Downgrading for Marvel Chipping?

[drbanner]

Does anyone have any insight as to how much CGC downgrades for Marvel Chipping as opposed to any other kind of chipping/pieces missing? Any good examples of scans of CGC 6.0+ books with significant chips out? How about with corner pieces missing, or other obvious non-Marvel chipping pieces missing?

 

How does the O-street grading guide address pieces missing, and/or MC?

 

IMHO it shouldn't matter "why" the pieces are missing, they should be accounted for the same. I'm not sure everyone else agrees. In addition, in most cases of Marvel Chipping, there are also "pre-Marvel Chipping tears" (I believe there was a thread on the tears recently).

[ArAich]

Check out THIS auction for an idea of how chipping is sometimes tolerated when grading....

[seank]

Marvel chipping is different than the chipping on that Batman. I'm no expert, but I believe it's accepted because it was so common in old Marvels. It had something to do with the quality of paper they used or something in the production that was intrinsic to the comic book. Compare that with a flaw that happened after the book hit the newstand like a fold or a tear.

 

Marvel chipping is what you could call an "acceptable flaw." Date stamps on older books are the same thing, IMHO.

[fantastic_four]

I saw this book on ComicLink back in 2000 before I was saving scans as examples of grading, but one of the pedigreed copies of Amazing Fantasy 15 is a CGC 6.5 due to chipping. Might've been Boston, but I really can't remember. It looks like a 9.4 except for several inches of chips on the right-top edge; there is probably a total of between 1 and 2 square inches missing from the right, although the missing part is no wider than 1/4" at any given point and that 1-2 square inches estimate is an aggregate.

 

Wish I had saved a scan!

[hammer-migration]

I think you are referring to a 7.5 AF15 that was recently on Ebay, that had right edge chipping. Didn't make the opener or reserve. There's been NUMEROUS Spiderman 1's, some graded as high as 8.5 that have had a series of combined chips and pre-chips on the right edge (not just one or two isolated chips). This is quite a common occurrence from what I've seen on BOTH books in grades 6.0 to 8.5 .

[PovertyRow]

It had something to do with the quality of paper they used or something in the production that was intrinsic to the comic book.

 

Yep. It was caused by a dull blade in the trimming process. Instead of slicing sharply, the dullness of the blade caused slight "pulling" of the paper. Initially the books probably looked "just ok" with some dimpling/crinkling from the pulling, although some chipping may have been there on distribution - not sure about that.. But over time and handling the weakness caused the areas to fall off and the result: Marvel Chipping. You can still see the dimpling/crinkling in some of the books.

[aardvark88]

Borock publicly stated at a San Diego con grading seminar that cgc does not deduct many (if any) points off for Marvel chipping b/c it is so common. This caused an uproar on the panel by other esteemed graders like Robt Roter (PCE) & Gary Carter (early CBM & Ostreet Grading Guide #1). Have seen several examples of ASM 1 in cgc 8.0 or 8.5 with 3 or 4 inches of chipping on right edge.

[drbanner]

The grading guide doesn't allow "missing pieces" until you get down to VG. Unfortunately, there are pictures of books as high as VF with pieces out, including the All Select 1 on page 204 with a "corner chip" missing (about the size of the diameter of a pencil eraser - looks like the book Parrino had?) I have a Spidey 2 CGC FN 6.0 with a little bit of chipping (about 4 chips, total area around half the size of a dime) that looks like a VF without it - bit of corner rounding at the bottom of the spine, light wear along the top edge "overflash", and a 1/8" tear back cover (scan below).

 

Interestingly, I have not noticed Marvel Chipping on the back cover of many books. I believe the ink layer of the front cover causes the paper to be hard to cut, and somewhat "brittle" relative to the back cover.

 

[sborock]

"Borock publicly stated at a San Diego con grading seminar that cgc does not deduct many (if any) points off for Marvel chipping b/c it is so common. This caused an uproar on the panel by other esteemed graders like Robt Roter (PCE) & Gary Carter (early CBM & Ostreet Grading Guide #1). Have seen several examples of ASM 1 in cgc 8.0 or 8.5 with 3 or 4 inches of chipping on right edge."

 

Not really the way it happened.........

 

I stated (and still do) that we take off less for Marvel chipping or pre-Marvel chipping(same thing with bindery tears and bindery chips on Golden Age comics) than we would for pieces that came off or tears that happen because of handling. Carter probably disagreed, but Roter takes off less for Marvel chipping than CGC does, just ask him.

 

Oh, and no "uproar" happened. The only time there seemed to be any kind of disagreements was when Naiman(supposed to be a moderator) was butting in trying to bring up split grades (his usual peeve) and when I wanted to keep it a grading seminar not a ask CGC seminar. All those people on the panel had so much knowledge that turning it into a CGC thing would have been doing a dis-service to the people in the audience who wanted to learn about grading.

[drbanner]

Thanks for the clarification Steve...