Next Villain(s) for Spiderman III will be....

[UnrulyAppendage]

As far as GG II or Hobgoblin, I say develop that, but don't make it the main villain. I loved how the story carried on after Doc Ock was defeated. It felt like a comic book. So many comic book movies have the bad guy check out at the end of the movie that it becomes predictable. I like how Harry has been an important part of the movies and not disposable. Have him be the the tie that keeps the movies together.

 

As far as multiple villains, I say use them in one movie as well but don't team them up. Take a page out of James Bond and have an opening action sequence with a villain. It may or may not have anything to do with the main villain, but it could put Spidey in the wrong place at the time, much like Superman II when Supes threw the H bomb into space. One course of action sets up another without them being related.

 

Peter/Mary Jane relationship. I say keep them together. Also predictable in comic book movies/TV is the on again\off again. I say let outside forces cause conflict between the two, maybe attention from Gwen Stacy, but don't go into a break up. We have had that with the two movies now and I don't want to see Smallville drama creep into the Spidey movies. Now, if they wanted to put a twist on things, let Mary Jane be the first love, she dies at GGII hands, and Stacy is the one Pete marries.

 

Peter the lovable loser: I say give him PT job working in science or research at the college. It will also get boring seeing someone continually trying to make rent. Don't make him rich, but don't get caught up in forced drama.

[FFB]

Its his show - - as long as its working. He lived and breathed the first film into being and received the credit by "those who know" in Hollywood. Afetr it was a smash, and XMen became a hot franchise (also thru his tireless efforts at top quality of story and effects), plus Blade, minus Hulk (not his film, Ang Lee had far more clout at the time) and Punisher (Avi but only a small budget misfire that may yet make money) and DD (same story)

 

Funny how Avi "worked tirelessly" on the BOX OFFICE SMASHES, yet the MONEY LOSING DOGS "weren't his movies".

 

Oh man, this is too rich.

 

 

Joey Joey Joey.... Hulk was Ang Lee's film from start to finish. Academy Award winning director is hired to create HIS TAKE on the Hulk after Crouching Tiger breaks every record for subtitled and art films. Avi Arad was a "producer' of the film due to clout and Marvel's ownership of the character, but Gayle Ann Hurd was the top Hollywood voice on the film, working with Ang Lee, and Ang's long-time partner producing James Schamus. It was Schamus and Good Machine (his company) that became Focus Features when Universal bought them during production of teh Hulk to keep them "in-house" and take over Gramercy and USA Films, their two indy subdistribution arms..... In tern, look at the credits on IMDB: every key tech credit has a background not only solely on art films, BUT, a consisten pattern of having worked with Ang Lee in the past.

 

Hulk was Ang/Schamus' film. end of story. That it failed is totally attributable to letting them make the film that THEY wanted out of respect and hopes that THEIR Hulk would be a blockbuster money-maker like Crouching Tiger AND, at the same time, a quality film. Certainly, in retrospect, a mistake.

 

Punisher and to a lesser degree Daredevil were made with financial restraints which arguably contributed to their lackluster reception. That and casting issues. Hey JC, no one is saying Avi is a genius (Im not) but he has shown a flair so far for making big-budget superhero hits. He's the flavor of the year (He was Showwests Man of The Year this year which of course means only what you think it means...)

 

I think that the Hulk's failings are failures of the story's pacing (beginning was too long with no action), some of the dialogue, and the very stupid ending with the absorbing man.

 

But to its credit, the film was beautifully shot (excellent production values), had a killer soundtrack, had some great action scenes, and I thought the Hulk's CGI looked awesome (far better than the trailers suggested he'd look). The battle scenes in the desert were awesome. If there had been 20 more minutes of scenes earlier in the movie like the one where Hulk beats the snot out of those tanks and helicopters, and if they had changed the ending and taken out some of the dumber aspects of the movie (like General Ross' forced "yell" of frustration that was so fake that I almost groaned out loud) the movie would have made twice as much money at the box office.

 

Hulk will be a very easy movie to do well as a sequel with a different director and writer.

[FFB]

Do you remember how you felt watching the last hour of Titanic-on the edge of your seat waiting to see what would happen next? Well picture Spidey III like that with the Lizard trying to tear apart a research lab where Spidey is trying to come up with an antidote for poor Doc Connors. After narrowly escaping the Lizard several times he finally comes up with a cure. But now the hard part getting Lizzy to take it. Could be pretty cool.

VZ

 

True, but how do you turn that into a story about development of Peter's character? (Not saying it's impossible -- just asking the question.) I would like to see the Lizard, but not just for the sake of the Lizard. The important thing to all of these movies is that they appeal to non-comic fans. And the only way to do that is to focus on character development so that the audience cares about what happens to the main characters.

[joe_collector]

And the only way to do that is to focus on character development so that the audience cares about what happens to the main characters.

 

Which is why the Lizard stories that worked so well (like ASM 100-102) had Pete needing some antidote or serum from Conners, thereby "making it personal" when Spidey tries to get the Lizard under control.

 

There has to be some personal consequence to him losing (other than bodily harm), or the audience will not care.

[blowout]

There has to be some personal consequence to him losing (other than bodily harm), or the audience will not care.

 

Pete with 6 arms?

[THE_BEYONDER]

There has to be some personal consequence to him losing (other than bodily harm), or the audience will not care.

 

Pete with 6 arms?

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blowout]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You should have invested in ASM 100 & 101 and not 136.

[Aman619]

I think that the Hulk's failings are failures of the story's pacing (beginning was too long with no action), some of the dialogue, and the very stupid ending with the absorbing man.

 

But to its credit, the film was beautifully shot (excellent production values), had a killer soundtrack, had some great action scenes, and I thought the Hulk's CGI looked awesome (far better than the trailers suggested he'd look). The battle scenes in the desert were awesome. If there had been 20 more minutes of scenes earlier in the movie like the one where Hulk beats the snot out of those tanks and helicopters, and if they had changed the ending and taken out some of the dumber aspects of the movie (like General Ross' forced "yell" of frustration that was so fake that I almost groaned out loud) the movie would have made twice as much money at the box office.

 

Hulk will be a very easy movie to do well as a sequel with a different director and writer.

 

I guess in the right circumstance, Universal MIGHT gamble another 200 million on the Hulk. But I wouldnt expect it unless Marvel movies show absolutely no weakness going forward (FF is huge and XMen stays huge) AND if they were presented with just an absolutely risk-free deal. (third party financing, split distributors, the hottest current director and star....) something to make them go "back in the water". Because having burned thru every imaginable licensing deal out there, only to see HULK bomb, they arent gonna be able to put all that licensing coin back together again any time soon.

 

But never say never!

 

I also though that while HULK pretty much sucked as entertainment, I was impressed by the cinematography, editing etc. It was beautiful to "watch" and creatively assembled and shot...but just a long, uninvolving storyline, nearly saved by the late CGI action. Ang took a shot at "his take" on the Hulk, but it certainly wasnt what enough other people were looking for, was it?

[Zanarkand]

Ok, I just saw Spider-Man 2 last night, so now I feel qualified to offer an opinion (wink). First off, terrific movie. Far better than the first, with kille action sequences and great characterization.

 

This is how a comic book based movie is supposed to be. IT's NOT a comic book, it's a MOVIE. It had elements taken from the comics, without too much of the... well, the goofiness in which comics often find themselves mired. It's like Sam Raimi poured a batch of liquid comic book through a strainer and kept only the good stuff.

 

The success of this movie is in the characters. It's not a movie about Spider-Man, it's a movie about Peter Parker. The conflict in the movie does not come from Doc Ock, the conflict comes from Peter's attempts to balance Spider life with real life.

 

The villain serves as a perfect movie hyperbole. Peter searches for a reason, a justification for being Spider-Man beyond his own guilt over his uncle's death. And there it is, literally punching him in the face.

 

Villains are why we need heroes. Compare and contrast with other superhero movie villains - I submit that the reason they fall short is that they don't offer sufficient reason for the hero to do what he does. Spider-Man's villains, both internal and external, really require heroics to overcome. Sam Raimi really drove the point home during the scene where Peter rescues the kid from the burning building, but finds out there was another guy in there that he didn't save. You can just see Peter thinking "Maybe today Peter Parker was a hero in his own right, but Spider-Man could've saved them both."

 

There is absolutely no reason to change this winning formula for Spider-Man 3. Abandon all hope, ye who enter speculation about 3 with thoughts of Venom, Carnage, clones, Black Cat, Man-Wolf, etc. That's just not where the movie is at.

 

It has been admirably set up to continue the personal conflict in Peter's life. Harry knows who he is now, and has a reason to hate him. And possibly a drinking problem. And some of dad's stuff. But not to gonads to turn into a baddie himself. He is not his father's son. Haven't both movies made that point sufficiently yet? Harry doesn't possess that kind of fire.

 

Predictions for Spider-Man 3: Peter and MJ sort of semi get along. It's all well and fine not to expect your boyfriend to make a date now and then, but after awhile it gets old. MJ gets tired of playing second fiddle all the time.

 

Harry, meanwhile, is working quietly to bring about Spider-Man's undoing. He will not be satisfied with less than total personal destruction, to "cause you the pain that you caused me". This cannot be achieved by donning the big green Power Ranger outfit and throwing around pumpkin bombs, so I think we can toss that idea. That makes the conflict wholly external, and that's how we get a fistfight, not drama. Plus, Peter already knows all about the Goblin, so if another guy shows up with a rocket sled, etc, won't it be sort of obvious who's behind it?

 

Count on Harry using his wealth and resources to try to tear Peter down on a more personal level. Turn MJ, Aunt May, his coworkers at the Bugle, etc against him. All the while pretending to be Peter's pal, let bygones be bygones, understanding, etc. Adds an element of betrayal.

 

I believe that despite having a real good reason to hate Peter, you can discount John Jameson as any kind of interesting baddie. He's a NASA astronaut, i.e. one of the very few, culled out of thousands of applicants, that has been deemed psychologically suited to sitting on top of 50,000 pounds of high explosive and spending time in an environment where the slightest misstep will kill you. Not the sort to snap under stress. I believe that he can add another element of personal conflict on the MJ front, but if he turns villain and/or joins forces with Harry in a revenge plot, I will be sorely disappointed.

 

Our best bet is Harry basically putting contracts out on Spider-Man, maybe using Goblin technology. Does that give us a Hobgoblin? Killraven? Or something else?

[Aman619]

good points Zanarkind. lots of ways Raimi can go from here.

 

On another point, one thing really bothered me about #2 that no one hase yet mentioned: out of all th eways Spidey can be seen as a herp rescuing people, WHY a burning building in BOTH #1 and #2??? There oughtta have been another form of peril to put someone in for Spidey to save... Im curious why they resorted to the same scene. $$$ savings come up immediately to mind..but its gotta be more than that? ANyone read anything on this? Or do we have to wait for the DVD commentary?

[chrisco37]

WHY a burning building in BOTH #1 and #2??? There oughtta have been another form of peril to put someone in for Spidey to save...

 

My guess is that (at least for #2) that an "ordinary" person could run into a building and save someone. Peter is just an "ordinary" guy.

 

If it had been a bank hold-up, someone trapped under a car, whatever.....people might see him use his spider-powers and make the connection.

 

Not a great explanation, I know.....

[DiceX]

WHY a burning building in BOTH #1 and #2???

 

Because it showed that Pete was a hero on the inside.

With or without his power, he was willing to put his life on the line to save someone.

In real life...anyone that is willing to go into a burning building to prevent someone from losing their life...even if they do not succeed...is a hero. No question about it.

[minutekev@50]

Will o' the Wisp would be a great villian!

 

I'm not sure if I see Harry becoming GG II just yet. Perhaps he thinks about it initially, but finds love in Liz Allen and decides to settle down. He still, however, won't have anything to do with Pete.

 

Enter Hobgoblin. Who, like the Stern epics of the 80s, discovers the Goblin's gear and goes on a Manhattan rampage. The kicker is we don't know who this guy is. He could be Harry, perhaps that's even played up in the move.During a climatic battle at the end, Spidey wins, but we still don't find out who Hobby is, leading right in to the next movie...now that's a teaser!

 

Being a Scorpion fan, I'd love to see this guy as well. The Kraven from Kraven's Last Hunt would be interesting, but for that plotline to work you'd have to have some history between Spidey and the Hunter.

 

And don't count out Doc Ock!

[Zanarkand]

I think chrisco37 and DiceX are right on about the burning building. Raimi basically filmed the hero cliche - willing to run into a burning building.

In addition to that though, it had to be a heroic action that clearly did not involve Spider powers.

 

Back to Spidey 3 villains - I think Scorpion would be cool, but robotic-appendage baddie has now been done. Lizard would also be cool, but science-gone-awry baddie has been done. See, 3 has to have a villain with a different style. You can have lots of similar villains in comics and get away with it, but movies need to be a little more progressive.

[Aman619]

I think chrisco37 and DiceX are right on about the burning building. Raimi basically filmed the hero cliche - willing to run into a burning building.

In addition to that though, it had to be a heroic action that clearly did not involve Spider powers.

 

Back to Spidey 3 villains - I think Scorpion would be cool, but robotic-appendage baddie has now been done. Lizard would also be cool, but science-gone-awry baddie has been done. See, 3 has to have a villain with a different style. You can have lots of similar villains in comics and get away with it, but movies need to be a little more progressive.

 

Mysterio, Baby!! And Stan can be the Hollywood producer who becomes his first victim! Spidey and MJ take a holiday to LA and all heck breaks loose on a studio tour!! They can do the Spidey visits a psychiatrist subplot from #24 cause he has lingering guilt feelings...

 

Im still not convinced on the burning building thing. Seems too lazy of them after all the great creative work on everything else.. Theres gotta be a reason they didnt use some other form of heroics....

[blowout]

Mysterio, Baby!! And Stan can be the Hollywood producer who becomes his first victim! Spidey and MJ take a holiday to LA and all heck breaks loose on a studio tour!! They can do the Spidey visits a psychiatrist subplot from #24 cause he has lingering guilt feelings...

 

I just can't see a guy with a fish-bowl on his head bringing in the dollars.

[12c_Comic]

Mysterio, Baby!! And Stan can be the Hollywood producer who becomes his first victim! Spidey and MJ take a holiday to LA and all heck breaks loose on a studio tour!! They can do the Spidey visits a psychiatrist subplot from #24 cause he has lingering guilt feelings...

 

I just can't see a guy with a fish-bowl on his head bringing in the dollars.

 

I'am a big Mysterio fan,he has given Spidey alot of great battles and his abilities are unique.For the appearance he would have to have a disguise with or without the glass dome he would be a great villain in future sequels...

 

[Aman619]

Mysterio, Baby!! And Stan can be the Hollywood producer who becomes his first victim! Spidey and MJ take a holiday to LA and all heck breaks loose on a studio tour!! They can do the Spidey visits a psychiatrist subplot from #24 cause he has lingering guilt feelings...

 

I just can't see a guy with a fish-bowl on his head bringing in the dollars.

 

I'am a big Mysterio fan,he has given Spidey alot of great battles and his abilities are unique.For the appearance he would have to have a disguise with or without the glass dome he would be a great villain in future sequels...

 

 

hey - - apropos of the Ditko/Romita "debate", just look at your "hero" Romita's lousy Spidey drawing above. Horribly average!! Unexciting, bleeechhh!

Coincidentally, theres a Ditko Mysterio in the post too... Its okay, not cherce stuff, but whta can one say but "Ditko!"

 

Also, I agree about mysterios costume!! Fishbowl head and curtains ... but with a redesign and CGI they can do a great job. He always appeared in a pool of smoke anyway.

[Aman619]

I was in the LCS tonight and they were discussing #3 like we are. One good idea was to start off with Dr Conners becoming teh lizard and going oon a rampage. Then Kraven the Hunter shows up to catch the Lizard for a bounty from JJJ. So Petey has to save Dr Connors from Kraven and and cure him... Then he has to get away from Kraven, who goes after the real menace to NYC -- Spidey--- next!

 

They were also excited about Jameson Jr coming back from the moon with the Venom symbiote. "Just like in th ecartoon" they said.

[Zanarkand]

I was in the LCS tonight and they were discussing #3 like we are. One good idea was to start off with Dr Conners becoming teh lizard and going oon a rampage. Then Kraven the Hunter shows up to catch the Lizard for a bounty from JJJ. So Petey has to save Dr Connors from Kraven and and cure him... Then he has to get away from Kraven, who goes after the real menace to NYC -- Spidey--- next!

 

They were also excited about Jameson Jr coming back from the moon with the Venom symbiote. "Just like in th ecartoon" they said.

 

Hey, that's a pretty cool way to sneak Kraven in there... That way, the conflict is redirected away from Spidey and more back onto Pete, which is where it belongs. Let's have Kraven hired by the city though, to trap and/or kill the "creature". JJJ just isn't the type to put a hit out on someone.

 

And PLEASE, I beg, I appeal to any shred of decency Hollywood might have (which admittedly isn't much), NO alien symbiotes!

 

Here's a top whatever list of goofy things that have happened to Spidey. Alternatively, it's a list of things that should never ever appear in any movie, ever:

 

1) Two words: six arms.

2) Two more words: Spider-mobile.

3) And another two: Spider clones.

4) Spidey goes to another planet and gets a new black costume, basically just because it's easier to draw.

5) Said costume turns out to be an alien creature.

6) Alien creature becomes big slobbery Venom.

7) Alien franchises out, birthing several other Venomish baddies like Carnage.

 

I'm sure people more familiar with Spiderology than I could expand that list.