ArtUser Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 Sunday Comics & New Yorker covers lead Swann Illustration Auction https://usaartnews.com/auctions/sunday-comics-new-yorker-covers-lead-swann-illustration-auction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 To the hive mind: I’m not sure this is the right place to ask my question. This is production related, but I don’t know if it’s classified as a production related flaw. I have 2 copies of the same book, and they are 2 different sizes. The 9.0 is 1/8th of an inch taller and wider than the 8.0. is this normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin76 Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 3/30/2022 at 8:38 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said: To the hive mind: I’m not sure this is the right place to ask my question. This is production related, but I don’t know if it’s classified as a production related flaw. I have 2 copies of the same book, and they are 2 different sizes. The 9.0 is 1/8th of an inch taller and wider than the 8.0. is this normal? Yes it's normal. Not every book is the perfect and cut to intended size because it's most likely printed using a web press and everything was set up manually back then as they didn't have automatic web presses like they do now. I can already see there is more blue, yellow and black ink on the left copy and more red in the copy on the right. Copy on the left has tighter register than the one on the right. The Lions Den and GreatCaesarsGhost 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 (edited) On 6/6/2022 at 6:35 AM, Kevin76 said: Yes it's normal. Not every book is the perfect and cut to intended size because it's most likely printed using a web press and everything was set up manually back then as they didn't have automatic web presses like they do now. I can already see there is more blue, yellow and black ink on the left copy and more red in the copy on the right. Copy on the left has tighter register than the one on the right. I didn’t even notice the deeper colors on the 9.0 until you said so. I guess that explains why the 9.0 just feels better to me(for reasons not including the big number on the holder). thank you for your reply Edited June 6, 2022 by GreatCaesarsGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 7/6/2021 at 2:13 PM, Yorick said: @GreatCaesarsGhost What about the top of the spine? That looks like rubbing/abrasion to me (typically not production). You're correct. And both of those defects should have been in the notes, but apparently those days are gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 6/23/2021 at 4:39 PM, Kevin76 said: You can't press production creases, the wrinkle is too sharp. When you think of pressing, think of "flattening the book out" That's all pressing does, flattens the book out. Thank you! That's nice to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 6/6/2022 at 1:53 PM, The Lions Den said: You're correct. And both of those defects should have been in the notes, but apparently those days are gone... This book was graded in 2004, and there’s no mention of the top of the spine. Which irritates the heck out of me. How are we supposed to know that they took a defect into consideration when they don’t list them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 On 6/6/2022 at 3:12 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said: This book was graded in 2004, and there’s no mention of the top of the spine. Which irritates the heck out of me. How are we supposed to know that they took a defect into consideration when they don’t list them all Well, even in those days they didn't always list every flaw in the notes---usually just the more glaring defects. And the wear at the top and bottom of the spine should have been taken into consideration when assigning the final grade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSC249 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Hello Gang, My 1st post so please let me know if I need to move/change anything Read numerous pages and think I'm starting to get a grasp on this production error stuff but I would luv your opinions on my book. I was smart enough to buy 2 copies of ASM 361 (new, off the shelf) but dumb enough not to inspect them much at the time... Both bought together and both have what appears to be production errors on the bottom left half of the books. I would like to send one in with my 1st CGC shipment but am concerned how much these productions errors are going to ding the book. I'm not looking for the whole "spare a grade" treatment just curious how you think the (hopefully) production errors may/may not detract from the overall grade. TY! FYI - What appears to be the production errors, on both the front and back covers, are not on any interior pages... and both books have them in identical spacing, on the same side but one book is trimmed much differently that the other. Hopefully I got these pics and links worked out correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 @BSC249 You might investigate graded copies of that book to see if 9.8's exhibit those tears at the bottom. As for the cover wrap, the position of the sheets may be out of perfect alignment while the staples are placed and the book is folded. Front cover artwork wrapping slightly around to the back cover (and vice-versa) is a quite typical production "error". The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSC249 Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 On 7/1/2022 at 10:19 PM, Yorick said: @BSC249 You might investigate graded copies of that book to see if 9.8's exhibit those tears at the bottom. @YorickOMG was a simple and great suggestion! LOL Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin76 Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 (edited) On 7/2/2022 at 8:08 PM, BSC249 said: @YorickOMG was a simple and great suggestion! LOL Thx! They are called "Folder Pin Tears" They are used to pull the paper through the folder and around the cylinder then they are cut inside before folding. Picture is refence of what a folder pin looks like. This is what is causing the tears on the ASM 361 Edited July 3, 2022 by Kevin76 steveinthecity, Yorick, greggy and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSC249 Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) On 7/2/2022 at 11:57 PM, Kevin76 said: They are called "Folder Pin Tears" They are used to pull the paper through the folder and around the cylinder then they are cut inside before folding. Picture is refence of what a folder pin looks like. This is what is causing the tears on the ASM 361 Damn those folder pins! a quick ps: finally figured out how to change notification settings so I actually receive an email notification when you guys reply Edited July 8, 2022 by BSC249 status update on 1st post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokiing Posted July 8, 2022 Share Posted July 8, 2022 CGC considers this a production flaw on Wolverine Limited # 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin76 Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 I had that on a Secret Wars 1, came back a 7.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramazeek Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) Hi everyone, I’m new to collecting and grading but a few copies of Ghost Rider 2099 #1 from 1994 made me curious about manufacturing flaws. This cover included black ink printed over silver foil and this seemed to produce lots of variation in overall appearance. Every copy I have seen has shown (what I believe) is a scratchy effect from the roller(s?) effecting the ink. This appears very frequently in the center of the book and also along the spine where it thickened a bit from the fold. A weird very thin line that runs top to bottom and also often appears in the center of the book on a lot of copies as well. Below are copies from a pretty extreme example. Would anyone have more info on this and how it effects grading considering how many copies contain some or all of these defects? Thanks and glad to be on the forum! - Mike Edited November 18, 2022 by Kramazeek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorick Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 On 11/17/2022 at 11:47 AM, Kramazeek said: Ghost Rider 2099 #1 from 1994. This cover included black ink printed over silver foil. Hi Mike. Welcome to the Boards. I don't have first-hand knowledge of that book, but the silver foil makes me believe that ANY surface friction/rubbing would cause that. Even while the printer was merely handling the sheets. The spine certainly is rubbing (but that can happen after it's left the printer). What's the paper texture like on the inside of the cover? Really smooth or is there a bit of tooth to it? When all those cover sheets are stacked for printing, they're oriented the same direction. The inside cover is stacked against the silver foil outside. When running the stack through a feeder it is pulling sheets off one at a time OVER the cover sheet below it. I don't think it would be the rollers on a newer book like this. Many modern rollers are rubber or soft (think of your home printer). With your membership to CGC, you are able to search the census for particular issues. Are there any 9.8 copies of this book? Kramazeek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramazeek Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) On 11/18/2022 at 12:43 PM, Yorick said: Hi Mike. Welcome to the Boards. I don't have first-hand knowledge of that book, but the silver foil makes me believe that ANY surface friction/rubbing would cause that. Even while the printer was merely handling the sheets. The spine certainly is rubbing (but that can happen after it's left the printer). What's the paper texture like on the inside of the cover? Really smooth or is there a bit of tooth to it? When all those cover sheets are stacked for printing, they're oriented the same direction. The inside cover is stacked against the silver foil outside. When running the stack through a feeder it is pulling sheets off one at a time OVER the cover sheet below it. I don't think it would be the rollers on a newer book like this. Many modern rollers are rubber or soft (think of your home printer). With your membership to CGC, you are able to search the census for particular issues. Are there any 9.8 copies of this book? Hi Yorick, thanks much for the welcome! The paper itself is a heavier weight card stock and feels smooth. These particular copies I can confirm have been properly bagged and boarded since release. I have friends who also have this book and their copies have similar markings, wear, lines, a significant spine tick on the same spot (maybe 40% of the copies I’ve seen escape this defect but very common on Ebay listings), and whatever the full-book horizontal marks up the center. Every copy of this book I’ve seen has had some variation of these defects as well. The census currently shows 45 9.8’s/31 9.6’s. I’ve yet to see a slabbed 9.8 in person to gauge how much consideration CGC may give to what seems like commonly occurring defects. The funny thing is on the covers with a smaller amount of the “scrapy” effect it actually works with the metallic effect the art is shooting for - a worn metal look. I’m guessing I’ll have to either submit a copy or find a slabbed 9.8 to view? I really appreciate the info on printing as well. Really interesting stuff. Edited November 18, 2022 by Kramazeek Yorick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramazeek Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) On 11/18/2022 at 1:05 PM, WAWYA said: Don't even bother slabbing that book. Hehe…no worries. This was the most messed up of 20 copies and shows the defects more clearly. Definitely not being submitted. I think maybe 3 out of the 20 copies I got in a lot may be legit 9.8 contenders depending on how CGC views what may be very common production defects. I love this book and the Kenshiro “Zero” Cochrane Ghost Rider 2099 though and was hoping to get one or two 9.8’s out of the lot. Edited November 18, 2022 by Kramazeek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramazeek Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 On 11/18/2022 at 12:43 PM, Yorick said: Hi Mike. Welcome to the Boards. I don't have first-hand knowledge of that book, but the silver foil makes me believe that ANY surface friction/rubbing would cause that. Even while the printer was merely handling the sheets. The spine certainly is rubbing (but that can happen after it's left the printer). What's the paper texture like on the inside of the cover? Really smooth or is there a bit of tooth to it? When all those cover sheets are stacked for printing, they're oriented the same direction. The inside cover is stacked against the silver foil outside. When running the stack through a feeder it is pulling sheets off one at a time OVER the cover sheet below it. I don't think it would be the rollers on a newer book like this. Many modern rollers are rubber or soft (think of your home printer). With your membership to CGC, you are able to search the census for particular issues. Are there any 9.8 copies of this book? Just for reference here are some pics of a better copy. There is still some of the variable “scratchy” effect on the spine. You can see very slight marks in the center from what I may have erroneously believed was some sort of feeder mechanism? On worse copies the central marks will scuff the foil and scratch off ink along the entire mark as well. Whatever made contact at that point in production left a mark on a ton of copies. The horizontal line where nothing prints is present as well. The ink saturation is much better on this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
