Let's make someone ELSE gay! It didn't get enough attention the first time!"

 

insufficiently_thoughtful_person Marvel Peon 2: "Ooo! Ooo! Why don't we use inferior materials so the books are harder to obtain in a decent grade!! Then the rarity will make them super-collectible in the post-CGC market which will mean that insufficiently_thoughtful_persons will buy them by the crate to get a 9.9 or 10.0!!!!!!"

 

Boss Man: "Eeeexcellent."

 

(My apologies to all you power tools who went out and bought crates of these horrible, horrible books.)

 

 

[Zonker]

If anyone is interested in Joe Q's explanation, see his interview at

 

www.newsarama.com

 

Basically it is a cost reduction-- the previous card stock was apparently too expensive to continue to hold the line on the books' costs. Interestingly enough, Joe Q claims it is the same grade paper as the standard (non Ultimate) covers used by Marvel, but with the addition of a thin plastic laminate.

 

Maybe it is the plastic that is shrinking back and causing the covers to curl?

 

So, Marvel, just forget about the plastic coating-- save even more money and collectors will be happier too!

[Lockjaw]

People are NOT going to give up on the hobby because the comics will be hard pressed to get a high grade from CGC (stuningly few people can realistically afford to get their moderns slabbed anyway), but I agree that the new stock leaves something to be desired as far as holding their value is concerned, especially the covers.

 

Unless you are an independently wealthy collector of comics (old and new), spending $20-25 mimimum to get a comic slabbed is not a common action taken by the average comic collector. The majority of stores still traffic in raw back issues (including some VERY NICE Silver Age comics that probably will get bought by someone, and maybe they will spend the big money to get it slabbed).

 

Store owners have enough financial burdens that CGC is not going to get as much of their business as some might think. Many collectors still have tons of nice, fairly graded (yeah, yeah, yeah, rdogg and others, the majority of raw sellers on ebay, like myself, are generalised as being "overgraders" of the raw comics we have for sale...yawn, please do not trot out that argument again, I have had some of the SAME experiences buying raw you have had, so I do not want to go there) comics in their collection (or have purchased such books recently).

 

Everyone forgets that the people on these forums are NOT representative of the "average" comic collector, rather they are representatives of the average collector who spends lots of their hard earned cash to slab their comics (for slabbing to become commonplace, prices would have to drop by over $10 per submission for old and new books, shipping & handling, and insurance/registered costs inclusive). IF that happened, than CGC books that sell for less than $25.00 would not cause sellers to be taking a bath on their graded books. This will only happen if CGC builds up enough customers that lowering the price of submissions mitigates any potential financial loss because of the sheer number of paying customers.

 

Right now if someone spends 25+ dollars and ends up getting a 9.0 or less on a modern (or even a Bronze/Silver) comic, they end up taking a bath when it sells for a song on ebay (or more to the point, their is a significant chance of this occuring). Of course, if submission were less, and comics in Very fine or less were easier to sell without worrying about at least breaking even as far as recouping your submission costs in the sale, then that probably means that you will finally only see truly high grade comics (modern and older) achieve high multiples of guide prices.

 

If sellers could make even a wee-bit more than they paid to submit a book that does not get a 9.4-10.00, then I see CGC slabbed books becoming fairly common on ebay (good for CGC, and good for the sellers on ebay and other venues...less worrying for their customers as far as whether or not a book they say is VF/NM is really VF/NM versus the Fine+/VF or less the book really is). Right now, I see too many books selling for less than $25.00 that would still look highly pleasing to the eye raw (in the 9.0 VF/NM - 9.2 NM- that they receive from CGC).

 

It would be nice to make as little as $5.00 profit for such CGC books, but right now most books that are modern in the 9.0-9.2 range are LOSING $5-10.00 per transaction. How long until sellers give up on grading their books, because who can sustain such losses for long (rhetorical of course, because the answer is not freaking long if they spend a dollar and only take in 75 cents)?

 

Or worse, they get fed up with the losses selling CGC books that are not super-high grade--that they do indeed leave the hobby (BAD for CGC, AND the hobby in general, especially bad for your average LCS).

 

To blame Marvels new Ultimate cover stock for the beginning of this downfall is incredibly silly. Right now CGC is dammed if they do, and dammed if they do not...lowering their submission costs would help, but their are not enough customers to currently make up for the loss of revenue that would occur, leaving the costs alone, of course, prohibits many collectors from giving CGC a shot at grading their comics...like I said, dammed if they do, dammed if they do not.

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Take Care

Christopher H.

 

 

[wolverine-migration]

The new ultimate cover quality is terrible. Most of the copies in the store were really crappy.

[dolphinsrwj]

the other day i won a cgc 9.8 for .99 cents

[Darthdiesel]

Yeah but you way overpaid for a DC book!

[Mister_Comics]

A 9.8 for a brand new comic. Is that the best they can do?

Check out the census. Recent Ultimate Spider-Man's barely hit the 9.8. Batman #608, Jim Lee issue. Over 200 graded and nothing over a 9.8 among these new books. Pitiful!

 

Too bad CGC wasn't around back in the silver age. Those books held up pretty well.