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On 12/5/2022 at 12:46 AM, Corona smith said:

I consider multiple panels a first full, a name isn’t necessary for me.  I also wish people would stop using the word cameo and use the proper term of brief when describing a short few panel appearance. A cameo is when a character makes an appearance in another characters book. 

While I might agree with you this is not how it is used in comics.

tech correct.gif

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On 12/5/2022 at 4:16 PM, Juno Beach said:
On 12/5/2022 at 1:46 AM, Corona smith said:

I consider multiple panels a first full, a name isn’t necessary for me.  I also wish people would stop using the word cameo and use the proper term of brief when describing a short few panel appearance. A cameo is when a character makes an appearance in another characters book. 

While I might agree with you this is not how it is used in comics.

No kidding.  Good luck changing several decades of comic hobby terminology.

Might as well offer up an angry diatribe about why people without a same parent shouldn’t call each other ‘bro’.

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On 12/5/2022 at 3:01 AM, catch21 said:

Precident in the past Shadows alone don't count as full appearances in comics.

I wish there was kind of governing body that would dictate what is a Cameo vs. 1st Full Appearance, etc. It should not be left up to the public or per say CGC to dictate what is a 1st full appearance.

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On 12/5/2022 at 3:04 AM, catch21 said:

That's great for you. However, Overstreet, CBCS and CGC use how many times the character's face appears. Many miss that detail.  At the time of publish,a character in the shadows is still unknown character. Also in most cases after a shadow cameo/brief appearance, the character's name will be in Bold in the full appearance issue.

You must be :censored: joking, right?

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On 12/5/2022 at 6:43 PM, 500Club said:

No kidding.  Good luck changing several decades of comic hobby terminology.

Might as well offer up an angry diatribe about why people without a same parent shouldn’t call each other ‘bro’.

The people who started using it incorrectly decades ago stopped doing so (at least mostly) years ago. If they can change, nobody else has any excuse to not do the same

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On 12/5/2022 at 9:04 PM, captainzombie said:

I wish there was kind of governing body that would dictate what is a Cameo vs. 1st Full Appearance, etc. It should not be left up to the public or per say CGC to dictate what is a 1st full appearance.

It really doesn't take that much intelligence and comprehension to discern the difference. There's no reason it should be such an issue, despite some of the... interesting storytelling that has been used at times in comics.

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On 12/5/2022 at 9:04 PM, captainzombie said:

I wish there was kind of governing body that would dictate what is a Cameo vs. 1st Full Appearance, etc. It should not be left up to the public or per say CGC to dictate what is a 1st full appearance.

Read that again. You want a governing body to tell us what we should think about a Cameo & First app? This wasn't a huge issue till the last
few years as speculators join the market in mass numbers and tried to push books that for decades had been one or the other? Let the 
market decide it has for decades.

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On 12/5/2022 at 10:04 PM, captainzombie said:

I wish there was kind of governing body that would dictate what is a Cameo vs. 1st Full Appearance, etc. It should not be left up to the public or per say CGC to dictate what is a 1st full appearance.

Let's examine that for a sec and pretend that one is going to be created. Who's on the panel? And who decides who's on the panel? It would become a big political debate and still people would continue to disagree regardless of what the panel decided. 

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On 12/5/2022 at 8:14 PM, Lazyboy said:

The people who started using it incorrectly decades ago stopped doing so (at least mostly) years ago. If they can change, nobody else has any excuse to not do the same

It entered the lexicon long ago, and I still find the comic hobby use of ‘cameo’ in wide use today at shows and among collectors. (shrug)

To me, the term and debating it really comes a distant second to trying to figure out how the market determines sometimes what the money book is when a new character is introduced.

 

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On 12/5/2022 at 7:07 PM, Lazyboy said:

You must be :censored: joking, right?

InHumans 5, Yelena Belova multiple panels no face. It was labeled 1st appearance but with a clause. The 1st issue that showed her face,Black Widow 1 was labeled 1st full appearance.  You should know Venom.  Jimmy Olsen 134  Darkseid-Two panels 1st apearance in cameo. Invincible Iron Man 7 one face panel-1st appearance in Cameo. Alpha Flight -Uncanny X-men 120  1st appearance in cameo - 1 face panel. Jim Rhodes- 3 face panels-1st appearance.

Edited by catch21
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On 12/5/2022 at 7:33 PM, fastballspecial said:

Read that again. You want a governing body to tell us what we should think about a Cameo & First app? This wasn't a huge issue till the last
few years as speculators join the market in mass numbers and tried to push books that for decades had been one or the other? Let the 
market decide it has for decades.

Market only decides value not what's 1st appearance, 1st appearance in cameo, 1st full appearance or predates. 

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On 12/5/2022 at 7:43 PM, 500Club said:

No kidding.  Good luck changing several decades of comic hobby terminology.

Might as well offer up an angry diatribe about why people without a same parent shouldn’t call each other ‘bro’.

This definition  originally comes from Overstreet editions that are quite old.

 

Honestly isn't the cameo itself more important when we are discussing narrative?  That cameo that usually happens at the end of the book is the the awesome splash that gets you to buy the next book. The shadowy appearance builds interest which also gets you to buy the next book.    That next book usually has the first cover appearance which is really what gets people to buy it not because it is a full. Before the web people  believed a lot of  erroneous information about comics that could not be corrected at the speeds we have today.  So when we say that things have been done a certain way for many decades so what should it change? Well....

I would argue that the cameo is far more important as a first cover most first fulls aka 2nd firsts.

 

Edited by MrWeen
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On 12/6/2022 at 1:25 PM, MrWeen said:

I would argue that the cameo is far more important as a first cover most first fulls aka 2nd firsts.

 

On 12/5/2022 at 7:04 PM, captainzombie said:

I wish there was kind of governing body that would dictate what is a Cameo vs. 1st Full Appearance, etc. It should not be left up to the public or per say CGC to dictate what is a 1st full appearance.

Both of you are editing out key words which makes it confusing to most people. It's "1st appearance in cameo" NOT "cameo". Those are two different types of appearances. You both are shortcuting my words, cgc, cbcs, and overstreet words. 

Edited by catch21
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On 12/5/2022 at 8:34 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Let's examine that for a sec and pretend that one is going to be created. Who's on the panel? And who decides who's on the panel? It would become a big political debate and still people would continue to disagree regardless of what the panel decided. 

In most cases after the 1st appearance in Cameo, in the 1st full appearance issue the writer/editor will have the character's name in bold black. After the 1st appearance or 1st full appearance issue,  the character who is being intruduced name will no longer be in bold black. This is why Batman 657 should be 1st full appearance.

Edited by catch21
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On 12/6/2022 at 5:05 PM, catch21 said:

 

Both of you are editing out key words which makes it confusing to most people. It's "1st appearance in cameo" NOT "cameo". Those are two different types of appearances. You both are shortcuting my words, cgc, cbcs, and overstreet words. 

 I understand what you said!

 

Here are Overstreet's definitions as they have always been.

CAMEO-The brief appearance of one character in the strip of another.

     This makes sense in comics because the nature of serialized story telling almost always puts a new character's first as a cameo.  They are unknown and new....to another character's book.

DEBUT ( First appearance ) The first time a character appears anywhere.

     Overstreet doesn't leave much open to debate with this definition.

The value may often be in the first full but that has little to do with story and more to do with cover. Honestly, I can see why the first time we fully see a character after having been teased in shadow results in a more desirable book. Just don't tell me it is a first appearance.

Edited by MrWeen
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On 12/5/2022 at 3:12 PM, kimik said:

He will be as involved as Feige is for the MCU. Hopefully he can be as successful.

Being released in 2023 and the -script and filming isn't done yet and Gunn will be involved now? I don't see how it can be released in 2023 then.

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On 12/6/2022 at 2:27 PM, MrWeen said:

NO I understand what you said.

CAMEO-The brief appearance of one character in the strip of another.

 

DEBUT ( First appearance ) The first time a character appears anywhere.

The value may often be in the first full but that has little to do with story and more to do with cover. Honestly, I can see why the first time we fully see a character after having been teased in shadow results in a more desirable book. Just don't tell me it is a first appearance.

I know you understand.  By saying "CAMEO"  and  not "1st appearance in Cameo" you are changing the meaning.

You are right. Batman can still have a cameo appearance in other books. However, Batman can no longer have a "1st appearance in cameo".

Edited by catch21
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On 12/6/2022 at 3:31 PM, ygogolak said:

Being released in 2023 and the -----script and filming isn't done yet and Gunn will be involved now? I don't see how it can be released in 2023 then.

Gunn was likely involved in their projects for a while now behind the scenes playing the game to move up. If he is the one putting out these posts now, you can bet that he was a backer of these projects during Hamada's time running WB into the ground (and may be a reason why Hamada projects were scrapped at the end if Zaslav asked him what he thought about them). Blue Beetle fits with his pattern of taking B or C list properties and building them up.

Remember, Feige does not direct/write the films, he oversees them. That is all Gunn needs to do with Blue Beetle.

Edited by kimik
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On 12/6/2022 at 2:25 PM, MrWeen said:
On 12/5/2022 at 5:43 PM, 500Club said:

No kidding.  Good luck changing several decades of comic hobby terminology.

Might as well offer up an angry diatribe about why people without a same parent shouldn’t call each other ‘bro’.

This definition  originally comes from Overstreet editions that are quite old.

Oh, for sure.  But the colloquial use of ‘cameo’ to mean a minor first appearance has persisted, and is widely used and understood.  And, to @catch21s point, it serves as the verbal shortcut of ‘first appearance in cameo’.

On 12/6/2022 at 2:25 PM, MrWeen said:

I would argue that the cameo is far more important as a first cover most first fulls aka 2nd firsts.

To each his own.  The market then collectively votes with wallets.

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