Trading Post/PIF/Giving Tree Discussion Thread

[Boboset]

I want to further explain why it bothers me so much and why I'm surprised it doesn't bother more of us.

 

We have a community here with some of the most wonderful comic collectors in the world. We love comics and we strive to protect our hobby and our fellow collectors and friends. When we feel that any of us are wronged in a transaction we will go toe to toe with the guilty to find a proper solution. We protect each other, you see it all over this site and especially in the sales forum.

 

But that's not the case in the PIF. We don't seem to look out for each other as much there and it's a thread established on selflessness, charity and goodwill. I would think that's the type of thread and cause we would fight for. Instead, most explain it away as "junk donkeys be junk donkeying" and dismiss it.

[HarveySwick]

What ever you do don't PM Harvey several times a day, for multiple days in a row despite repeated polite requests by Harvey to let the thread play itself out and see what happens before any possible rule changes are implemented - he doesn't like that.

 

[jaeldubyoo]

I agree the original intent is gone. Its not really a PIF anymore. The original offer was a simple OA book. Intent was if you got something lying around the house you dont need , offer it up to someone. Does not matter what it is . Seemed to flow good BUT once someone put up a Xmen 100 CGC 9.2 the expectations grow. Now offers have to match. You cant just put up what you have lying around or your extras or what you cant sell. Now you have to put up items that would sell fast if foe sale. Its a totally different animal now.

 

 

I agree that the better items have increased expectations that people go stride for stride or at least try. It's the swings (usually rapid) between the offers that sours the experience.

 

I've personally witnessed swings in excess of $200 in a single day. Recently I noticed something taken that was $100-125 and each of the next three offers dropped by 40-50% until we hit $20. That all happened in a day.

 

It's impossible for the original giver (and the people in the chain) to not feel like someone's gaming the whole deal when you see something like that.

 

My idea of a PIF experience is finding someone in the WTB section that happens to need something and you send it to them.

I agree that with the rules and regulations the PIF thread is more of a trading post.

 

I need an Action #1. Can somebody PIF one to me? Seriously, how often is that going to happen? Won't the JDs move over there to try and take advantage of geneorous people if that were to happen on a regular basis?

 

Yes, expectations have gone up. However, I can see why some cannot sit idly and not say something when JDs take advantage of the better offers and offer very little in return. By nature, I don't say much, but others are more vocal. They serve a purpose in letting others know something is amiss.

[KPR Comics]

It bothers me.

[comix4fun]

It seems like there would just be an ever increasing value if everyone "played fair" and a lot of people would be quickly outpriced from participating .

 

 

Who said "ever increasing value"?

 

What most want to avoid is someone grabbing an item and offering something 1/2 or less of what they took.

 

With a true PIF you never get to see the chain of events. It's up to everyone's internal compass to decide how to paid it forward. Here we get to see it. Here we get to see who's mature and empathetic and who's in it for themselves.

 

No one's putting a gun to anyone's head to take an offer. I expect people here to be thoughtful and mature enough to pass on an offer if they can't pay it forward in kind.

 

 

[thirdgreenham]

I agree the original intent is gone. Its not really a PIF anymore. The original offer was a simple OA book. Intent was if you got something lying around the house you dont need , offer it up to someone. Does not matter what it is . Seemed to flow good BUT once someone put up a Xmen 100 CGC 9.2 the expectations grow. Now offers have to match. You cant just put up what you have lying around or your extras or what you cant sell. Now you have to put up items that would sell fast if foe sale. Its a totally different animal now.

 

 

I agree that the better items have increased expectations that people go stride for stride or at least try. It's the swings (usually rapid) between the offers that sours the experience.

 

I've personally witnessed swings in excess of $200 in a single day. Recently I noticed something taken that was $100-125 and each of the next three offers dropped by 40-50% until we hit $20. That all happened in a day.

 

It's impossible for the original giver (and the people in the chain) to not feel like someone's gaming the whole deal when you see something like that.

 

My idea of a PIF experience is finding someone in the WTB section that happens to need something and you send it to them.

 

I agree that with the rules and regulations the PIF thread is more of a trading post.

 

(thumbs u

[wombat]

It seems like there would just be an ever increasing value if everyone "played fair" and a lot of people would be quickly outpriced from participating .

 

 

Who said "ever increasing value"?

 

What most want to avoid is someone grabbing an item and offering something 1/2 or less of what they took.

 

With a true PIF you never get to see the chain of events. It's up to everyone's internal compass to decide how to paid it forward. Here we get to see it. Here we get to see who's mature and empathetic and who's in it for themselves.

 

No one's putting a gun to anyone's head to take an offer. I expect people here to be thoughtful and mature enough to pass on an offer if they can't pay it forward in kind.

 

 

Some people are going to offer up more "value" than what they take. For whatever reason. They are just generous. They fear making a bad offer of something less. And wouldn't that in turn drive up the expected value of the next offering? Rinse and repeat.

[HarveySwick]

I've personally witnessed swings in excess of $200 in a single day. Recently I noticed something taken that was $100-125 and each of the next three offers dropped by 40-50% until we hit $20. That all happened in a day.

 

The Downward Spiral

 

Person A claims item: $80 - $100

Person A offers item: $60 - $80 -- $80 is $80, right?

Person B claims Person A's item.

Person B offers item: $40 - $60 -- $60 is $60, right?

 

It's not until someone comes around and claims something and actually wants to be generous and Pay It Forward and NOT Pay It Back that the thread thrives.

 

[CAHokie]

As a couple people mentioned, a true PIF is one that is random. That actually does happen a lot with the good players in the thread for each other and others outside the thread. I cant count the number of surprise gifts I have gotten and I have tried to do the same for others. I appreciate that people throw my name up as as being generous but I am nowhere close to a lot of those guys (like Shadowimages, techie, ajullay etc...). I would say my contribution is more in trying to make the new people feel welcome. Unless I think they are playing donkey games then its on.

[1Cool]

It seems like there would just be an ever increasing value if everyone "played fair" and a lot of people would be quickly outpriced from participating .

 

 

Who said "ever increasing value"?

 

What most want to avoid is someone grabbing an item and offering something 1/2 or less of what they took.

 

With a true PIF you never get to see the chain of events. It's up to everyone's internal compass to decide how to paid it forward. Here we get to see it. Here we get to see who's mature and empathetic and who's in it for themselves.

 

No one's putting a gun to anyone's head to take an offer. I expect people here to be thoughtful and mature enough to pass on an offer if they can't pay it forward in kind.

 

 

Some people are going to offer up more "value" than what they take. For whatever reason. They are just generous. They fear making a bad offer of something less. And wouldn't that in turn drive up the expected value of the next offering? Rinse and repeat.

 

It's never happened in either thread (at least for any extended time period). The GT thread was built for the offers to be fairly high priced and people worried the price of the items would get crazy high based on the rules of the thread. However what happened even in that thread is the offer went down way quicker then it went up.

 

Ideally I think a truly generous offer ($100 slab) would be followed by a OA, slab or raws in the $80 - $100 range and then the next guy has a hard to find Kirby sig book that retails for $60 but is on a bunch of peoples list. Guy who wants that is not a big book buyer but puts up a run of Harleys that is in the $70 - $80 range and then along comes another guy who loves Harley and takes the books and puts up a $100 slab, We went thru 5 offers and did not see a steady decline in value from $100 to $20 but we also did not see a steady increase to a $200 offer which is above most peoples budget. A bunch of people paying forward cool books without someone offering up a stack of 6 random TPBs sounds so refreshing.

[VintageComics]

I need an Action #1. Can somebody PIF one to me? Seriously, how often is that going to happen? Won't the JDs move over there to try and take advantage of geneorous people if that were to happen on a regular basis?

 

Maybe.

 

Maybe PIF doesn't work on a chat forum.

 

 

[comix4fun]

I need an Action #1. Can somebody PIF one to me? Seriously, how often is that going to happen? Won't the JDs move over there to try and take advantage of geneorous people if that were to happen on a regular basis?

 

Maybe.

 

Maybe PIF doesn't work on a chat forum.

 

 

 

 

Seeing the inner workings and being able to track everyone's takings and givings saps the life right out of it.

 

Sometimes it's better to be able to do the right thing, turn your back, and hope that everyone else is doing the same. Having it waived in your face when someone's taking arm is twice as long as their giving arm really grinds the gears.

 

It's like my grandfather always used say "I just want the steak, I don't need to visit the slaughterhouse."

 

 

[slym2none]

Seeing the inner workings and being able to track everyone's takings and givings saps the life right out of it.

 

Sometimes it's better to be able to do the right thing, turn your back, and hope that everyone else is doing the same. Having it waived in your face when someone's taking arm is twice as long as their giving arm really grinds the gears.

 

QFT

 

I tried, and was mostly successful, in my PIF offerings, but the process was grinding and having the junk donkeys argue & whine that they aren't really JDs just sapped all the fun out of it.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[vaillant]

I want to further explain why it bothers me so much and why I'm surprised it doesn't bother more of us.

 

We have a community here with some of the most wonderful comic collectors in the world. We love comics and we strive to protect our hobby and our fellow collectors and friends. When we feel that any of us are wronged in a transaction we will go toe to toe with the guilty to find a proper solution. We protect each other, you see it all over this site and especially in the sales forum.

 

But that's not the case in the PIF. We don't seem to look out for each other as much there and it's a thread established on selflessness, charity and goodwill. I would think that's the type of thread and cause we would fight for. Instead, most explain it away as "junk donkeys be junk donkeying" and dismiss it.

 

Honestly Bobo, I am not seeing all these things in the same linear way. As much as it is pleasing to see generosity and friendliness when it stems, I never expected these ideal qualities (or even virtues) to automatically display at each and every offer.

I think it is fair to point out when there is no effort in putting follow-up offers, but that’s all.

[vaillant]

I am also somewhat disturbed to read the comments about W16227 initial offer: some were of an incredible presumption, like one can – or worse should – read in such a way into another person's heart. I firmly believe these are the kind of things which together with abuse are contributing to an increasing lack of interest in the thread… For sure they are having this effect on me.

 

Donkey-mindedness aside, I also don’t like the liberty taken in making fun of topcat’s grammar, especially considered he’s 61 years old, and for this reason alone he deserves an additional dose of respect. I am not sympatizing with his behavior, and this is totally unrelated to his poor response to the thread rules and criticism: I will surely tell him he won’t take an offer if he does not put some effort in preparing a follow-up, but this does not change of a millimeter this basic matter.

 

And to all the sarcastic comments of people who rarely – or never – participated in the thread, well, an idea would be that if it is so entertaining for them just to make fun of it, maybe they could offer some free books as well to give back for that.

[HarveySwick]

First I would like to thank you all.

As far as saying someone bailed me out at the last min and maybe thinking I have a SHILL your wrong.

I have no idea who is going to claim what I have for grabs and if you think other wise that's on you.

I DO NOT LIE to anyone I learned that someone has to have your back at an early age.

I AM A VET. (VIETNAM) I was spit on when I came back to the US and I WILL NOT BE SPIT ON HERE.Maybe SOME of your PARENTS where there to GREET me.WHY DON'T YOU ASK THEM. Really I came here because it is cool to trade books and RELAX.

 

 

I'm not sure it was Topcat's grammar that people found offensive and were ridiculing.

[revat]

First I would like to thank you all.

As far as saying someone bailed me out at the last min and maybe thinking I have a SHILL your wrong.

I have no idea who is going to claim what I have for grabs and if you think other wise that's on you.

I DO NOT LIE to anyone I learned that someone has to have your back at an early age.

I AM A VET. (VIETNAM) I was spit on when I came back to the US and I WILL NOT BE SPIT ON HERE.Maybe SOME of your PARENTS where there to GREET me.WHY DON'T YOU ASK THEM. Really I came here because it is cool to trade books and RELAX.

 

 

I'm not sure it was Topcat's grammar that people found offensive and were ridiculing.

 

sorry if I missed or forgot what happened. Is Topcat a Vietnam vet?

[techvoodoo]

I want to further explain why it bothers me so much and why I'm surprised it doesn't bother more of us.

 

We have a community here with some of the most wonderful comic collectors in the world. We love comics and we strive to protect our hobby and our fellow collectors and friends. When we feel that any of us are wronged in a transaction we will go toe to toe with the guilty to find a proper solution. We protect each other, you see it all over this site and especially in the sales forum.

 

But that's not the case in the PIF. We don't seem to look out for each other as much there and it's a thread established on selflessness, charity and goodwill. I would think that's the type of thread and cause we would fight for. Instead, most explain it away as "junk donkeys be junk donkeying" and dismiss it.

 

 

 

[topcat54]

No, it's what I think of your silly attempt to deflect from your annual baby boy tantrum when people don't claim your funny books in the PIF thread. Weren't you just claiming everyone's parents spit on vets a few hours ago? Now you want to run a charity event with the same people? Seems a tad disingenuous, no?

 

AH I believe I was talking about the 60's & early 70's not in this day and time.

Yes I had a meltdown so sue me. It just seems everyone has ganged up on me because 1 guy likes my stuff at the last min.

I do not even know this guy never meet him or anything of the sort.

 

 

[topcat54]

First I would like to thank you all.

As far as saying someone bailed me out at the last min and maybe thinking I have a SHILL your wrong.

I have no idea who is going to claim what I have for grabs and if you think other wise that's on you.

I DO NOT LIE to anyone I learned that someone has to have your back at an early age.

I AM A VET. (VIETNAM) I was spit on when I came back to the US and I WILL NOT BE SPIT ON HERE.Maybe SOME of your PARENTS where there to GREET me.WHY DON'T YOU ASK THEM. Really I came here because it is cool to trade books and RELAX.

 

 

I'm not sure it was Topcat's grammar that people found offensive and were ridiculing.

 

sorry if I missed or forgot what happened. Is Topcat a Vietnam vet?

 

yes I am