Was World War 2 the best thing for Golden Age Comics?

[AnkurJ]

First of all, I start this thread with the utmost of respect for everyone and everyone's family that was involved in the war. There is no disrespect meant by anything said below.

 

So I was speaking with a dealer at a local show today about how many covers for Action Comics after #65 or so really went down hill. There were some pretty bad covers after the war ended. It made me think how much the war actually helped comic books. I'm not sure of the history behind it, but would Captain America exist if not for the war?

 

What do you guys think?

Ankur

[rjpb]

WW2 gave a boost to superhero comics with ready made villains in the Nazis and the Japanese, and quite clearly after the war the genre began to lose dominance. Still the phenomenal success of Superman and the rise of superhero comics was initially independent of the war in Europe, it wasn't until 1940 that superheroes started battling Nazi's and DC didn't really acknowledge the war until the U.S. was involved directly.

 

It's difficult to say if the superhero genre would have sustained as long as did without World War 2, as the actual time period of U.S. involvement is actually quite short, roughly 3 &1/2 years. Perhaps the novelty of costumed heroes with various powers would have lasted just as long without the war.

 

It is interesting that the Korean conflict just a few years later, while it elevated Communists, in particular the Chinese, to the level of villainy previously enjoyed by the Japanazis, caused an explosion in straight war comics, but did not lead to a superhero revival, and was barely acknowledged in the few remaining superhero books still being published. Atlas did seem to focus on Soviet villains during it's short lived superhero revival, but absent a hot war, I guess it wasn't enough to generate strong sales.

 

I'd say it's a safe bet, that absent WW2, there is a good chance Captain America may never have been created, though the character's longevity has shown that such a conflict isn't needed to maintain interest in him.

 

[samfromcalifornia]

Definitely Cap needed WWII. Take a look at the cover of Captain America #54(March '46). Captain America vs. the Beagle Boys would never have made the big time.

[shadroch]

Take a few million men in their late teens and early twenties, isolate them far from home and you have a captive audience. How many GIs that were massive readers stopped reading comics once they got home, went to work and had a steady girl?

[rjpb]

Comics continued to sell well after the war, but other genres replaced superheroes in popularity.

[PovertyRow]

WW2 gave a boost to superhero comics with ready made villains in the Nazis and the Japanese, and quite clearly after the war the genre began to lose dominance. Still the phenomenal success of Superman and the rise of superhero comics was initially independent of the war in Europe, it wasn't until 1940 that superheroes started battling Nazi's and DC didn't really acknowledge the war until the U.S. was involved directly.

 

It's difficult to say if the superhero genre would have sustained as long as did without World War 2, as the actual time period of U.S. involvement is actually quite short, roughly 3 &1/2 years. Perhaps the novelty of costumed heroes with various powers would have lasted just as long without the war.

 

It is interesting that the Korean conflict just a few years later, while it elevated Communists, in particular the Chinese, to the level of villainy previously enjoyed by the Japanazis, caused an explosion in straight war comics, but did not lead to a superhero revival, and was barely acknowledged in the few remaining superhero books still being published. Atlas did seem to focus on Soviet villains during it's short lived superhero revival, but absent a hot war, I guess it wasn't enough to generate strong sales.

 

I'd say it's a safe bet, that absent WW2, there is a good chance Captain America may never have been created, though the character's longevity has shown that such a conflict isn't needed to maintain interest in him.

 

Nicely said. Just to add a smidge to the Atlas take, the Kirby Big Monster, often the main story in the post-code pre-hero books, would have back stories with a communist bent. Usually not stated but just implied what country was involved.

[Magneto]

WW2 gave a boost to superhero comics with ready made villains in the Nazis and the Japanese, and quite clearly after the war the genre began to lose dominance. Still the phenomenal success of Superman and the rise of superhero comics was initially independent of the war in Europe, it wasn't until 1940 that superheroes started battling Nazi's and DC didn't really acknowledge the war until the U.S. was involved directly.

 

It's difficult to say if the superhero genre would have sustained as long as did without World War 2, as the actual time period of U.S. involvement is actually quite short, roughly 3 &1/2 years. Perhaps the novelty of costumed heroes with various powers would have lasted just as long without the war.

 

It is interesting that the Korean conflict just a few years later, while it elevated Communists, in particular the Chinese, to the level of villainy previously enjoyed by the Japanazis, caused an explosion in straight war comics, but did not lead to a superhero revival, and was barely acknowledged in the few remaining superhero books still being published. Atlas did seem to focus on Soviet villains during it's short lived superhero revival, but absent a hot war, I guess it wasn't enough to generate strong sales.

 

I'd say it's a safe bet, that absent WW2, there is a good chance Captain America may never have been created, though the character's longevity has shown that such a conflict isn't needed to maintain interest in him.

 

Great points! I am a history teacher and I often will use comicbook covers to show propaganda and the all out war effort that was taking place.

 

I honestly want to put together a High School history titles History through comic books and other forms of media.

[Theagenes]

Definitely Cap needed WWII. Take a look at the cover of Captain America #54(March '46). Captain America vs. the Beagle Boys would never have made the big time.

 

Cap would never have existed without WWII (even though the US wasn't involved yet when he came out).

[Scrooge]

Definitely Cap needed WWII. Take a look at the cover of Captain America #54(March '46). Captain America vs. the Beagle Boys would never have made the big time.

 

Cap would never have existed without WWII (even though the US wasn't involved yet when he came out).

 

His socking of Hitler on the cover of # 1 pretty much seals that.

[BB-Gun]

Comics were a great vehicle for propaganda and they were used very effectively during the war. On the down side, comics published during the war had only one staple. Loss of the staple and writing of single minded plots were probably negative factors in the development of a new media. Inflation and reduction of pages after the war were another negative effect. Overall, I think we could have done without the war but it is/was difficult to convince fascists otherwise..

 

On the positive side, Captain America, Captain Freedom, Fighting American, The Shield and other patriotic heroes were handled very well and a pleasure to read, 60-70 years after the war.

 

[zosocane]

I think that without WWII, the Golden Age would have flourished nonetheless -- publishers realized in the late 1930s that this relatively new medium was a gold mine with the success of publications like Action, Detective, Marvel Mystery, Whiz, etc. But the stories would have been very crime-fighting-centric, and to a lesser degree sci-fi inspired. I picture a lot of the late 40s cops-and-robbers stories being more prominent between '42 through '45. Certainly there would be no Captain America or Shield-Wizard or other patriotic heros. But there would still have been a Superman and a Sub-Mariner.

 

Would there have been a Wonder Woman I wonder?

[mysterio]

WW2 gave a boost to superhero comics with ready made villains in the Nazis and the Japanese, and quite clearly after the war the genre began to lose dominance. Still the phenomenal success of Superman and the rise of superhero comics was initially independent of the war in Europe, it wasn't until 1940 that superheroes started battling Nazi's and DC didn't really acknowledge the war until the U.S. was involved directly.

 

It's difficult to say if the superhero genre would have sustained as long as did without World War 2, as the actual time period of U.S. involvement is actually quite short, roughly 3 &1/2 years. Perhaps the novelty of costumed heroes with various powers would have lasted just as long without the war.

 

It is interesting that the Korean conflict just a few years later, while it elevated Communists, in particular the Chinese, to the level of villainy previously enjoyed by the Japanazis, caused an explosion in straight war comics, but did not lead to a superhero revival, and was barely acknowledged in the few remaining superhero books still being published. Atlas did seem to focus on Soviet villains during it's short lived superhero revival, but absent a hot war, I guess it wasn't enough to generate strong sales.

 

I'd say it's a safe bet, that absent WW2, there is a good chance Captain America may never have been created, though the character's longevity has shown that such a conflict isn't needed to maintain interest in him.

 

Nicely said. Just to add a smidge to the Atlas take, the Kirby Big Monster, often the main story in the post-code pre-hero books, would have back stories with a communist bent. Usually not stated but just implied what country was involved.

 

Lots of Communist villains in the early SA Marvel hero books too (TOS, TTA, Hulk to name a few).

[Theagenes]

 

Would there have been a Wonder Woman I wonder?

 

I think so. It was only a matter of time before someone would try to make a female version of Superman. She might not have had the stars and stripes costume though.

[Holmes]

No doubt that WWII provided the impetus for the Golden Age. As I recall nearly 35% of all printed material sent over seas were comics.

[sfcityduck]

There's no need to debate this one: History demonstrates that the GA was going strong before WWII became an important theme in GA comics.

 

Superman, Batman, Captain Marvel, etc., were all created and obtained popularity without any impetus from WWII. And most of those characters thrived without much in the way of WWII themed stories. In fact, DC discontinued WWII themes on its covers prior to the end of the war because they found that WWII themes were hurting sales (and stressing out their readers).

 

Captain America (a Shield ripoff) was late entry to the pantheon of superheros, and he did not have much staying power after the end of the war. Other "patriotic" superheros like the Shield didn't last long either. So, while those characters may not have been created without the spectre of war looming on the horizon, they didn't last long after the war so its hard to say they were integral to the strength of the GA.

 

In short, WWII was not a necessary creative inspiration. Of course, we can also play a lot of what ifs as to what comics would have looked like if certain key talents weren't inducted into the military.

 

Nor was WWII a necessary financial condition. Superman and Batman were huge hits before WWII, with Superman 1 dropping in the summer of 1939 and Batman 1 dropping in early 1940. Superhero comics were going to thrive regardless of WWII. If anything, WWII hurt publishers because of the strict rationing of paper that led to reductions in the number of titles that publishers could put out.

 

Without WWII, we would not have seen all those great Schomburg WWII themed covers. Instead, we likely would have seen a lot of great Schomburg crime, mad scientist, and science fiction themed covers. The GA would have been different, but it still would have happened. Korea and the Silver Age established, if there was any doubt, that the strength of superhero comics is not tied to U.S. involvement in a war.

 

In terms of pop culture, very little of import that derives from the WWII GA is still significant today. Perhaps only Captain America, and he really only survives because of his SA revival as just another member of the Avengers, not because of anything intrinsic to WWII.

 

So, for me, the correct answer to the question from a general historical perspective is clearly "no." I do expect those fans who collect WWII covers to disagree, for obvious reasons.

[Theagenes]

There's no need to debate this one: History demonstrates that the GA was going strong before WWII became an important theme in GA comics.

 

 

You have a tendacy to post in absolutes. I think you often have an interesting perspective on a number topics even when I don't agree with you, but you should really learn to use the occasional qualifier like "possibly" or "most likely."

 

No one doubts that the GA took off just prior to the outbreak of the war, and a couple of years before America's involvement in the war. But would it have fizzled out in a year or two like most fads if the war hadn't provided fresh material? The fact that it did fizzle as soon as the war was over would seem to suggest that possibility. Did international tension in the years leading up to the war create a zeitgeist that made the superhero genre successful at that particular time? The superhero concept itself is often labeled as quasi-facist---if so, did the same socio-economic conditions that led to the rise of fascism in Europe also lead to its more benign popular culture expression in America? These are certainly fair and interesting questions to ask if you willing to go beyond pat answers and they are most definitely worthy of debate..

[Cat-Man_America]

[font:Times New Roman]WWII was crucial to the development of patriotic superheroes, but that's about it. As BB-Gun mentioned, comics were an effective propaganda tool both at home and abroad. Nevertheless, the ascendence of comics popularity isn't directly tied to WWII.

 

Throughout 1940 and '41 comics developed at a very rapid pace independent of the foreshadowed war. Undoubtably the threat of war played a role in occasional story-lines and contributed to the origins of some patriotic themed costumed characters, but in terms of the comics industry the war in europe had very little impact.

 

In fact, a convincing argument could be made that being placed on a war footing here at home after Pearl Harbor, from 1942 through the War's conclusion in '45, actually had a stifling effect on the growth of comics!

 

This is why:

 

1. Wartime restrictions impacted everything, and sacrificed staples were only a small part. Publishers were rationed paper and smaller publishers with borderline sales and limited influence with the rationing boards were either driven out of business or forced to limit/shut-down lines in order to survive. Others took serious legal risks trying to acquire black market supplies of paper stock.

 

2. Comic creators, many of the industry's best artists and writers (S&K, Bill Everett, Will Eisner, etc., etc.), were drafted or volunteered for military service. This didn't cripple the industry because there were always artists and writers of varying talent ready to step up and fill job vacancies, but the war effort created a vacuum of experience that publishers struggled to replenish. While many great comics appeared over the course of the war, there was also mediocrity.

 

3. Super villains, the next logical step in developing compelling story-lines with worthy adversaries for costumed superheroes were stopped cold by the war. Sure, there were occasional recurring villains, including legions of mad scientists and femme fatales popping up, but most were tied to the evils of the Axis. After having very real villains like Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo provided as props, how could any commonplace murderer, crime lord or petty thief hope to capture the reader's attention?

 

With Victory, superheroes suddenly had to struggle to find villains here at home that could measure up. All powerful heroes battling second rate thugs no longer held young reader interest and older readers wanted more sophisticated entertainment. In response, many publishers turned to graphic content (sex and real crime) while eschewing or marginalizing costumed characters with secret identities.

 

The GA is a perplexing hodge-podge of creativity that extends from colorful costumed characters, to GGA, to sensationalized crime, to horror and SF. Without WWII we might never have had Captain America, but that's uncertain. According to Joe Simon, the art for Cap #1 was complete and on the shelf waiting to be pitched even before Martin Goodman asked him if he had any ideas for a patriotic superhero.

 

It's worth noting that the Shield (G-Man extraordinaire), whose costume and super strength obviously influenced Cap's creation, appeared on the stands in late '39 without war drums beating in the background. The Shield fought all sorts of conventional villains over that first year in Pep Comics. Apparently the magazine did quite well before the war and long before Archie took the lead.

 

So, who knows, if Hitler had been assassinated prior to Captain America's first appearance in 1941, we might've been introduced to Cap battling the Red Skull on the first cover and the evolution of an entirely different series.[/font]

[Sqeggs]

Definitely Cap needed WWII. Take a look at the cover of Captain America #54(March '46). Captain America vs. the Beagle Boys would never have made the big time.

 

Cap would never have existed without WWII (even though the US wasn't involved yet when he came out).

 

His socking of Hitler on the cover of # 1 pretty much seals that.

 

Timely, at any rate, didn't seem to pull any punches that the Nazis were the enemy, even before the U.S. entered the war. Doesn't seem remarkable in hindsight, but at the time the America First movement had a lot of supporters -- the bill to reinstitute the draft in 1940 passed by only one vote in the House of Representatives. So, Timely was running the risk of alienating some potential readers with stories that clearly were in favor of the U.S. entering the war.

 

Of course, Cap was a big hit right from the first issue, so maybe they knew what they were doing commercially.

[ComicConnoisseur]

No!

Why?

Batman,Superman and Captain America were the most important thing in GA because without those characters I doubt comic books would be this popular with modern mainstream culture.

Especially DC,as they probally would have went out of business in the 1950s along with the other dozens of comic book publishers who perished.

[sfcityduck]

[font:Times New Roman]

 

3. Super villains, the next logical step in developing compelling story-lines with worthy adversaries for costumed superheroes were stopped cold by the war. Sure, there were occasional recurring villains, including legions of mad scientists and femme fatales popping up, but most were tied to the evils of the Axis. After having very real villains like Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo provided as props, how could any commonplace murderer, crime lord and petty gangster hope to compete for reader attention?

 

With victory, superheroes suddenly had to struggle to find villains here at home that could measure up. All powerful heroes battling second rate thugs no longer held young reader interest and older readers wanted more sophisticated entertainment. In response, many publishers turned to graphic content (sex and real crime) while eschewing or marginalizing costumed drama and secret identities.

 

[/font]

 

We're clearly on exactly the same page, but I think your point 3, which I didn't make, is really worthy of highlighting. In fact, this is an insight I've never seen before. I think you make a quite compelling argument that WWII may well have stunted the development of what ultimately made superhero comics compelling: good supervillians.

 

Many kudos!

 

I also agree that the end of WWII did not mean the end of the GA. It didn't even mean the end of GA superheros, as that trend really took a downturn a few years later. To this effect, I think a good argument could be made that the rise of non-superhero genre comics and concommittant demise in superhero comics might have been a reflection of publishers going after ex-GI readers. Prior to and during the war, publishers were shooting for the kid market, and the GIs were bonus readers who weren't impacting sales. After the war, ex-GIs were now part of the domestic comic market and their purchasing drove the sales towards the comics that had more "adult" fare. Viewed in that light, it was the readership changes brought by WWII which ended the GA of superheros.