Comic book collecting with a foreign variant focus 20 20

[Define999]

Great article.

 

I'm a Signature Series collector myself, I just got into foreign variants in the last year or so. The reason being, I want to build a collection of comics that no one else can duplicate. There are so many collections out there that contain books like Hulk 181, Spidey 121 & 122 / 12 etc. even SS copies. I've taken it a step further by narrowing my focus to mainly SS foreign editions. I won't be able to get them all done due to cash flow but here's a few I've got so far.

 

 

Sorry about the large pics, I don't currently have those two uploaded to photobucket.

 

I've got a bunch more raw foreign stuff that I'll post pics of when I get a chance.

 

Nice! Yea one of the big draws of collecting foreigns is just what you stated. A large collection with foreigns would be very difficult to reprduce maybe even impossible depending on how rare some of the books you have are? And that isnt even talking about the sigs....

Great books!

Edited April 15, 2012 by Define999

[Define999]

Let's say you are told you have a gift coming.... You as a Italian collector are sat down and put in front of you are two comics.....one is a Spiderman 129 in cgc 9.6 the other is the Italian equivilant the L' uomo ragno 149/1976 in cgc 9.6

 

You can only have one? Which one do you take?

 

I´d take the CGC 9.6 ASM 129 and sell it for a ridiculous amount of money.

 

Then I would take that money to travel through Italy for a couple of months, drink wine, eat pizza and learn Italian from my new super hot Italian girlfriend.

 

I would then proceed in buying the Italian CGC 9.6 L´uomo Ragno 149, crack it open and then read it (thumbs u

 

This sounds fun Barbarian! Could this pay for a plane ticket so I could join ya?

 

[Define999]

Very nice and informative ! But it's "1st appearance of the Punisher" not "apearance" (thumbs u

 

Tomato...tomatoe....

 

I just like how books look next to each other.....

 

 

 

NOTE: Saved images, not all my books

 

Who can argue the beauty of all of these lined up together like a family! Great job Ches! (thumbs u

[Barbarian]

Let's say you are told you have a gift coming.... You as a Italian collector are sat down and put in front of you are two comics.....one is a Spiderman 129 in cgc 9.6 the other is the Italian equivilant the L' uomo ragno 149/1976 in cgc 9.6

 

You can only have one? Which one do you take?

 

I´d take the CGC 9.6 ASM 129 and sell it for a ridiculous amount of money.

 

Then I would take that money to travel through Italy for a couple of months, drink wine, eat pizza and learn Italian from my new super hot Italian girlfriend.

 

I would then proceed in buying the Italian CGC 9.6 L´uomo Ragno 149, crack it open and then read it (thumbs u

 

This sounds fun Barbarian! Could this pay for a plane ticket so I could join ya?

 

Too many hypothetical’s in this story:

 

1 - That someone would give me a CGC 9.6 ASM 129 as a present

2- That I would score a super hot Italian girlfriend

3- That your wife would let you go to Italy

 

[Define999]

Addenda: Having read selected passages, I have to make some observations.

 

The first comes regarding the fact of certain foreign readers preferring the original edition. I think the comparision between the original US versions and the UK editions may be pretty misleading. The reason for this is the language. Besides the different shades of American English and British (or Australian) english, we are speaking of the same language, and to me it seems natural that the US original is preferred over a UK edition, which in many cases can be simply seen as a slightly different reprint, even if the UK edition had a considerably lower print run.

 

 

This makes sense but if there is a foreign variant that you could argue not being called a reprint its these... they were according to what I have read printed the very same day and the printers just swaped out the black plates with the UK pricing and then went on to print these Uk editions in much smaller quantaties... Your logic makes sense to me though....

 

Choosing a local edition in another language is an entirely different matter.

Of course, I can speak for Italy only, but Italy is an interesting case.

I assure you the majority (I would say a good 90-95%, to feel safe) of italian readers collectors have developed an interest in the original editions only because the publisher which used to print Marvel went out of business (around 1982-83). We had to wait up to 1987-90 (excluding isolated exceptions, and attempts) to have once again a publisher (or more) consistently translating Marvel titles.

It appears the interest for original editions was mostly motivated by the absence of italian translations, and this was the case for many readers, which stopped buying originals as the local editions restarted on a continued basis.

But there was a part of readers (me included) which may represent a pretty smaller percentage, which became so fascinated with the original editions by getting to see and know them, that decided to privilege the originals.

 

This, in my opinion, which is also corroborated by documented facts, since I have lived the phenomenon between 1983 and now, has little to do with the Internet.

Of course, the Internet made possible a kind and a scope of collecting which was unthinkable before, but speaking of Italy the two points you have made up (the Internet influence and English literateness supported by educational systems abroad) are not so consistent. We are not – generally speaking – an "English literate" population. Up to the 1960s-1970s, French and German were often preferred over English to be taught in school.

I was speaking the other day with a priest (born in 1924) and from what I get, people of that generation, even people which studied, used to learn French (besides Latin and Greek) at their best (German was out of the question, since our alliance with nazi Germany was problematic to say the least).

My generation (born 1969) became more accustomed to English, thanks also to professional or hobby-related issues (informatics and music come to mind), but in general I would say the majority of readers in Italy prefer collecting italian translated editions.

 

Younger people (teenagers up to people in their mid-20s) prefer japanese comics (feeling probably some specific affinity due to many factors), but the more limited audience of younger readers and collectors go always for the italian translated editions.

 

These are my considerations, for now.

 

Interesting... So your saying the average Italian collector would prefer the Italian edition. Thats def different and hadn't heard that before with some other countries..... What a wonderful local angle, thanks! Maybe I need to figure out a way to write it so its not so definitive, somthing like "in many cases" or "in some countries".... thanks again! (thumbs u

Edited April 16, 2012 by Define999

[Define999]

Let's say you are told you have a gift coming.... You as a Italian collector are sat down and put in front of you are two comics.....one is a Spiderman 129 in cgc 9.6 the other is the Italian equivilant the L' uomo ragno 149/1976 in cgc 9.6

 

You can only have one? Which one do you take?

 

I´d take the CGC 9.6 ASM 129 and sell it for a ridiculous amount of money.

 

Then I would take that money to travel through Italy for a couple of months, drink wine, eat pizza and learn Italian from my new super hot Italian girlfriend.

 

I would then proceed in buying the Italian CGC 9.6 L´uomo Ragno 149, crack it open and then read it (thumbs u

 

This sounds fun Barbarian! Could this pay for a plane ticket so I could join ya?

 

Too many hypothetical’s in this story:

 

1 - That someone would give me a CGC 9.6 ASM 129 as a present

2- That I would score a super hot Italian girlfriend

3- That your wife would let you go to Italy

 

 

Your probably right dude..... we have this Fiat comercial running in America right now with the hottest Italian gal! Oh my, it seems they have some hotties over there in Italy:cloud9:

 

My wife wouldn't....

[Define999]

Also speaking of my wife I must mention we had a trajedy very close to my family happen and my wife isn't sleeping and is pretty torn up about it and out of commision. I am doing my best to keep my family running smoothly but I am not doing so well.... My son has fallen out of his crib and hit his head, my daughter is super pissed cuz of some tweenager thing, and I just sent my wife to bed to get some rest for lack of sleep. I am having a hard time finding time to use the restroom much less get on the internet. Please do not take my sluggishness to respond to you guys as me being dismissive or negative.... I just cant keep up! Thanks for understanding! Please keep the thread going even without me at times! (thumbs u

[Define999]

Man, you are a pit of knowledge \(worship\) \(worship\)

 

, Matteo, this sounds funny said by a fellow italian…

BTW, you know surely a lot more than me about the current comics market.

 

I agree, you know your stuff!

[Define999]

I just like how books look next to each other.....

 

Here´s 1 not on that list. Found out about it recently

 

I had a feeling somebody would do that ...

I could only pick from 16 blocks or 25 blocks on photobucket; I left one out, but it wasn't the one you posted...Nice!!!

 

I hadnt seen this one? Sweet find.....

[comics_ross]

Great article

 

Thanks for sharing!

[THB]

I love seeing your foreign variants. I flipped when i saw a Crisis on Infinite Earths # 1 in Spanish and quickly bought it. When ever any of my friends or family are traveling over seas i ask them to pick me up a comic. They have given me some cool books but im still waiting for my first duck foreign comic.

[Ogami]

Also speaking of my wife I must mention we had a trajedy very close to my family happen and my wife isn't sleeping and is pretty torn up about it and out of commision. I am doing my best to keep my family running smoothly but I am not doing so well.... My son has fallen out of his crib and hit his head, my daughter is super pissed cuz of some tweenager thing, and I just sent my wife to bed to get some rest for lack of sleep. I am having a hard time finding time to use the restroom much less get on the internet. Please do not take my sluggishness to respond to you guys as me being dismissive or negative.... I just cant keep up! Thanks for understanding! Please keep the thread going even without me at times! (thumbs u

 

Family first, Define. This thread can wait.

 

All the best to the ones you love.

[vaillant]

@Define999: I confirm you that the overwhelming majority of italian comic book readers don’t care at all about the originals, while they are currently craving to have the italian Corno editions in NM-M state including stickers and posters (yes, we used to have a lot of stickers and posters in the first years, mostly coinciding with key issues, like #1, #25, #50, etc.)

 

I remember your wife, and your family, in my prayers.

[vaillant]

About a year ago I decided I wanted to seek out the Italian 129.. Sure enough I found one on Italian ebay, it was beat up pretty bad!

It had chunks taken out of the cover and was generally in a very poor state. I decided to pass… I think it was like 4 euros…. Cheap and the guy would even ship to America! I thought about it and decided against it. Much of the L' UOMO RAGNO run is on Italian ebay….. key books too. So I decided to wait figuring another one would pop up soon. Guess what? I have a spent the past year actively seeking this book in any grade. No dice….. Can’t find one for sale anywhere. Maybe if I could trawl the comic shops of Italy daily it wouldn’t be a problem? But, for me an American collector…. Its just not available to me…. Some of these foreigns seem to be soooo freakin rare in the marketplace.

 

I just leave a reply for this now, later on I will be glad to reply to any other questions concerning the italian editions. Maybe it’s better to keep one or a few for each post.

 

Now, spaeking of the first, "original" Editoriale Corno runs, there are no true "rare" issues in the whole runs. The most costly – and sought after – are the first issues. As for the Punisher first appearance, it's a "non issue": 90% of italians care little to nothing about the Punisher.

Probably, the titles which are more difficult to find in high-grade are "Gli Albi dei Super-eroi" (or "A.S.E.") which was an antologic title publishing, in rotation, Warlock, the Defenders, Werewolf by Night, Dracula, Conan and Luke Cage (the famous "Avengers vs. Defenders" storyline came out here first, and not in the pages of "Thor" where the Avengers were published).

 

Now, a general consideration about the italian Corno editions: I assure you that, while it may be not so easy to find "perfect conditions" as an american intends them, it’s relatively easy to find NM copies of various degrees, because the paper and the overall production process was qualitatively superior to newsstand original comic books. There is a drawback, however: early issues alternate color pages to b/w pages (for saving money), and often the image quality is not good, as they did not work from film, but Marvel Comics provided them paper printouts, from where the black & white was sourced, then lettered and recolored. Coloring is often pretty good, since it generally follows faithfully the original color scheme, but translations and line art are often lousy. I can go more in detail, for those interested.

 

The more rare items are the second series of Spider-Man, since it came out as the publisher was losing ground, and he decided to close all titles, concentrating all the Marvel Universe in a single title "Il Settimanale dell’Uomo Ragno" (Spider-Man's weekly). That’s where I read many stories which I hold dear, including the Skrulls aging-ray one, which endangers the lives of Reed, Sue and Ben, and Johnny believes them dead. Or the Carrion storyline, from Spier-Man.

This run is 43 issues, pocket size, 48 pages, and is very difficult to find in its entirety and in high-grade (I have mine, bought back then when I was 13).

The rarest, however, is the third Spider-Man series (titled "L’Uomo Ragno" as the first, commonly referred to as "Uomo Ragno seconda serie" (you can Google that).

The series is, once again, an anthology, always featuring Spidey as the main character, with all the others in rotation, and it ran for 58 issues (rumours of a mythical 59th issue used to spread, but I suspect they aren’t founded at all).

Of course, here, the rarest issues are the last ones: 50 to 58, as the publisher was about to go bankrupt. Some of these have also stickers, so it’s even more difficult to find them in high-grade and with stickers.

An example is this classified ad:

http://annunci.ebay.it/annunci/collezionismo/asti-annunci-canelli/uomo-ragno-corno-ii-seconda-serie-n-56/11148004

where two of them are listed, 50 and 56, respectively at 100 and 300 Euro.

 

However, I strongly recommend you not to buy anything costly on eBay: for the average italian seller, especially if amateur/collector, there is no true difference between a VG and a VF+. Plus, I think I have somewhere two copies of either #57 or #58, and I will be more than glad to sell them at a reasonable price, since they are so difficult to obtain for you americans.

 

Generally speaking, it’s better to have someone in Italy buying them for you. In May there will be a convention which we may say it’s the "Golden Age" specialized event in Italy, but there is any kind of comic. It’s very close to my city, and I always attend, so if anyone of you is looking for certain issues in higher grades, I will be glad to look on your behalf,.

 

All the best again for your family, God bless,

Claudio

 

 

Edited April 16, 2012 by vaillant

[Define999]

@Define999: I confirm you that the overwhelming majority of italian comic book readers don’t care at all about the originals, while they are currently craving to have the italian Corno editions in NM-M state including stickers and posters (yes, we used to have a lot of stickers and posters in the first years, mostly coinciding with key issues, like #1, #25, #50, etc.)

 

I remember your wife, and your family, in my prayers.

 

Cool, thanks for the clarification! (thumbs u

[Define999]

About a year ago I decided I wanted to seek out the Italian 129.. Sure enough I found one on Italian ebay, it was beat up pretty bad!

It had chunks taken out of the cover and was generally in a very poor state. I decided to pass… I think it was like 4 euros…. Cheap and the guy would even ship to America! I thought about it and decided against it. Much of the L' UOMO RAGNO run is on Italian ebay….. key books too. So I decided to wait figuring another one would pop up soon. Guess what? I have a spent the past year actively seeking this book in any grade. No dice….. Can’t find one for sale anywhere. Maybe if I could trawl the comic shops of Italy daily it wouldn’t be a problem? But, for me an American collector…. Its just not available to me…. Some of these foreigns seem to be soooo freakin rare in the marketplace.

 

I just leave a reply for this now, later on I will be glad to reply to any other questions concerning the italian editions. Maybe it’s better to keep one or a few for each post.

 

Now, spaeking of the first, "original" Editoriale Corno runs, there are no true "rare" issues in the whole runs. The most costly – and sought after – are the first issues. As for the Punisher first appearance, it's a "non issue": 90% of italians care little to nothing about the Punisher.

Probably, the titles which are more difficult to find in high-grade are "Gli Albi dei Super-eroi" (or "A.S.E.") which was an antologic title publishing, in rotation, Warlock, the Defenders, Werewolf by Night, Dracula, Conan and Luke Cage (the famous "Avengers vs. Defenders" storyline came out here first, and not in the pages of "Thor" where the Avengers were published).

 

Now, a general consideration about the italian Corno editions: I assure you that, while it may be not so easy to find "perfect conditions" as an american intends them, it’s relatively easy to find NM copies of various degrees, because the paper and the overall production process was qualitatively superior to newsstand original comic books. There is a drawback, however: early issues alternate color pages to b/w pages (for saving money), and often the image quality is not good, as they did not work from film, but Marvel Comics provided them paper printouts, from where the black & white was sourced, then lettered and recolored. Coloring is often pretty good, since it generally follows faithfully the original color scheme, but translations and line art are often lousy. I can go more in detail, for those interested.

 

The more rare items are the second series of Spider-Man, since it came out as the publisher was losing ground, and he decided to close all titles, concentrating all the Marvel Universe in a single title "Il Settimanale dell’Uomo Ragno" (Spider-Man's weekly). That’s where I read many stories which I hold dear, including the Skrulls aging-ray one, which endangers the lives of Reed, Sue and Ben, and Johnny believes them dead. Or the Carrion storyline, from Spier-Man.

This run is 43 issues, pocket size, 48 pages, and is very difficult to find in its entirety and in high-grade (I have mine, bought back then when I was 13).

The rarest, however, is the third Spider-Man series (titled "L’Uomo Ragno" as the first, commonly referred to as "Uomo Ragno seconda serie" (you can Google that).

The series is, once again, an anthology, always featuring Spidey as the main character, with all the others in rotation, and it ran for 58 issues (rumours of a mythical 59th issue used to spread, but I suspect they aren’t founded at all).

Of course, here, the rarest issues are the last ones: 50 to 58, as the publisher was about to go bankrupt. Some of these have also stickers, so it’s even more difficult to find them in high-grade and with stickers.

An example is this classified ad:

http://annunci.ebay.it/annunci/collezionismo/asti-annunci-canelli/uomo-ragno-corno-ii-seconda-serie-n-56/11148004

where two of them are listed, 50 and 56, respectively at 100 and 300 Euro.

 

However, I strongly recommend you not to buy anything costly on eBay: for the average italian seller, especially if amateur/collector, there is no true difference between a VG and a VF+. Plus, I think I have somewhere two copies of either #57 or #58, and I will be more than glad to sell them at a reasonable price, since they are so difficult to obtain for you americans.

 

Generally speaking, it’s better to have someone in Italy buying them for you. In May there will be a convention which we may say it’s the "Golden Age" specialized event in Italy, but there is any kind of comic. It’s very close to my city, and I always attend, so if anyone of you is looking for certain issues in higher grades, I will be glad to look on your behalf,.

 

All the best again for your family, God bless,

Claudio

 

 

Great Italian info sir! Trust me vaillant I lust after the Gli Albi dei Super-eroi run.... So many great books with amazing keys and stories built into it! I have these 2 coming to me now!

 

PM sent!

[marmat]

 

Now, a general consideration about the italian Corno editions: I assure you that, while it may be not so easy to find "perfect conditions" as an american intends them, it’s relatively easy to find NM copies of various degrees, because the paper and the overall production process was qualitatively superior to newsstand original comic books. There is a drawback, however: early issues alternate color pages to b/w pages (for saving money), and often the image quality is not good, as they did not work from film, but Marvel Comics provided them paper printouts, from where the black & white was sourced, then lettered and recolored. Coloring is often pretty good, since it generally follows faithfully the original color scheme, but translations and line art are often lousy. I can go more in detail, for those interested.

 

 

 

 

On this point I diagree.

Based on my personal experience, copies in strict Nm or better, which means 9.4 or better, are very very hard to find (9.4) or almost impossible (9.6-9.8) and I use the term "almost" because you never say never, but I belive that 9.8 copies are virtually non existant.

 

I am with Claudio on everything else in his post. And dont forget Uomo Ragno Gigante the last issue, it's going for crazy prices because was released when the publisher declared bankrupcy and apparently the print run is very small

 

Edited April 16, 2012 by marmat

[vaillant]

On this point I diagree.

Based on my personal experience, copies in strict Nm or better, which means 9.4 or better, are very very hard to find (9.4) or almost impossible (9.6-9.8) and I use the term "almost" because you never say never, but I belive that 9.8 copies are virtually non existant.

 

Yes, I mistakenly said "near mint", but I see the lowest numeric equivalent for NM is 9.0, so I meant "up to 9.0" as a maximum. I would say, however, that this may largely depend on the fact collecting 1960s comics has bloomed as a phenomenon in the last 10-15 years. When I collected my Fantastici Quattro, I bought them from a friend which used to look for perfect copies, and already had five full runs of "Fantastici Quattro". He sold me his worst copies, which, in most of cases, are truly a 8.5-9.

But it’s very difficult to find them now, that collectors have started to become more fixated with high grades.

I have a pair of polybagged issues (with stickers/posters), however, which must be at least NM, since they are unopened (maybe some slight corner bumping?).

Edited April 16, 2012 by vaillant

[marmat]

That is the problem with italian comic market, conditions is not a major issue, this was true until few years ago. Still in the late 90's, very few collectors used bags, even fewer used boards, and in many LSC comics were not even bagged. And the worst of all, it was common practice to sell FN comics as CONDIZIONI DA EDICOLA the italian way to say NM.

Now you can buy VF-NM copies if you look carefully and take your time, but NM+-MT copies, this is a totally different ballpack....even better.... a totally different sport.

Edited April 16, 2012 by marmat

[lscomics]

Since I started collecting foreign editions condition in general has, at least in my mind, become a non-issue. In most cases I'm perfectly content to find a copy at all.