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NYC National report from me coming....

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It's a good thing you held your ground. There was no need to budge at all. He's a dealer... if he doesn't know what the prices are, then he shouldn't be buying books at all. At least take out an OS and look them up.

 

This is very true. Plus, this "Bob" lost ground complaining that some books were overpriced, when he puts a $60.00 price on your $15.00 book! 27_laughing.gifforeheadslap.gif

 

Glad you did well at the show! thumbsup2.gif

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ckb:

 

It's a good thing you held your ground. There was no need to budge at all. He's a dealer... if he doesn't know what the prices are, then he shouldn't be buying books at all. At least take out an OS and look them up.

 

I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out what was so heroic about ckb's actions. If I have the story right, he had the books priced at a certain amount, and explained to Bob how he priced them, and then Bob paid that price. Bob then comes back and complains they're not priced at guide after all, and ckb initially declines to re-do the deal. So far so good, and as Foolkiller points out, Bob is a dealer and should know better and can't rely on a "I didn't know the prices" argument. If the story ended there, no issue.

 

But ckb then finally gives in and agrees to knock the prices down, at which time they close the deal. It's only because the dealer next to ckb says he didn't have to do that that ckb goes back to Bob and tells him the deal's off. So if this other dealer hadn't said anything ckb would've just left it alone. So Bob is now understandably upset at ckb's re-opening the deal. And then Bob only wants to buy part of the books at the full price, but ckb says either all or nothing, and if Bob returns the books to him he's just going to hold onto the books and not sell them at all at the con--to anyone!

 

So the end result is that ckb carted a bunch of books to the con, had a buyer, took them back, and then refused to a portion of them to that buyer, or anyone else, even at the price he originally listed them for. So ckb now leaves the con without having sold ANY of those books, apparently out of spite more than anything else. What am I missing here?

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Certainly, "heroic" is off the table, crawling around on the floor fleeing from me as fast as possible.

 

I simplified a bit for the sake of brevity when I said I eventually agreed to a modification of the deal. Bob had said he had only found a couple books 'overpriced' after only looking at a small chunk of them, and didn't want to chance he was going to find a whole bunch without talking to me. Actually, my first response to Bob was 'bring the box back and here's your check.' He said "well, maybe I will only find a few" trying to keep the deal alive. When I agreed to the modification, I was more agreeing to see how many he would find in this second pass. I don't think anything was closed at this point. No more closed then when he bought the books the first time!

 

It did not sit with me well, and I probably would have changed my mind anyway, without talking to anyone. When I went back over there, one thing he did say to me was that he still had only found a few 'overpriced'.

 

Also, I never cancelled the deal. I left it up to him to cancel the deal. The deal was always on until I handed him back his check. The deal stood the way it was when the books were originally bought, and I gave him clear title to them.

 

As far as taking the books off the table completely, I was forced into this by a long arguement in my booth in front of potential customers. Both of these discussions at my booth exceeded 10 minutes. I had two things in mind when taking the books off the table - making the terms clear, and preventing him from sending over someone I didn't know to buy the books.

 

Spite? Maybe. I didn't see it that way. I did not need to sell these books. I had a whole show in front of me, and this was a saavy buyer. He only picked desirable stuff. In my mind, it was incentive to keep the deal intact as it was originally struck.

 

I appreciate your comments!

 

ckb:

 

It's a good thing you held your ground. There was no need to budge at all. He's a dealer... if he doesn't know what the prices are, then he shouldn't be buying books at all. At least take out an OS and look them up.

 

I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out what was so heroic about ckb's actions. If I have the story right, he had the books priced at a certain amount, and explained to Bob how he priced them, and then Bob paid that price. Bob then comes back and complains they're not priced at guide after all, and ckb initially declines to re-do the deal. So far so good, and as Foolkiller points out, Bob is a dealer and should know better and can't rely on a "I didn't know the prices" argument. If the story ended there, no issue.

 

But ckb then finally gives in and agrees to knock the prices down, at which time they close the deal. It's only because the dealer next to ckb says he didn't have to do that that ckb goes back to Bob and tells him the deal's off. So if this other dealer hadn't said anything ckb would've just left it alone. So Bob is now understandably upset at ckb's re-opening the deal. And then Bob only wants to buy part of the books at the full price, but ckb says either all or nothing, and if Bob returns the books to him he's just going to hold onto the books and not sell them at all at the con--to anyone!

 

So the end result is that ckb carted a bunch of books to the con, had a buyer, took them back, and then refused to a portion of them to that buyer, or anyone else, even at the price he originally listed them for. So ckb now leaves the con without having sold ANY of those books, apparently out of spite more than anything else. What am I missing here?

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I think you were more than fair. I've had similar things happen to me, in fact, one of the sourest experiences I had at a convention when selling was with one of those dealers from Montreal that came up earlier in this discussion (the one in front of you with the blue boxes). At our local one day shows he picked out a stack of books from my bin stock, said I was overpricing some of them when I quoted a price and tried to get a better deal. I told him that's the price, take it or leave it and after some "I'll think about it" time he came back to offer a part cash/part trade deal if I could find anything I wanted from his bins for my own collection.

 

I looked through his stuff, and eventually found some decent (fine/very fine) copies of Bat Lash 1-5 that I wanted, but he had the books priced at triple guide! I told him that I would take the five books for what he owed me in trade (which was more than reasonable but still close to NM prices - I just wanted to read them) and he told me no deal so I told him the deal was all cash because he had nothing else I wanted. As I was haggling with me about it he was repricing the books - for example, a set of Astro City Vol. 1 1-6 I had priced at $40 he was repricing at $100! Needless to say I wasn't impressed. He ended up letting me take the Bat Lashes.

 

I doubt I would ever consider taking a check from a dealer unless I knew them very well or I knew people that could vouch for them.

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CKB, appreciate the follow-up. thumbsup2.gif As I re-read my initial post, and saw how snotty my tone was, I appreciate you didn't get all defensive and turn it into a flame war. I hope you're able to sell all the "Bob books" at the price you want!

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I needed all the time I could muster, so I got up at 3:30am and made

the 4:30am train that put us at Penn Station at 6am. It is right across

the street from the show. Why drive and park?

 

I had some space issues to deal with, as I had brought too much stuff.

I made the inevitable decision and relegated the DC and Gilberton

books to the floor. I started inserting empty boxes into the mix so I

could spread out the tightly packed books. I pulled a bunch of $0.10

Dell funny animal humor books to make room for the stuff I might

actually sell.

 

While doing this, I came across two Marvel books that had their bottoms bent

under. It was undoubtably the person who had not been careful the day

before. I avoid this problem by only inserting books when the boxes

are standing on end. (Hint Hint).

 

The dealer who had done this comes back, and wants to write me a

check. I tell him he had inadvertantly damaged some books. He wants

to know how I'm sure, and I tell him. He eventually, but reluctantly

apologizes and wants to know which books. I had flattened them and

put them back, and cannot find them, but say that I don't want

anything from him anyway - I just wanted him to know it had happened.

He's not happy with me, and insists on writing the check for the full

amount of the stuff he wanted, no discount, and takes the books that

were set aside.

 

I put up my Valiant jacket, hanging from a pipe on the ceiling, and

put a few CGC Valiants on my display. I settled on a row of CGCs, row

of Timely/Atlas books and pre-code horror, and a row of bronze/silver

HG keys. It was a small display, and my intent was just to give a

flavor of the variety I had.

 

By mid morning it was clear word had spread that I had some fresh

stuff. The most notable visit was from a dealer that I probably

should not name, as my story is not a good one. We'll go with "Bob".

 

Bob looked things over quickly and asked me what I could do if he

spent $2k+ on golden age books. I told him I would go 20% off if he

concentrated on the Romance books, which he was most interested in. I

don't know exactly what I said about how I had priced the books, and

unfortunately this became a point of contention. My best recollection

is that I said I had priced the books based on Overstreet guide value,

and maybe a little less on some of the Romance books. (There are over

500 GA Romance there).

 

Bob starts feverishly throwing books on the table, not looking at the

prices on each book at all. I had them priced and grading notes on

the back. He ends up with a stack of about 125, including some

Atlas/Timely's (Millie 5 VF) and pre-code horror (Phantom Witch Doctor #1

VG), Gold Keys (Diver Dan #1) but about 3/4 romance.

 

While adding them up with my Mother, he notices I have grading notes

on them, and kicks out a few that have missing pieces. (I processed

this collection right up the the day I left for the show - I had not

pulled these books out yet as I had planned, I had just put them in

order). It all adds up to just under $2300, and he writes me a check

for about $1850. I pack the books in an empty Magazine box, which is

more than 3/4 full standing on end. And Bob skips away.

 

The two book stalkers from Thursday come back. One is a guy from the

states, Tyler. Tyler buys everything that I had aside for him and

more, including both my Marvel Spotlight 5s (both CGC 7.5) for $150

each. He's interested in all kinds of stuff, and likes some of the

40/50's war and horror covers, but concentrates on my silver/bronze.

He toyed with adding my ASM 126 CGC 9.4, but the $125 I have on it is

steep. He wants to think about it. Just a great guy - he came back

various times throughout the day and bought more stuff. I eventually

gave him the ASM 126 on Suturday for $80, when he came back armed with

a GPA report. He didn't need it, since he had spent so much I would

have given it to him for that anyway. I had forgotten to look it up.

 

The other stalker was Dave from the UK. My favorite guy at the show,

and not because of what he bought from me. On this first pass, he

decimates my Marvel bronze keys. IF 1, IF 14, Hulk 180, Hulk 182 and

more. Dave was back at least 4 times over the next two days, happier

each time with the stuff I had and my prices. I would not be

surprised if the total haul was 200 books and $2500. This included a

HG run of Iron Fist Marvel Premier and a near full set of HG Giant

Size. There are going to be some collectors in the UK with some nice

books.

 

That's the full story of those two guys. Back to Bob. Sometime

during the day Bob comes back with two Romance books in his hand and

tells me they are priced way over guide. One is an LB Cole cover, and

the other is a book I believed was rarer than most, a #1. (I

think it was Women in Love #1, not sure). I told him that I priced

the books I thought were more desirable a bit agressively, as anyone

would. But that I was a novice, and could have goofed.

 

It takes me awhile to figure out what Bob wants me to do. He insists

that I told him everything was priced at guide, and says he was

mislead, and in his view mislead with malice, as he comments that I

lied to him. I try to assure him this was not my intent, and we go in

circles for too long. He wants to make a pass at the books he bought,

and return the ones he feels are overpriced, and adjust the deal

accordingly. I'm not pleased with this, but I'm busy at the table and

tell him OK. He goes away and immediately the dealers next to me come

over and say that I didn't have to do that. I hear what they are

saying, and think about it quite a bit.

 

I ended up going over to Bob's table about an hour later. Bob is at

the table remarking the books, crossing out my prices on the back and

adding his labels to the front. I note him putting a $60 price on a

book I had at $15. I tell him politely that I had changed my mind and

it's a all-or-none deal. I would be happy to take the box of books

back and return his check, but am unwilling to modify the deal in any

other way. He is quiet so I just walk away. I figure at this point,

that for every book I may actually have overpriced, there's at least

one underpriced. And I don't get to make a second pass and fix those

prices.

 

Bob comes back an hour later with the box of books, and tries to start

up the "I was lied to" discussion again. I tell him that I'm

unwilling to have that discussion and that the two resolutions (he

gets books, I get check, versus he gets check, I get books) that I

have layed out are the only possible outcomes. I note that there are

no hard feelings either way. He has a stack of books out of the big

stack segregated, and says that he wants to purchase the small stack

at my full listed price (no discount). This was mostly all the books

with big numbers on them, about half the original value.

 

I relay, calmly, that he is not understanding what I'm saying, since

he is offering to do this. I say that if he returns the books to me, I

am going to leave the whole box intact and not sell them to anyone for

the duration of the show. This got the point across that the two

aformementioned resolutions were the only possible outcomes. He says

it sounds like I don't want to sell him any books. I say that I do

what to sell him books, since I already have his money and he has my

books!

 

Again, this discussion goes on for far too long. Eventually he asks

for his check back, and gets really annoyed. Despite his repeated

statements that I lied to him, I have kept an even demeanor. As I

give him the check back, I ask why he's so upset, given that we are

back to the way things were before it all started. I note that I

could insist the deal is done and over. He says he would stop payment

on the check. I say, "And keep the books? How nice is that".

 

And I get a string of curses thrown at me as he storms away. I am

flustered, and a but rattled, but secure in my actions. I apologize

to the people at my table who are actually trying to buy stuff from

me. Everyone in the area witnessed this, as it got pretty loud. My

neighbors came over and told me not to worry about it, that I was in

the right and to just let it go. So I did. And I kept the box of

books intact and did not sell any of them at the show, and still have

all of them today.

 

Fortunately, that was all the drama for the show. I made lots of small

sales on Friday in the Marvel area, with some TV related GK/dells

thrown in. The foot traffic on Friday was more than I had anticipated.

 

 

The way that this is presented says to me that this was a dealer who got a "deal", then wasn't content on getting it. First, you ALLREADY gave him a big discount on a sizable stack of books. Then, he comes back and you re-adjust (you shouldn't have agreed) the amount....then he wants more. This nothing more than someone who feels entitled to have the world kiss his . Second, it sounds like you went and had second thoughts only after you saw that he was fleecing people. I would have simply taken the books back, despite his attempts to do "this & that" with wheeling and dealing. If this happens in the future, don't waste your time and energy. Just hand back the check, take your books and walk away. - Either way, he got a deal whether you readjusted the books or not. I have learned the hard way, sometimes you have to play hardball....there is some people who whatever you do, it's never enough. --

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Saturday

 

Got up at 5:30am and missed the 6am train. The 7am got me to Penn Station on time. The crowd picked up fast and was pretty solid. There were times I was overwhelmed, and was glad to have a family friend, an actor in the city, there to help in the morning.

 

The most sales were made in Marvel Bronze/Silver, although a few Timely/Atlas collectors picked up books from me. My $10 and under Marvel bronze/silver boxes got a good workout and at least 300 books disappeared. Sold a lot of Xmen in that 130-160 range. When I had free time I repriced a bunch of spideys, 40-140 with light sub creases. The dealer next to me saw me with the #50 and took it off my hands. My Xmen 50 CGC 9.0 sold for $125.

 

A collector crazed for photo covers took the the CGC Golden age books I had, a Personal Love 2 CGC 9.0 and a Movie Love 22 CGC 8.0 for guide. I'm pretty sure they were going to get cracked out of the slabs pretty quickly.

 

I had some of the Valiant-crazed crowd visit me. Some came just to see me, others were drawn in by my jacket/banner. I ended up selling about $150 in Valiants, which was nice. Notable was a Rai 2 CGC 9.6 for $35, Harbinger 1 raw (about VF) for $12, A harbinger 1-7 set (no coupons, but NM otherwise) for $20. More importantly, I put a face to a bunch of valiantcomics.com members.

 

Sunday

 

Got to sleep in! 6:30am! Got to the show on time, but the show itself was slow compared to the other two days. I got to reprice more stuff, and organize a few things. A couple board members came by and bought all the Deathlok they could find, including an Astonishing Tales 25. I did have quite a few other small-medium sales, and ended up doing OK for the day.

 

I had some Xmen 130-160 in reserve, and I mixed those in, only to see them sold quickly thereafter. Again, $5 and under each. They were all VG/F.

 

A couple of golden age collectors came by. I sold a few westerns and dells, and got a line on someone interested in some of the Crime I didn't bring with me.

 

More than one person had me go through the DCs I brought looking for bronze (and up into the copper) issues in the war/horror genres. Most of these guys were super-organized, with binders and checklists. One of them was trying to complete a run of dell four-colors! Quite a task. I had many he needed, but not Fine or better. Most of mine are "g's". He was able to find a couple.

 

One of my 'Valiant' friends came back and showed me his CGC results. I made my first purchase of the show and bought three CGC 9.8s from him that I needed for my CGC 9.8 set. Hooray!

 

I took my time cleaning up and getting out of there since I was alone. It turned out to be much easier than loading, and the dealers around me all helped me out, watching my stuff as I made trips to the car with the volunteer help at the show.

 

That's it! I really wish I could have enjoyed the show a bit more and gotten away from my booth. I also had a stack of books to submit to CGC myself, but could not find the time to actually go and do it. That's what the mail is for... :-)

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This probably didn't come through in the original, but Bob really did not want to undo the deal. This was hard for me to understand. On one hand he's saying he was lied to and ripped off, on the other he's hanging onto the books for dear life. I wen't into this a bit more in a later post.

 

Second, my anecdote about the repricing that was going on didn't change my mind. I went over there to say all-or-none to start with. I thought it was amusing the way they were being repriced. Of course, this is expected, but was rather humorous in this case.

 

The way that this is presented says to me that this was a dealer who got a "deal", then wasn't content on getting it. First, you ALLREADY gave him a big discount on a sizable stack of books. Then, he comes back and you re-adjust (you shouldn't have agreed) the amount....then he wants more. This nothing more than someone who feels entitled to have the world kiss his . Second, it sounds like you went and had second thoughts only after you saw that he was fleecing people. I would have simply taken the books back, despite his attempts to do "this & that" with wheeling and dealing. If this happens in the future, don't waste your time and energy. Just hand back the check, take your books and walk away. - Either way, he got a deal whether you readjusted the books or not. I have learned the hard way, sometimes you have to play hardball....there is some people who whatever you do, it's never enough. --

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