Q&A Comic Production Flaws 16 16

[The Lions Den]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:54 PM, Karl Liebl said:

Marvel chips!  What’s the grade impact?

Apparently CGC has a method of evaluating them based on the total area of the cover that's missing (maybe they just measure them...?)  

[Upgrayedd2]

I really enjoy reading old posts. I went back and read forum member questions just from last year. If there's anything I've learned from CGC Grading it's the following:

(1) If the anomaly occurred during production, there is no impact on grading. 

(2) The same applies for date stamps or color markings made on old comics by the dealer/store as part of the return process.

I base the comments above on the 9.8 Grades where the date stamp is clearly visible on the cover or the staple is almost 1/2 inch from the spine and through the front cover, or the cover is shifted or rotated where you can see a solid white column on the left or one of the numbers from the price is rolled over onto or behind the spine. 

I'm sure there are plenty of examples that will contradict the above, but then you have to ask, "how did this issue with a clear anomaly get a 9.8?" The only information that will help is when CGC provides notes for every issue.

[Kevin76]

2 hours ago, Upgrayedd2 said:

I really enjoy reading old posts. I went back and read forum member questions just from last year. If there's anything I've learned from CGC Grading it's the following:

(1) If the anomaly occurred during production, there is no impact on grading. 

(2) The same applies for date stamps or color markings made on old comics by the dealer/store as part of the return process.

I base the comments above on the 9.8 Grades where the date stamp is clearly visible on the cover or the staple is almost 1/2 inch from the spine and through the front cover, or the cover is shifted or rotated where you can see a solid white column on the left or one of the numbers from the price is rolled over onto or behind the spine. 

I'm sure there are plenty of examples that will contradict the above, but then you have to ask, "how did this issue with a clear anomaly get a 9.8?" The only information that will help is when CGC provides notes for every issue.

They have given a reason for it, in that there is a "curve" when grading books with production issues.   

[MGsimba77]

Does anyone know about "production creases" and if they're pressable. Would a grader easily distinguish a production crease from a non production? 

So here's the affected areas. Sorry I don't have a better picture. If you turn the image sideways you can enlarge. Grader notes indicate production creases. Pressable or not? Thanks in advance for any responses!

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

Does anyone know about "production creases" and if they're pressable. Would a grader easily distinguish a production crease from a non production? 

So here's the affected areas. Sorry I don't have a better picture. If you turn the image sideways you can enlarge. Grader notes indicate production creases. Pressable or not? Thanks in advance for any responses!

Even with enlargement, I can't really see the creases (the wedge may be affecting the view somewhat) but as a general rule, if they don't break color a press should reduce or eliminate them. And sometimes it's hard to say whether a crease happened during production or post production...  

[Kevin76]

You can't press production creases, the wrinkle is too sharp. When you think of pressing, think of "flattening the book out"  That's all pressing does, flattens the book out.  

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

Greetings very smart comic people. 
 

does this look like a bindery tear?

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:17 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Greetings very smart comic people. 
 

does this look like a bindery tear?

[Yorick]

@GreatCaesarsGhost Unless you've seen this same tear on several high grade copies of that particular issue, how would one know?  A tear is a tear is a tear.  Sure, bindery tears are real.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

5 hours ago, Yorick said:

@GreatCaesarsGhost Unless you've seen this same tear on several high grade copies of that particular issue, how would one know?  A tear is a tear is a tear.  Sure, bindery tears are real.

Thanks for your answer, @Yorick.

interesting.  So if I understand you correctly, there's nothing about the tear itself that would either include it or exclude it as a bindery tear?

And when you ask about whether other issues of the same exact book have the same defect, it sounds like a bindery tear is not necessarily confined to an individual book.  Rather, I'm inferring here that its a defect that would likely duplicate itself over several books.  It never occurred to me that this would be anything other than a "one and done" defect limited to a single copy.

 

Full disclosure.  This is my book.  I'm hoping its a bindery tear, as opposed to something else.  The graders notes do not mention the tear, so I'm assuming they didn't feel the need to say anything due to it being 1) obvious to the eye, and 2) that it's a production flaw, and therefore not counted against the book.

Edited June 29, 2021 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[Yorick]

4 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

that its a defect that would likely duplicate itself over several books.

I believe this would be the case for a production defect.  The publisher is going to keep on binding unless the operator sees a major problem.  A tiny little corner tear is not going to stop the binding process (or prevent the publisher from shipping 10 cent comics that were trimmed with a dull blade).  Heck, some publishers will ship some seriously "defected" books if they just need a couple more to meet the order numbers.

Here is where you need to rely on "experts" that have seen several copies of the book.  There should be more than one copy that exhibits the same minor defect.

I just bought a modern 9.8 with worse bindery tears.

[Yorick]

@GreatCaesarsGhost What about the top of the spine? That looks like rubbing/abrasion to me (typically not production).

[Yorick]

I saw this Captain Marvel in an HA lot with no black ink on the cover.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

14 minutes ago, Yorick said:

@GreatCaesarsGhost What about the top of the spine? That looks like rubbing/abrasion to me (typically not production

CGC did not note the rubbing/abrasion in their graders notes any more than they did the tear at the bottom. For that reason alone, I assumed cgc felt both to be a production flaws.   Why else wouldn’t they appear in the notes?

unless they chose to ignore them for other reasons, I guess

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

22 minutes ago, Yorick said:

I saw this Captain Marvel in an HA lot with no black ink on the cover.

Looks so silly

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

38 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw III said:

In the past CGC has not noted obvious defects that can be seen through the slab. At the time this was not an indication it was a production flaw, but rather less paperwork work for the graders and more "duh it's right there".

I’d heard they don’t necessarily feel the need to disclose flaws readily apparent, but this is an example of the confusion this policy generates:

1) purchasers are left to guess which flaws were considered to be production flaws (and therefore not considered when setting the final grade) VERSUS those flaws not considered to be production (and therefore affirmatively considered when coming up with the final grade).
 

2)  How are subsequent purchasers to know if a flaw came AFTER grading thru a shaken comic syndrome? If it’s not noted at the time of grading, subsequent purchasers cannot know if the flaw was noted, evaluated and taken into consideration in assigning the grade. Or not

[William-James88]

4 hours ago, Yorick said:

I saw this Captain Marvel in an HA lot with no black ink on the cover.

I was tempted but ultimately I let it go (already had several comics from that lot already)

[mrwoogieman]

How about some misaligned staples

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

7 hours ago, mrwoogieman said:

How about some misaligned staples

Wow. That IS odd. I can’t speak to the mechanics of it, and can only say I dont believe it to be uncommon. Here’s a book of mine with the same problem.

by the way cgc grades, they would consider it to be a manufacturing problem and not count it against the grade

[mrwoogieman]

I thought at first it was just some added staples, people do some goofy things to comics. But that was it for staples, nothing along the spine, no other staple holes, etc. So the book got knocked off kilter at the staple stage but was back in place by the folding stage.