When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[Dr. Balls]

Hopefully this thread lasts the night.

 

I think it might. Unless the guy who thinks pressing is akin to sexual molestation comes back. That might escalate it to lock status.

[miraclemet]

Hopefully this thread lasts the night. 'TIL FRIDAY

 

Fixed it for ya!

[Porcelain Monkey-migration]

There should be two categories of restoration - those that add things that were not there (fixing tears, color touch, missing pieces, glue, whatever) and those that restore a book to it's original condition without doing that (cleaning, pressing, ...can't think of any more)

 

This is also distinct from conservation, which should stabilize aspects of a book without adding anything that can not at a later date be removed. Conservation techniques could hold a tear in place so further handling does not make it worse. The distinction is that conservation can be removed without any trace if it is not wanted or better conservation techniques become available in the future.

 

This seems to be the only collecting hobby that does not distinguish these. In many hobbies I can think of restoration and conservation add to the value of an item.

[Davenport]

How is selling a pressed book cheating the buyer (a'la a con artist)?

 

Buyer is buying a CGC 9.8 book, Buyer pays for a CGC 9.8 book, Buyer gets a CGC 9.8 book.

 

Where's the con?

 

Use a 2-person scenario to see it...

Collector confides to Player he wants to sell is CGC 9.4 and upgrade to a CGC 9.8. Player says he can help with that and buys Collector's 9.4, will keep a look-out for a nice CGC 9.8. Customer service, you know.

 

After a time Player calls Collector and says he's located a beautiful CGC 9.8 he thinks Collector will be interested in.

 

Player sells Collector back his comic at a sizable premium, not disclosing his 9.4 was pressed to its new 9.8 incarnation.

Was Collector conned?

 

A transaction where one person withholds information to tilt the exchange to his favor isn't a mutual transaction.

Both parties being aware, both parties can decide to transact or not: Mutual.

 

[DamageInc-migration]

Cause if you don't you're no different than the Pilgrams trading pox infested blankets to the Native Americans.

 

Pilgrims? I thought that happened in the 19th century (?)

 

HEY! My hyperbole doesnt have to be historically accurate!

 

Just equal parts HYPER and BOLE

 

(anyone know what bole is?)

 

I know vole, mole, and bolus, but not bole

[Dr. Balls]

There should be two categories of restoration - those that add things that were not there (fixing tears, color touch, missing pieces, glue, whatever) and those that restore a book to it's original condition without doing that (cleaning, pressing, ...can't think of any more)

 

This is also distinct from conservation, which should stabilize aspects of a book without adding anything that can not at a later date be removed. Conservation techniques could hold a tear in place so further handling does not make it worse. The distinction is that conservation can be removed without any trace if it is not wanted or better conservation techniques become available in the future.

 

This seems to be the only collecting hobby that does not distinguish these. In many hobbies I can think of restoration and conservation add to the value of an item.

 

I have always liked the term 'conservation' - although, for collectors it's too much like 'restoration', even though every bagged and boarded comic book in the world falls under the category of 'conservation'.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

How is selling a pressed book cheating the buyer (a'la a con artist)?

 

Buyer is buying a CGC 9.8 book, Buyer pays for a CGC 9.8 book, Buyer gets a CGC 9.8 book.

 

Where's the con?

 

Use a 2-person scenario to see it...

Collector confides to Player he wants to sell is CGC 9.4 and upgrade to a CGC 9.8. Player says he can help with that and buys Collector's 9.4, will keep a look-out for a nice CGC 9.8. Customer service, you know.

 

After a time Player calls Collector and says he's located a beautiful CGC 9.8 he thinks Collector will be interested in.

 

Player sells Collector back his comic at a sizable premium, not disclosing his 9.4 was pressed to its new 9.8 incarnation.

Was Collector conned?

 

A transaction where one person withholds information to tilt the exchange to his favor isn't a mutual transaction.

Both parties being aware, both parties can decide to transact or not: Mutual.

 

Some might say this is more entrepreneurial than con. The collector wanted a 9.8, the player provided the means and was paid a mutually agreed price for his efforts. Would the collector be in a better position if he had purchased a different 9.8?

 

Are wheat farmers being conned by the bakery when they buy a loaf of bread?

[Porcelain Monkey-migration]

There should be two categories of restoration - those that add things that were not there (fixing tears, color touch, missing pieces, glue, whatever) and those that restore a book to it's original condition without doing that (cleaning, pressing, ...can't think of any more)

 

This is also distinct from conservation, which should stabilize aspects of a book without adding anything that can not at a later date be removed. Conservation techniques could hold a tear in place so further handling does not make it worse. The distinction is that conservation can be removed without any trace if it is not wanted or better conservation techniques become available in the future.

 

This seems to be the only collecting hobby that does not distinguish these. In many hobbies I can think of restoration and conservation add to the value of an item.

 

I have always liked the term 'conservation' - although, for collectors it's too much like 'restoration', even though every bagged and boarded comic book in the world falls under the category of 'conservation'.

 

The distinction is that conservation can be undone if needed or wanted. Ask any museum in the world. I think there should be further distinction between restoration that permanently adds things that were not there, and restoration that removes a defect without adding anything new.

[rjpb]

 

Example: I have a nice copy of ASM 129. I'd call it VF. (I prefer words to numbers, but call it 8.0 if you wish.) The only thing keeping it from VF/NM 9.0 or higher is a bend, non color-breaking in the upper right corner. It's as if the book was stored with its upper right corner leaning over something. Is pressing likely to fix this? This book is in my collection and I think I would enjoy it more if it was flatter. If it comes time to slab and or sell at some point, having it worth more with a bump up in condition is nice as well.

 

Example 2: ASM 100. The book seems to have gotten damp at some point and is warped/wavy all through. No water damage or rusty staples, just serious waves. Will pressing likely fix this. This book is a duplicate and I could certainly sell or trade for something else I want, but would like to maximize my value.

 

Thoughts?

 

Very high probability on the first example, especially if it's a NCB bend and not even a crease.

 

The second would depend on the severity, but I've seen some serious warping/waviness removed by competent pressers.

 

 

I've wondered just how much evidence of a ncb crease ( not a bend) can be pressed out. I had a book with a 1" ncb crease that had been flattened ( I'm guessing by time and storage) and was nearly invisible on the outside front, but a line of "roped" fiber was in evidence on the interior cover. I was happy to have it come back from CGC a 9.0. After I sold it, the same book later turned up in a 9.4 holder, and I can only assume that all evidence of the crease had been pressed out, or someone dropped the ball at CGC.

 

[Porcelain Monkey-migration]

How is selling a pressed book cheating the buyer (a'la a con artist)?

 

Buyer is buying a CGC 9.8 book, Buyer pays for a CGC 9.8 book, Buyer gets a CGC 9.8 book.

 

Where's the con?

 

Use a 2-person scenario to see it...

Collector confides to Player he wants to sell is CGC 9.4 and upgrade to a CGC 9.8. Player says he can help with that and buys Collector's 9.4, will keep a look-out for a nice CGC 9.8. Customer service, you know.

 

After a time Player calls Collector and says he's located a beautiful CGC 9.8 he thinks Collector will be interested in.

 

Player sells Collector back his comic at a sizable premium, not disclosing his 9.4 was pressed to its new 9.8 incarnation.

Was Collector conned?

 

A transaction where one person withholds information to tilt the exchange to his favor isn't a mutual transaction.

Both parties being aware, both parties can decide to transact or not: Mutual.

 

Some might say this is more entrepreneurial than con. The collector wanted a 9.8, the player provided the means and was paid a mutually agreed price for his efforts. Would the collector be in a better position if he had purchased a different 9.8?

 

Are wheat farmers being conned by the bakery when they buy a loaf of bread?

 

I really don't want to take a side here, because I feel in my gut that this is below board if it is not disclosed, but I will point out that the risk is taken by the "player" here as the comic could come back a 9.4, 9.6 or even 9.2 despite the pressing.

[pickycollector]

I was wondering how long it would take before undisclosed pressing would be compared to Ariel Castro.

 

Yes, truly 'The Saddest Day Ever'.

 

Everything is on eleven around here.

 

No kidding.

 

But it will be cool to watch this thread calmly discuss the pros and cons of pressing.

 

What are truly the Cons of pressing though? It is a low risk high reward endeavor. You aren't adding anything to the book.

 

The only con I see with pressing is how mysterious the process is.

 

There are a variety of reasonings why people don't like pressed books, usually grounded in personal feelings toward the process - but there may be more to those reasons. It's hard to tell, though - because the harelips around here usually junk up the thread and dilute the discussion.

 

Interesting factoid: the temperature you expose the book to in a press is the same temperature that the paper is exposed to when curing the inks when it comes off the press (180-220 degrees).

Pressed books have flattened/crushed spine and look like pancakes. That is one good reason enough for me why I don't like pressed books. Almost undetectable when books stay in their CGC holders but rather easy to see if raw. That is true for books with staples. I must confess however that for squarebound books (like Annuals or Giant-Size issues) it is extremely hard to tell the difference even when raw.

 

But who would press books if not for submitting to CGC ? There is a minority of books that will really benefit from pressing and improve in eye appeal, but most will be pressed just to improve the value once CGC graded. And CGC is doing its own house pressing now....

 

I have books pressed without submitting.

That is the minority though, as most pressed books sit in a CGC holder.

 

It is late here. In the morning I will try and post some pics of books from the same oo collection some pressed and some not. I have never compared them. It will be interesting to compare the spines.

It will be nearly impossible to tell from scans/pictures, it's already almost undetectable through a CGC holder. The only way you can tell is by holding the book raw in your hands.

 

In all honesty, if you really cannot see a difference after you compare the spine of your unpressed and pressed books (with staples) from that collection, please PM me with the name of your presser

[Jeffro.]

Pressing is restoration, no matter how slight and non-intrusive.

 

I don't believe pressing is restoration, nor is it repair - because the process in which it works does not introduce anything (chemical or material) into the book that was not there originally in order to bring it back to a previous state of condition.

 

That's the definition of restoration.

 

I'm not discussing the definition of restoration. I am discussing what determines restoration. In order to declare something has been restored, you have to be able to detect the repairs - you can't do that with heat and pressure - because those two qualities can be applied to the book at any time in it's existence.

 

This is why this topic is a very muddy philosophical debate.

 

In some instances you can detect pressing.

[DrWatson]

I basically think of pressing books as an organized criminal enterprise. I believe the people who participate could be charged under RICO. The people who press books and sell them without disclosing the pressing are probably guilty of larceny by false pretenses. The people who press books for pay know full well that many of the books they press will be sold without disclosure of the pressing, so I believe they could be charged as well.

Organized crime, eh?

 

Well, let's examine that just a bit.

 

Organized crime really hit its stride when prohibition came into effect with the 18th Amendment. The government's ban on alcohol created an illegal demand for the stuff and gave rise to the speakeasies and the bootleggers. The bootleggers decide that in order to outsmart the law, they needed to work together. So, in simplistic terms, we have the birth of organized crime.

 

Now, once prohibition was repealed with the 21st Amendment, alcohol became legal again. So, there was no need for all this activity to occur behind the scenes. however, the organized crime folks saw how much money was generated through the of illegal alcohol that they decided to branch out into other activities and transformer themselves into the syndicates and cartels that we have today.

 

All that being said, I suppose we could liken pressable defects to alcohol and the CGC to the government. The CGC "outlawed" these pressable defects and weighed them heavily against the grade a book possessing them could achieve. The bootleggers (paper mechanics, pressers, whatever applicable term you chose to use) saw an opportunity to capitalize financially and pressing services, which began as underground cottage industries (speakeasies) started to flourish.

 

Fast forward to today and the CGC has incorporated an in house pressing and restoration service into the menu of services they provide. In effect, "legalizing" pressing and bring with that legalization the new found standard operating procedure of having your books pressed before they are submitted for grading. So, it's a win-win for most involved, much like the taxes imposed on alcohol by the government today.

 

So, in closing, just as the federal government was responsible for giving rise to the current environment concerning organized crime, the CGC is responsible for the current environment in regards to pressing.

 

Interesting...

[The-Collector]

Pressed XM 110

 

 

 

 

Unpressed XM 131

 

 

[Hado]

Interestingly enough I was just reading an article about conservation and restoration on the Sphynx

[The-Collector]

Pressed XM 45

 

 

 

Unpressed ASM 67

 

 

[The-Collector]

Sorry about the picture quality. It is the best I can do with an iphone at 02:20.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

 

Example: I have a nice copy of ASM 129. I'd call it VF. (I prefer words to numbers, but call it 8.0 if you wish.) The only thing keeping it from VF/NM 9.0 or higher is a bend, non color-breaking in the upper right corner. It's as if the book was stored with its upper right corner leaning over something. Is pressing likely to fix this? This book is in my collection and I think I would enjoy it more if it was flatter. If it comes time to slab and or sell at some point, having it worth more with a bump up in condition is nice as well.

 

Example 2: ASM 100. The book seems to have gotten damp at some point and is warped/wavy all through. No water damage or rusty staples, just serious waves. Will pressing likely fix this. This book is a duplicate and I could certainly sell or trade for something else I want, but would like to maximize my value.

 

Thoughts?

 

Very high probability on the first example, especially if it's a NCB bend and not even a crease.

 

The second would depend on the severity, but I've seen some serious warping/waviness removed by competent pressers.

 

 

I've wondered just how much evidence of a ncb crease ( not a bend) can be pressed out. I had a book with a 1" ncb crease that had been flattened ( I'm guessing by time and storage) and was nearly invisible on the outside front, but a line of "roped" fiber was in evidence on the interior cover. I was happy to have it come back from CGC a 9.0. After I sold it, the same book later turned up in a 9.4 holder, and I can only assume that all evidence of the crease had been pressed out, or someone dropped the ball at CGC.

 

Good example. There are definitely NCB creases that are visible after pressing due to damaged fibers. There are techniques to address this, depending on the severity.

[Hado]

This is more of a religious discussion than a technical one.

Imagine that

[DrWatson]

I remember Joey, CFPComics, mentioning something about developing a technique where one can press a book without crushing the spine. Plus, I think it applied more to books with the older, newsprint type pages as opposed to moderns or books with baxter paper.