Crisis on Infinite Earths

[hobbes]

[FFB]

OK....here's your proof counselor:

 

Grab a copy of Watchmen #5 and check out the scene structure of the story. Notice anything in particular? Here's a breakdown (bear with me, this will take some lines up):

 

Page 1: Outside Moloch's apartment

Page 2: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 3: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 4: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 5: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 6: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 7: Detectives

Page 8: News Vendor's stand

Page 9: Pirate Comic

Page 10: Dan and Laurie

Page 11: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 12: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 13: Adrian's attack

Page 14: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 15: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 16: Adrian's attack

Page 17: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 18: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 19: Dan and Laurie

Page 20: Pirate Comic

Page 21: News Vendor's stand

Page 22: Detectives

Page 23: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 24: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 25: Moloch and Rorscach

Page 26: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 27: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 28: Outside of Moloch's apartment

 

Last Line in the book: "Everything Balances."

 

Chapter Title: "Fearful Symmetry"

-------------------

 

Now, please don't try and tell me that Frank Miller could pull something like that off.

 

 

Oh big deal. Sure, it's a neat device, but this is supposed to make him the best writer in the business? Come on.

[The Brain]

OK....here's your proof counselor:

 

Grab a copy of Watchmen #5 and check out the scene structure of the story. Notice anything in particular? Here's a breakdown (bear with me, this will take some lines up):

 

Page 1: Outside Moloch's apartment

Page 2: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 3: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 4: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 5: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 6: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 7: Detectives

Page 8: News Vendor's stand

Page 9: Pirate Comic

Page 10: Dan and Laurie

Page 11: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 12: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 13: Adrian's attack

Page 14: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 15: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 16: Adrian's attack

Page 17: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 18: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 19: Dan and Laurie

Page 20: Pirate Comic

Page 21: News Vendor's stand

Page 22: Detectives

Page 23: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 24: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 25: Moloch and Rorscach

Page 26: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 27: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 28: Outside of Moloch's apartment

 

Last Line in the book: "Everything Balances."

 

Chapter Title: "Fearful Symmetry"

-------------------

 

Now, please don't try and tell me that Frank Miller could pull something like that off.

 

 

 

 

ING A!!1 you are a true "COMIC DETECTIVE" Everything leads to the middle !!!

[chrisco37]

Sure, it's a neat device

 

Neat device?!?! Maybe if it were a one-shot. To weave it into a twelve issue storyline, and make it work so well? There's no convincing you.

 

this is supposed to make him the best writer in the business?

 

It's only ONE of the things that make him the best comic writer ever. I can't wait for the Miracleman trades to come out. Put you in your place.

[PedigreeMan]

Stop trolling me, Crisis-loving fool!

 

Today, I will bring you indisputable proof that Alan Moore is the comic writing god!

 

Er, didn't I already do that?

 

Oh, right, I think I forgot to respond to that post. Here you go:

 

 

 

 

Frank Miller is a big fat doodie-head.

 

Dude, no, Scott, seriously. I have two words for you about Frank Miller:

 

Robocop and two

 

 

I haven't read them. Were they bad?

 

 

Is this more baiting or are you really that stupid?

 

I'm talking about the movie! Ya know, Robocop 2? As in the sequel to Robocop? As in the most atrocious film ever to be placed onto celluloid? Miller's writing of that POS more than cancels out Ronin, Daredevil, Dark Knight, Sin City, 300, and anything else he may create up until the year 2020.

 

I'd tell you to go out and rent it, Scott, but I like you too much to drive you to the brink of suicide. But take my word for it, Frank Miller is a big fat doodie-head for that flick.

[PedigreeMan]

OK....here's your proof counselor:

 

Grab a copy of Watchmen #5 and check out the scene structure of the story. Notice anything in particular? Here's a breakdown (bear with me, this will take some lines up):

 

Page 1: Outside Moloch's apartment

Page 2: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 3: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 4: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 5: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 6: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 7: Detectives

Page 8: News Vendor's stand

Page 9: Pirate Comic

Page 10: Dan and Laurie

Page 11: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 12: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 13: Adrian's attack

Page 14: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 15: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 16: Adrian's attack

Page 17: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 18: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 19: Dan and Laurie

Page 20: Pirate Comic

Page 21: News Vendor's stand

Page 22: Detectives

Page 23: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 24: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 25: Moloch and Rorscach

Page 26: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 27: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 28: Outside of Moloch's apartment

 

Last Line in the book: "Everything Balances."

 

Chapter Title: "Fearful Symmetry"

-------------------

 

Now, please don't try and tell me that Frank Miller could pull something like that off.

 

 

 

I like my thesis better.

 

Taking a page from the FFB School of Baiting,

Alan

[deathlok]

[FFB]

 

Is this more baiting or are you really that stupid?

 

I'm talking about the movie! Ya know, Robocop 2? As in the sequel to Robocop? As in the most atrocious film ever to be placed onto celluloid? Miller's writing of that POS more than cancels out Ronin, Daredevil, Dark Knight, Sin City, 300, and anything else he may create up until the year 2020.

 

Daredevil the movie was far worse than Robocop 2. Although I am with you when you say Robocop 2 was a bad movie. And I knew that Miller wrote the screenplay. I didn't say he was a great screenplay writer. Believe it or not, I don't think that the ability to write and draw great comics necessarily translates into the ability to write a good screenplay. They are different media. You may as well pick on Frank for being a bad tennis player as far as I'm concerned.

 

For that matter, I understand that Alan Moore's novels aren't exactly setting the world on fire either. Not that I'd ever bring myself to read one.

[Zonker]

"The Dark Knight Strikes Again?"

[uclapeterg]

 

Is this more baiting or are you really that stupid?

 

I'm talking about the movie! Ya know, Robocop 2? As in the sequel to Robocop? As in the most atrocious film ever to be placed onto celluloid? Miller's writing of that POS more than cancels out Ronin, Daredevil, Dark Knight, Sin City, 300, and anything else he may create up until the year 2020.

 

Daredevil the movie was far worse than Robocop 2. Although I am with you when you say Robocop 2 was a bad movie. And I knew that Miller wrote the screenplay. I didn't say he was a great screenplay writer. Believe it or not, I don't think that the ability to write and draw great comics necessarily translates into the ability to write a good screenplay. They are different media. You may as well pick on Frank for being a bad tennis player as far as I'm concerned.

 

For that matter, I understand that Alan Moore's novels aren't exactly setting the world on fire either. Not that I'd ever bring myself to read one.

 

Don't get me started on Daredevil

[Illiterati-migration]

OK....here's your proof counselor:

 

Grab a copy of Watchmen #5 and check out the scene structure of the story. Notice anything in particular? Here's a breakdown (bear with me, this will take some lines up):

 

Page 1: Outside Moloch's apartment

Page 2: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 3: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 4: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 5: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 6: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 7: Detectives

Page 8: News Vendor's stand

Page 9: Pirate Comic

Page 10: Dan and Laurie

Page 11: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 12: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 13: Adrian's attack

Page 14: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 15: Adrian's attack (centerfold 1/2 splash)

Page 16: Adrian's attack

Page 17: News Vendor / Pirate Comic

Page 18: Rorschach - writing in journal

Page 19: Dan and Laurie

Page 20: Pirate Comic

Page 21: News Vendor's stand

Page 22: Detectives

Page 23: Moloch and Rorschach / Outside of Moloch's apartment

Page 24: Moloch and Rorschach

Page 25: Moloch and Rorscach

Page 26: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 27: Inside Moloch's apartment

Page 28: Outside of Moloch's apartment

 

Last Line in the book: "Everything Balances."

 

Chapter Title: "Fearful Symmetry"

-------------------

 

Now, please don't try and tell me that Frank Miller could pull something like that off.

 

 

Wait... I get it... You're saying that Moore based this issue on an episode of Seinfeld! Jerry is Moloch and George is Rorschach! They spend the entire "episode" going in and out of Jerry/Moloch's apartment even meeting up with Pirate Comic/Kramer! That's brilliant!

 

It's particularly amazing because Seinfeld wasn't even a gleam in a TV exec's eye when "Watchmen" came out!

 

[Illiterati-migration]

 

Oh big deal. Sure, it's a neat device, but this is supposed to make him the best writer in the business? Come on.

 

Seriously, I used to write gimmicky garbage like that here on these very boards back when I didn't want to kill every single last one of you. BUT NONE OF YOU EVER BOTHERED TO DISSECT MY WORK!!!!!

 

Now you will all pay.

 

 

 

...

 

 

Whoa! Where am I? Had another one of those weird "blackouts". Anyway, Bono, I totally agree with you: Crisis was WAY better than "Watchmen".

[PovertyRow]

BUT NONE OF YOU EVER BOTHERED TO DISSECT MY WORK!!!!!

 

Cowflops! I have dissected your work many times. I have postulated and argued and demonstrated again and again. How DARE you include ME in the generic "NONE OF YOU". Unless you are using the "none" to apply to one individual you are replying to, in whci case I say you have erred.

 

And yes, even in THIS I dissect your work!

[Illiterati-migration]

BUT NONE OF YOU EVER BOTHERED TO DISSECT MY WORK!!!!!

 

Cowflops! I have dissected your work many times. I have postulated and argued and demonstrated again and again. How DARE you include ME in the generic "NONE OF YOU". Unless you are using the "none" to apply to one individual you are replying to, in whci case I say you have erred.

 

And yes, even in THIS I dissect your work!

 

Oh! Well, this is embarassing, isn't it? I mean, I paid GOOD money to have a professional see to it that you were led gently to your final resting place, and here you are! Alive! I mean, that's GREAT! Seriously.

 

Surely you understand that had I known you were still alive I wouldn't have included you in my all-encompassing "NONE OF YOU"... I guess the egg is on my face!

 

[PovertyRow]

BUT NONE OF YOU EVER BOTHERED TO DISSECT MY WORK!!!!!

 

Cowflops! I have dissected your work many times. I have postulated and argued and demonstrated again and again. How DARE you include ME in the generic "NONE OF YOU". Unless you are using the "none" to apply to one individual you are replying to, in whci case I say you have erred.

 

And yes, even in THIS I dissect your work!

 

Oh! Well, this is embarassing, isn't it? I mean, I paid GOOD money to have a professional see to it that you were led gently to your final resting place, and here you are! Alive! I mean, that's GREAT! Seriously.

 

Surely you understand that had I known you were still alive I wouldn't have included you in my all-encompassing "NONE OF YOU"... I guess the egg is on my face!

 

 

What can I say? Being Sicilian, I made that professional an offer impossible to refuse!

 

I shall uncharacteristically offer a warnng however - watch your back, soldier!

[The Brain]

BUT NONE OF YOU EVER BOTHERED TO DISSECT MY WORK!!!!!

 

Cowflops! I have dissected your work many times. I have postulated and argued and demonstrated again and again. How DARE you include ME in the generic "NONE OF YOU". Unless you are using the "none" to apply to one individual you are replying to, in whci case I say you have erred.

 

And yes, even in THIS I dissect your work!

 

Oh! Well, this is embarassing, isn't it? I mean, I paid GOOD money to have a professional see to it that you were led gently to your final resting place, and here you are! Alive! I mean, that's GREAT! Seriously.

 

Surely you understand that had I known you were still alive I wouldn't have included you in my all-encompassing "NONE OF YOU"... I guess the egg is on my face!

 

 

What can I say? Being Sicilian, I made that professional an offer impossible to refuse!

 

I shall uncharacteristically offer a warnng however - watch your back, soldier!

 

YOU DO THIS THING FOR ME..AND MAYBE..YOU DON'T SLEEP WITH DA FISHES

[chrisco37]

 

I like my thesis better.

 

Taking a page from the FFB School of Baiting,

Alan

 

I'm on your side!

[Fan4Fan]

Back to the subject of this thread...

 

I finally read Crisis in TPB about a year ago and found it to be very disappointing. Sure, the Perez artwork is nice, but I was somewhat shocked that Wolfman's story didn't have much emotional punch.

 

It also seemed like a poster child for why footnotes are a bad thing (which I don't think... I'd like to see more in modern books) since some story events never were resolved in-story.

 

The plot seemed to meander aimlessly for a while and some threads seemed unresolved (speaking of ones that weren't explicitly resolved outside the story).

 

These are the impressions it left me with. I can't recall the precise details that led me to these... and please don't ask me to re-read it again. It was a bit tedious the first time.

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[Kevin Boyd]

Crisis is definitely a favourite of mine, but in restrospect it is probably because it was a great experience as it happened, not because it is a great read.

 

Crisis is really a collection of great MOMENTS for me... especially in issues 7-12, when the series kicks into high gear - Supergirl dies, then the Flash, then the whole freaking universe in 10 when the Spectre fights the Anti-Monitor at the Dawn of Time. 11 and 12 are the epilogue to that fight... everything is the same, but different... one universe, one history. And of course, the final battle of the original Superman at the end of 12.

 

To a 15 year old kid in 1985 this was mind-blowing stuff.

 

But looking back from 2004? It is a defining moment in the history of the company and a glimpse back at bronze and silver DC Comics, but it's a curiosity at best, not a must-read. A step that had to be taken to enable DC to move forward, attract readership and talent and become company between 1986 and today.

 

The real must-read if you want to understand DC continuity is the "History of the DCU", also by Wolfman and Perez. It's a little dry, but it establishes the ground rules and history of the new DCU established in Crisis 11 and 12. Sure there have been changes since then, but the fundamentals are still there.

[PedigreeMan]

Daredevil the movie was far worse than Robocop 2. Although I am with you when you say Robocop 2 was a bad movie. And I knew that Miller wrote the screenplay. I didn't say he was a great screenplay writer. Believe it or not, I don't think that the ability to write and draw great comics necessarily translates into the ability to write a good screenplay. They are different media. You may as well pick on Frank for being a bad tennis player as far as I'm concerned.

 

Writing fiction is writing fiction is writing fiction, whether it's a short story, a novel, a sceenplay, or a comic book. There are certain fundamental characteristics shared by these different media that ultimately determine if a work is brilliant, average, cruddy, or steaming-turd-Robocop-2-like. Miller's failure on all of these basic fronts (plot, character, scene, theme, etc.) really knocked him down a peg a two as a writer.

 

Don't get me wrong, Scott. Even with Robocop 2 on his resume I still consider Frank Miller to be one of the top five writers in the comic industry today. (For the peanut gallery, that means my "Frank Miller is a big fat doodie-head" comment was simple baiting. ) And his ability to combine his artistic talent with his internal vision lends another dimension to his work entirely. But in comparison to Alan Moore's complete mastery of language, obsessive attention to interlocking details, completely unique take on played-out subjects, and ability to reinvent himself every decade or so? Well, sorry, but there is no comparison.

 

(Query: How the heck did this thread get this off-topic? )

 

 

For that matter, I understand that Alan Moore's novels aren't exactly setting the world on fire either. Not that I'd ever bring myself to read one.

 

Dunno, never read one. Although I heard that a person has to be fairly ... um, medicated ... in order to appreciate them. (Hey, I think I know what to get FFB for Christmas! A bottle of cheap wine and a copy of Voice of Fire! )