Collectors of baseball cards striking out

[fastballspecial]

I think Walking Dead has shown its possible to cross into mainstream again we just dont have enough titles to command that type of response sadly.

 

 

[arexcrooke]

 

my local shop busts out pre-76 boxes every now and then...football and baseball...and makes them 50 cents. there will be stars mixed in there. i i get first crack at them they really do look pretty sharp...nice corners, etc. like they really haven't been messed with, straight out of a pack. i wonder why he doesn't send them in when they're this sharp looking? does psa do a 9 pre-screen? i could see how 7 and 8s would be money losers though.

When he does ill take every Schmidt, Munson, and Catfish he has.

 

The 78 munsons and catfish went into the 50 cent box. 76-77 would likely be $1. before that $2-$4 (other than the munson RC, of course).

 

Shmidt gets premium priced at the shop 78 and before, so like $2 and up.

 

Ok, Ill still

[Hepcat]

1990 - 1993/4 or so were for comics what a slightly earlier period was for cards. All the same nonsense was going on, it's just that the comic collecting craze was not as prevalent as cards, but it was still all over the place. People who weren't collectors were buying scads of comics to speculate on (including some folks who had just been burned with baseball cards!). How else do you have print-runs in the MILLIONS for some #1s and close to seven figures generally on some titles (x-men) during this period that had been 1/3 - 1/2 as much in the 80's. new companies popping up producing tons of product, etc.

 

But do you think many of these comic speculators were also gravitating into vintage comics from the fifties and sixties? I think a lot of the baseball card speculators were buying vintage "star" cards as well.

 

[The Less Blob]

you're right to a certain extent, although i do think some of those speculators who were speculating on modern punisher or ghost rider books might have also been pumping up prices on BA keys like ASM 129 and Spotlight 5 (and Hulk 181, Astonishing Tales 25, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc.). All but Hulk 181 crashed when that market crashed. i bought a mid-grade Spotlight 5 for $2 at a convention in the mid-90s! Old spidey punisher appearances got really hot and I don't think it was just old time collectors. Dunno if the Valiant speculators were buying the old gold keys though.

 

bt yes, i was not to the same extent, though honestly, how many folks who were investing their life savings into upper deck '91 were buying willie mays cards from the 60's in large enough quantities to impact the price? i dunno.

[Hibou]

Before I lose my train of thought I wanted to post this...

 

First of all, thank you for posting this!

 

A very interesting look at a hobby that I think is a keystone to American culture. That being said, there are some similarities but in my opinion, many differences. Baseball (card collecting) seems to be more static than comics which I think is more fluid.

 

What I mean is this...

 

Spiderman was created in 1962 and is still 'playing' in 2012.

 

That's a 50 year long 'career'... and still going.

 

Gaylord Perry's career started in 1962 and lasted for 22 years.

 

His rookie card on average is worth about $75.00.

 

Superman was created in 1938 and is still 'playing' in 2012

 

That's a 74 year long 'career'... and still going.

 

Joe DiMaggio's career started in 1938 and lasted for 13 years.

 

His rookie card on average is worth about $5000.00.

 

With sports, you're looking at a definitive time frame for which a player can accumulate stats which in turn, greatly affects the value of that player's card. With comics, a multitude of variables exist that can increase or decrease the projected value of a book.

 

In terms of fan interest... that may be cyclic.

 

Baseball may come back around again but I don't see it. Football has taken over as 'America's Past Time' IMHO, but now I see that trend slipping a little due to the emphasis on 'corporate' over 'fan-base'...

 

Just my opinion on that.

 

Comics = Heroes and heroes cultivate the imagination.

 

I don't think sports does that to the same extent or to the vast reaches as comics.

 

I'm seeing some kind of renaissance occurring with comics but not necessarily in the newsprint paper sense but maybe more in the historical / pop-culture sense.

 

Maybe it's just a reflection of how younger people feel these days with the uncertainty of the world...

 

Maybe it's just me...

 

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[originalisbest]

Hibou, your points can be argued both ways (admiring relics surrounding real people and events recorded on sportscards vs. yet another telling of an imaginary tale featuring long-underwear characters in comics.) I choose not to choose between them; I enjoy collecting both.

[originalisbest]

Oh, also, if you're going to compare Superman's Action 1 to a baseball card, you might as well compare iconic to iconic and consider a T206 Wagner, or even a '52 Mantle, the very nicest copy of which has bested $1 million at auction.

[Hibou]

Very true and both good points...

 

I was looking at similar inaugural dates to simply identify relevancy within a time period.

[originalisbest]

That sounds logical! Though I guess it would only matter if you were actually around in a given year and had the option of buying "A" or "B". On that notion, around 1936 or so there was a dedicated (if very small) group of card collectors, led by Jefferson Burdick, that in corresponding with each other, determined (at least for purposes of their pricing) that the Wagner card was $50.00 retail at the time(!) - reflective of its importance. Everything else was almost certainly a dollar or far, far less, and the cheaper the better! The recent book "Mint Condition" has a really well-done section on the somewhat sad life Burdick had. Really interesting collector.

 

Just a couple years later, anyone who saw it for sale and had two '38 buffalo nickels (or maybe the brand-new Jefferson nickels) or simply a Mercury dime, could have bought a vf-nm Action #1. It's importance would grow with time, but very likely as late as 1952 it was still available fairly cheaply, if you found one; I think the copy that sold (before the recent run up in Action #1 prices) to a rock drummer for 350k ish was owned previously by a man who got it in a '50s used book store, for the princely sum of $5, or maybe $1! But still a lot of cash to a young kid at the time. Amazing that he bought and kept it nice, one of the lucky few. Like a Mitch before there was a Mitch!

 

But that time period is interesting since right around '52 Topps changed the game on Bowman, introducing their super-sized, bigger n' better baseball card! And in that fateful high humber series, along with Jackie Robinson, Campanella and Eddie Mathews, was the eventually legendary '52 Mantle. Not right away though, as recently as the '80s its price runup began, with people complaining about ridiculous sums of $300 and up! Quite a hullaballoo in Galasso magazines about it at the time.

 

Would that I could have been on the NJ docks to stop Sy Berger in 1960 from dumping palettes of unopened high number '52 topps boxes into the harbor (cheaper than having them hauled away, sorry EPA!) Long since fish food moments after they were dumped, had they instead been saved in a warehouse and discovered today, high-number '52 Topps would definitely be adjusted down in price, but likely just as popular.

 

All skilled prognosticators who can take hold of their crystal balls and determine what is available today for a pittance but will be a treasure in 20-30 years, please PM me as soon as you can! :-D Thanks for making me think about this, Hibou!

[Hibou]

Well said and very interesting historical reference on Burdick... I may have to pick up that book sometime soon as it sounds like a fascinating story!

[mintcollector]

I was just rereading this thread and have found a lot of valid points. That being said, if anyone is interested, there is an excellent book called Comic Wars written about Marvel Comics and their 'failed' attempt in the 1990's to create a multifacted empire that included Fleer. It is a must read book for anyone interested in the history of Marvel and their bankruptcy. The book is an older book and is usually found in the business section.

 

Just a recommendation.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

While the video has some valid points and some interesting statistics it evidenced not a necessarily a decline in the market itself but a shift in terms of how the product is being moved. I'm sure it was mentioned in many of the other previous posts, but I wonder how much business has shifted away from these shows to more modern marketplaces like eBay and other online venues.

 

A few years ago, you could not get insurance from anyone except an insurance agent but now you've got sites like Geico, eSurance, Progressive etc that will help you compare rates across different insurers. If someone investigated only how much traffic an agent saw instead of examining possible changes in the way the product is delivered and purchased, one could come up with the same conclusion as the video about cards.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I think Walking Dead has shown its possible to cross into mainstream again we just dont have enough titles to command that type of response sadly.

 

+1

It also shows there is a huge untapped audience market for non-superhero stuff.You would think the big two would have figured this out by now. That`s why Digital Comics will be a game changer eventually. It will take comic books out of the niche superhero lcs audience mindset, and bring them back to the mainstream audience on the ipads and kindle fires. The transformation has started. It will be interesting to see what comic book publishers and lcs survive over the next five years.

[DvdSky-migration]

good point

[The Less Blob]

While the video has some valid points and some interesting statistics it evidenced not a necessarily a decline in the market itself but a shift in terms of how the product is being moved. I'm sure it was mentioned in many of the other previous posts, but I wonder how much business has shifted away from these shows to more modern marketplaces like eBay and other online venues.

 

A few years ago, you could not get insurance from anyone except an insurance agent but now you've got sites like Geico, eSurance, Progressive etc that will help you compare rates across different insurers. If someone investigated only how much traffic an agent saw instead of examining possible changes in the way the product is delivered and purchased, one could come up with the same conclusion as the video about cards.

 

I'm guessing the collector market for cards is even more slab oriented than comics, with vast discounts on raw cards vs. graded counterparts (even when the raw card looks pretty terrific), and it being really really really hard to grade a card from a scan whereas folks here look at a good scan and can usually guess it within .2 - .4 of a grade.... cards, being so cheap to mail, are really well suited to the ebay/internet. the only reason to buy in person is for cheap stuff like i do.

[arexcrooke]

I think that you can do the same with cards, as far as grading, if you have a good scan of it. Im finding cards to be more straightforward in grading than with comics. There are so many more moving parts and things to consider in a comic than in a card.

Centering is a huge deal with cards and learning and measuring centering is the first trick to learning to grade.

There is a large section of cards that are geared towards the slabbed market. But there is still a huge area that is raw focused. The price point to grading cards, roughly $5-15 each, I think, keeps the price between raw and slabbed much closer than in comic if that makes sense.

[Kevin76]

Just heard Upper Deck is going to be making cards for Marvel.

[ComicConnoisseur]

While the video has some valid points and some interesting statistics it evidenced not a necessarily a decline in the market itself but a shift in terms of how the product is being moved. I'm sure it was mentioned in many of the other previous posts, but I wonder how much business has shifted away from these shows to more modern marketplaces like eBay and other online venues.

 

A few years ago, you could not get insurance from anyone except an insurance agent but now you've got sites like Geico, eSurance, Progressive etc that will help you compare rates across different insurers. If someone investigated only how much traffic an agent saw instead of examining possible changes in the way the product is delivered and purchased, one could come up with the same conclusion as the video about cards.

 

I'm guessing the collector market for cards is even more slab oriented than comics, with vast discounts on raw cards vs. graded counterparts (even when the raw card looks pretty terrific), and it being really really really hard to grade a card from a scan whereas folks here look at a good scan and can usually guess it within .2 - .4 of a grade.... cards, being so cheap to mail, are really well suited to the ebay/internet. the only reason to buy in person is for cheap stuff like i do.

+1 You can send most cards first class or in a regular envelope,so they are a lot cheaper and easier to ship.

[The Less Blob]

I think that you can do the same with cards, as far as grading, if you have a good scan of it. Im finding cards to be more straightforward in grading than with comics. There are so many more moving parts and things to consider in a comic than in a card.

Centering is a huge deal with cards and learning and measuring centering is the first trick to learning to grade.

There is a large section of cards that are geared towards the slabbed market. But there is still a huge area that is raw focused. The price point to grading cards, roughly $5-15 each, I think, keeps the price between raw and slabbed much closer than in comic if that makes sense.

 

it would seem that cards should be easier to grade, particularly in person, but then again, if the differences between a pag 8.5 and 9.0 really get microscopic, yet there can be a 5-20X price differential -- true, the same is true of 9.4.9.6/9.8

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

While the video has some valid points and some interesting statistics it evidenced not a necessarily a decline in the market itself but a shift in terms of how the product is being moved. I'm sure it was mentioned in many of the other previous posts, but I wonder how much business has shifted away from these shows to more modern marketplaces like eBay and other online venues.

 

A few years ago, you could not get insurance from anyone except an insurance agent but now you've got sites like Geico, eSurance, Progressive etc that will help you compare rates across different insurers. If someone investigated only how much traffic an agent saw instead of examining possible changes in the way the product is delivered and purchased, one could come up with the same conclusion as the video about cards.

 

I'm guessing the collector market for cards is even more slab oriented than comics, with vast discounts on raw cards vs. graded counterparts (even when the raw card looks pretty terrific), and it being really really really hard to grade a card from a scan whereas folks here look at a good scan and can usually guess it within .2 - .4 of a grade.... cards, being so cheap to mail, are really well suited to the ebay/internet. the only reason to buy in person is for cheap stuff like i do.

 

That's a good point. The quality and availability of scanning technology these days is much better than a few years ago and also facilitates internet transactions.