What does PRESSING IT OUT mean exactly?

[delekkerste]

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

 

This seems disingenuous. Do you really think that most collectors of high grade unrestored books can build their collections by finding unblemished original owner high grade collections themselves? How many board members other than yourself who aren't full time dealers have built large collections with complete runs of multiple titles that way? I think the number is quite small, and not because of the inconvenience, but rather the difficulty of finding several of these collections before full time dealers have snapped them up.

 

My high grade Bronze collection was built by buying off the rack, but seeing as how I'm ancient in Board years, this doesn't seem like it was a viable option for most either.

 

Of course it's disingenuous, Bob! It's totally preposterous to suggest that anyone who wants to collect unmanipulated high grade has to go out and unearth OO HG collections that happen to have just the books they're looking for. So, Andy, let's say I'm interested in buying 100 specific books in high grade. I'm supposed to go out and discover these myself? And, if I do manage to find a collection that somehow everybody else has missed, with, say, 500 books, what am I supposed to do? Buy out the whole thing to get the 8 books I want from that collection, but, oh wait, only 3 of them are in the grade that I require? That's not collecting. That's being a dealer or quasi-dealer and buying out a collection for resale and maybe keeping a few for your personal stash. It is ludicrous to suggest that this is what I should be willing to do if I want to collect what I want to collect. Not everyone values their time, money and sanity so little to think this is the way to enjoy one's hobby.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

No.

 

Pressing is a combination of pressure, temperature, humidity and time.

[DiceX]

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process?

 

I put riboflavin and red dye #2 on all comics before pressing them. (thumbs u

 

 

[BeachBum]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

[BeachBum]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

I just noticed she "pressed it out" to a 10.0!

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

It's not profitable? So you don't make money, and you sell to pressers who wreck the books and destroyed your love of high grade anyway? That's your argument?

 

I deserve to make a profit because of the amount of hard work I put in, because of the years of good deals I've made to build a rep, because of the transparency I bring to my dealings.

 

Now this is amusing. Are you the ultimate one to determine who is allowed to make profits, and how much, and in what way? My goodness.

 

Could somebody please point out where I said that pressers were evil and didn't deserve to make a profit?

 

This all started because I stated why I left collecting.

 

End of.

 

I have not accused pressers of being immoral, or being unworthy of earning a living.

 

I said that pressing had taken the magic away from collecting for me - so I stopped.

 

I'm still waiting?

[slym2none]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

No.

 

Pressing is a combination of pressure, temperature, humidity and time.

 

Thank you - at least one doesn't have to worry about their books falling apart due to aggressive break-down due to a chemical agent.

 

 

 

-slym

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

But you could never rule out that a book had once been pressed, even decades ago, and then acquired new defects from storage, handling, encapsulation, SCS, etc.

 

Exactly, so the really sneaky ones would have a book pressed, then introduce "just enough" non-grade affecting flaws to make it appear "virgin" - and so forth!

Absolutely.

 

We just had a discussion today about a trimmer who was rubbing dirt or clay into the freshly trimmed edges. I once found an AF15 with a reproduction cover that had been altered to make it look aged. If it can be done, it will.

[Awax]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

I just noticed she "pressed it out" to a 10.0!

 

 

Looks to go beyond 10

[dudeman5000]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

 

 

Chris

[HarveySwick]

Pressing comics is a process where typically a dry mount press is used at low heat in conjunction with moisture, which helps relax the paper fibers, in order to remove bends, dents, and rolls from the books. Often the whole process can be completed in a matter of minutes.

 

Books with defects like the ones listed above that do not break color can be pressed into extremely high grade.

 

Pressing when done properly is extremely difficult to detect. Definitely difficult to detect on a consistent basis. The end result of dry mount pressing is also similar, if not identical, to the end result as if the book were stored in optimal and certain conditions (flat and under some amount of pressure) for a long period of time, which also makes it difficult for anyone to determine if a book has been pressed or not.

 

CGC has chosen not to consider pressing restoration. Most likely, because it can not be detected consistently, or determined if it was done intentionally by mechanical means or not. It's also believed that they choose not to because it helps continue to bring in more business. They often grade the same book two, three or more times, because they are purchased, cracked out, often pressed, and resubmitted in hopes of a higher grade.

 

Many consider pressing restoration, and by definition it is. It's a process of removing defects, which restores a book to a state closer to which it was when it was manufactured.

 

Many do not consider it restoration. Probably, because as mentioned, the same results can be found naturally over a longer period of time. The logic there is: If you stored a book poorly and it gained defects because of poor storage, it would be down graded for it. ie: a stacking curl. Conversely, if you stored a book, that already had a stacking curl, flat enough and long enough to remove the curl, you would grade it in it's current state. Not down grading it for a curl that no longer exists.

 

Many consider pressing to be so non invasive that it really doesn't bother them. Some are completely turned off by it, and don't want to own any books that have been pressed. For this reason, disclosure is a hot topic. Most believe that the information should be disclosed to any potential buyers. Many believe that information should be pro-active. Many care very little about pressing, and just don't care to ask or keep track. Some use the logic that "CGC doesn't mind it, I don't mind it, so if someone that does mind it wants to know, then they should ask."

 

Without a doubt. Pressing makes pretty books. It also goes without saying that the driving force behind the popularity of pressing is the possible financial gains to be made form the process. Perhaps, also, it's acceptance is rooted in the fact that it is very non invasive and does make a good product with all original material (nothing physically added or taken away). As an example you will find the comic community less divided on issues of tape and a newer result of pressing being referred to as "spine re-alignment therepy". Those are widely frowned upon.

 

There are many debates on pressing and disclosure that can be found here on the CGC chat boards.

 

You're a better man that I, Mike.

 

However, I fully endorse this post. (thumbs u

 

Very well worded post for sure! That captures the essence of the topic and defines it amazingly well.

 

+1

[ComicConnoisseur]

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

 

This seems disingenuous. Do you really think that most collectors of high grade unrestored books can build their collections by finding unblemished original owner high grade collections themselves? How many board members other than yourself who aren't full time dealers have built large collections that way? I think the number is quite small, and not because of the inconvenience, but rather the difficulty of finding several of these collections before full time dealers have.

 

I think it would be tough. Very tough, but I do think it could be done, especially by building a network of dealers that can be trusted to disclose if asked.

 

People on here have collected every DC comic in existence, completed sets of Centaurs, and surmounted plenty of comic book challenges...I find it hard to believe that putting together a set of unmanipulated Silver Age Marvels would be harder.

 

So who here has done it?

 

Who here are really tried putting together a set straight from the source? None that I am aware of.

 

The finances are a limiting issue, especially when going after a complete run of SA Marvels in ultra high grade. It is the rare collection that has them in depth and breadth, and when one finds such a collection the cost of buying it all at once is prohibitive. For most of us, slow and steady accumulation is our only viable option.

 

When I came across the Pacific Coast Marvels in the spring of '99 as they were brought to market en masse by PCEI, I bought 13 of them, which is about all I could afford and was willing to buy sight unseen. It was the dealers like Arrand and Schmell who stepped in shortly thereafter, flew to Rancho Palos Verdes to see the comics, and bought the complete titles.

Has a good eye for high grade comic books. His collection was one of the highest graded ever!

[drbanner]

His collection was one of the highest graded ever!

 

Ah, the wonders of pressing and having the ability to lobby CGC to bump the grades of your books...

[ARWilson-migration]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

No.

 

Pressing is a combination of pressure, temperature, humidity and time.

 

What about release paper? Wasn't Comicwiz talking about possibly detecting pressed books by the chemical (?) residue left by the release paper?

[skypinkblu]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

No.

 

Pressing is a combination of pressure, temperature, humidity and time.

 

Heat is an issue. If someone who does not know what they are doing presses the books, if the heat is too high, the book can look like a shirt I've ironed. Crispy! Same with humidity.

 

Remember the "waffle books"?

 

Of course there are people like JoeyPost who do this constantly and are careful, I'm sure he doesn't have very many mistakes, but with everyone and their grandmother going into pressing and not knowing what they are doing, there are certainly books being damaged.

 

 

Now I enjoy looking through my books, and I don't preserve them in cryogenic containers, but if someone is concerned about pristine copies, the heat and humidity certainly could be a concern if the books are pressed by amateurs.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

No.

 

Pressing is a combination of pressure, temperature, humidity and time.

 

What about release paper? Wasn't Comicwiz talking about possibly detecting pressed books by the chemical (?) residue left by the release paper?

 

Someone was talking about the future possibility of detecting embedded silicone from the release paper. I don't remember if it was Comicwiz.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

No.

 

Pressing is a combination of pressure, temperature, humidity and time.

 

Heat is an issue. If someone who does not know what they are doing presses the books, if the heat is too high, the book can look like a shirt I've ironed. Crispy! Same with humidity.

 

Remember the "waffle books"?

 

Of course there are people like JoeyPost who do this constantly and are careful, I'm sure he doesn't have very many mistakes, but with everyone and their grandmother going into pressing and not knowing what they are doing, there are certainly books being damaged.

 

 

Now I enjoy looking through my books, and I don't preserve them in cryogenic containers, but if someone is concerned about pristine copies, the heat and humidity certainly could be a concern if the books are pressed by amateurs.

 

I agree. Improper pressing techniques are a concern. But then, so is improper storage.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

 

This seems disingenuous. Do you really think that most collectors of high grade unrestored books can build their collections by finding unblemished original owner high grade collections themselves? How many board members other than yourself who aren't full time dealers have built large collections with complete runs of multiple titles that way? I think the number is quite small, and not because of the inconvenience, but rather the difficulty of finding several of these collections before full time dealers have snapped them up.

 

My high grade Bronze collection was built by buying off the rack, but seeing as how I'm ancient in Board years, this doesn't seem like it was a viable option for most either.

 

Of course it's disingenuous, Bob! It's totally preposterous to suggest that anyone who wants to collect unmanipulated high grade has to go out and unearth OO HG collections that happen to have just the books they're looking for. So, Andy, let's say I'm interested in buying 100 specific books in high grade. I'm supposed to go out and discover these myself? And, if I do manage to find a collection that somehow everybody else has missed, with, say, 500 books, what am I supposed to do? Buy out the whole thing to get the 8 books I want from that collection, but, oh wait, only 3 of them are in the grade that I require? That's not collecting. That's being a dealer or quasi-dealer and buying out a collection for resale and maybe keeping a few for your personal stash. It is ludicrous to suggest that this is what I should be willing to do if I want to collect what I want to collect. Not everyone values their time, money and sanity so little to think this is the way to enjoy one's hobby.

 

Sorry Gene, its not preposterous at all. Even before I resold a single book, back when I was a pure collector, I would in fact buy 1-2k book collections, even if there was only a handful of books I wanted for myself. The rest of the stuff would either sit in my garage or get traded off to another collector in time. I get that you would prefer to pay a dealer for the convenience of having done the work for you, because as you said your time is valuable to you, but let's be honest, not everyone does.

 

 

[delekkerste]

Sorry Gene, its not preposterous at all. Even before I resold a single book, back when I was a pure collector, I would in fact buy 1-2k book collections, even if there was only a handful of books I wanted for myself. The rest of the stuff would either sit in my garage or get traded off to another collector in time. I get that you would prefer to pay a dealer for the convenience of having done the work for you, because as you said your time is valuable to you, but let's be honest, not everyone does.

 

 

George, I'm not saying that there aren't people like yourself who would be willing to do this. But, this is really wholesaling, not collecting. For a hobbyist with the collecting goals I described, you would be hard-pressed (no pun intended) to come up with a more painful and inefficient manner of collecting books. It is a preposterous proposition to suggest that anyone who wants to collect specific, unmolested, super high grade should have to resort to such measures. It would sap all the enjoyment out of the hobby for me as it would turn it into a de facto wholesaling business.

 

I understand that there are people who may not have specific collecting aims and just try to uncover the undiscovered (sadly, mostly so they can press and resell most of the books), but it's really unfair to belittle the collector who isn't willing to go to such extreme measures to collect what he wants and tell him that this is the only avenue left to him for what he wants to achieve in the hobby. I think Fingh has been spot-on with what he's said regarding this matter.

[bababooey]