Answer from CGC.........

[COI]

Part of the reason is that pressing doesn't bother me at all. Not one iota. So I don't see, and have never seen, what the huge deal is. How it could morph into the 800 pound gorilla it's morphed into around here mystifies me.

 

 

 

Hell, restoration itself doesn't even bother me... but I can sure recognize hypocrisy and a conflict of interests when I see one.

 

Can you also recognize the fact that topics on this board tend to get blown way out of proportion? With most of you working in offices, I tend to think that the "800lb gorillas" started here are more out of boredom than of concern for the hobby. Discussions where all parties truly care about what they are discussing tend to consist of a search for truth, not controversy.

 

Anyway, why does this "conflict of interest" upset you so much? Do you even collect comics?

 

Thanks for your usual "insightful" contributions, COI.

 

Ouch. Please don't insult my contributions. I try ever so hard.

 

I'm not trying to be "insightful".

 

I was being sarcastic. Thus the use of quotation marks.

 

So, by being sarcastic, were you inferring that my usual posts are not "insightful"? Or were you aware that I was not trying to be "insightful", and just trying to make me aware that you were aware that I was not trying to be "insightful"? Or, were you aware that I was aware that you were aware that I was not trying to be "insightful"? Help a brotha out.

[LordRahl]

This is the kind of misinformation that most people argue with. Please reread Steve's post, especially this part

Books submitted to CGC will not be evaluated for the service that Chris’s new venture will provide and Chris will not send his customers’ books to CGC once his work is finished. Nor can books be transferred between companies as they are not one and the same. The comic or comics will go directly back to the customer, not to CGC. Nobody who uses the service Chris provides will be told to send their books to CGC.

[LordRahl]

Why don't you talk to one of the restorers I've mentioned and see if they think that what they do is as boring as you make it out to be? Wilson for one, loves restoring books, and I'm guessing that it pays better than CGC even though I have no idea what CGC pays. If Chris does open a service under CCG and markets it as a pressing service, trying to get 9.0 books up to 9.4 or whatever I will be the first to come on here and admit I was wrong. I don't see that as being nearly as profitable as a full resto service. All the conspiracy theories about all the pressed books aside, I think there are relatively few books that can be pressed from 9.4 to 9.6 or 9.8.

[BassGMan]

Holy moly!

 

I started reading this thread at 95 responses. After about 25, most of which were very negative, I just stopped and came here to respond.

 

My opinion is this. You go Steve and CGC.

 

Steve is not perfect, I am not perfect, Chris F. is not perfect, and none of you are perfect. But I bet that in our own prospective careers that we all want to be successful and prosperous, whether as a business owner, executive or low level grunt (like me at my job). Sure, sometimes ethics and reputation can become a factor. But there is no clear line as to what is ethical, there are as many opinions on that as there are comic fans on these forums. I see nothing unethical in what CGC and Chris are proposing. Do I agree that it is a good move? I am in the middle on that one, but it is not my business to decide.

 

Whatever CGC and co. end up doing, their customers will vote with their dollars, and that is the one and only thing that will matter. Is money everything? Of course not. But IF they prosper under this new arrangement, then that will mean that their clients do not find what they are doing as unethical, and will be supporting their business practices, or at least most of them.

 

If business flounders and CGC flops, then that's fine too. Live and learn. They'll kick themselves for this move, but it is their move to make.

 

Sometimes you gotta take chances if you want your business to grow, so I applaud CGC for taking this aggressive (and controversial) move. I hope they succeed. I have been a little swayed by fellow forumites into thinking that "pressing" is a real bad thing, but personally I am not that concerned about it, and I will continue to use both CGC and PGA after this move with no interuption. As a tiny dealer myself, it may affect me too. If people start losing trust in CGC's product and don't buy my CGC slabs, then of course I will move on. I really do not see that happening though, at least not with my Bronze/Copper slabs. But time will tell.

 

So I'll end this with a statement of support for CGC and gang and wish them luck in this venture. From what I have been reading here, they'll need it. But if I was an investor and owned stock in CGC, I would not try to stop them from making this bold move.

 

Remember, slabbing comics is still fairly new to the industry. Check back in ten years and see how everything is doing. THAT is what matters, the long run, not this month, next month or even next year.

 

Good luck SB ----------Sid

[Illiterati-migration]

This is the kind of misinformation that most people argue with. Please reread Steve's post, especially this part

Books submitted to CGC will not be evaluated for the service that Chris’s new venture will provide and Chris will not send his customers’ books to CGC once his work is finished. Nor can books be transferred between companies as they are not one and the same. The comic or comics will go directly back to the customer, not to CGC. Nobody who uses the service Chris provides will be told to send their books to CGC.

 

Lord Rahl, follow the logic here:

 

Q: Why would someone send a book to Chris to have it pressed?

 

A: To improve the grade.

 

Q: Why would someone want to improve the grade?

 

A: To sell the book for more money.

 

Q: What would you do with a book that has been "invisibly" improved to a higher grade?

 

A: Send it to CGC and have it slabbed.

 

 

Just because the Presstoration Service won't be sending the books across the hall to CGC doesn't mean the two aren't connected.

[drice6900]

Are you trying to explain something to me? Did you really just do a recap of the pressing issue for me? Are you kidding? Do you honestly think I had no idea what the arguments were? Half of the threads around here have been about pressing for ages now, do you seriously think none of that information had filtered down to me? I know all of the arguments AND I STILL DON'T CARE ABOUT PRESSING. I. Don't. Care.

 

What he said.

[goldust40]

Surely we all care enough not to be treated like insufficiently_thoughtful_persons, whatever our opinion of pressing?

[WallStreet Trader-migratio]

I smell CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT......... just like the one "Mother Merrill Lynch" had for pumping stocks through their retail brokers (me when I was younger) and then dumping the stock from their own inventory. This is a DIRECT CONFLICT OF INTEREST ! This will FINANCIALLY HARM ME by loweing the value of my collection. Mother Merrill stroked a check for those lawsuits..... Can CGC afford to stroke a check to me and many others also

[Illiterati-migration]

I smell CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT......... just like the one "Mother Merrill Lynch" had for pumping stocks through their retail brokers (me when I was younger) and then dumping the stock from their own inventory. This is a DIRECT CONFLICT OF INTEREST ! This will FINANCIALLY HARM ME by loweing the value of my collection. Mother Merrill stroked a check for those lawsuits..... Can CGC afford to stroke a check to me and many others also

 

[LordRahl]

I follow and I've already said that I realize there will be a negative perception if Chris does this within CCG. But follow my logic for a bit:

Current situation

1. Joe send book to Nelson/Wilson/Ciccone to press book

2. Joe submits book to CGC

3. Joe gets higher grade, let's say Blue label 9.6

4. Joe sells book for more money

Future situation

1. Joe send book to Friesen to press book

2. Joe submits book to CGC

3. Joe gets higher grade, let's say Blue label 9.6

4. Joe sells book for more money

What is the big deal? It's being done at the moment, in my opinion not nearly to the extent it's made out to be but that's another story. Does it really make that big of a difference that Chris will be doing what Matt currently does? I certainly don't think that CGC will look at a book, decide it could benefit from a press and call the submitter to tell them to send it to Chris. You can question that statement all you want, but it will quickly become known that CGC is doing this because they obviously have to tell the submitter and Steve has explicitly said that they will NOT do this.

[BassGMan]

I smell CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT......... just like the one "Mother Merrill Lynch" had for pumping stocks through their retail brokers (me when I was younger) and then dumping the stock from their own inventory. This is a DIRECT CONFLICT OF INTEREST ! This will FINANCIALLY HARM ME by loweing the value of my collection. Mother Merrill stroked a check for those lawsuits..... Can CGC afford to stroke a check to me and many others also

 

I have my doubts about your analogy but maybe Foolkiller or Fantasy could speak better to the legal ramifications. We KNOW that CGC does not consider pressing as restoration. KNOWING that, if you STILL have your books graded by CGC then you will be ACCEPTING that fact in advance. No one is lying to you. Whether you like it or agree with it or not, you are being told right now what the new arrangement MAY become. Had all this remained secret and behind the doors, THEN you may have a case. But not this way. At least as far as I can see. As far as books you already own? Nothing has taken place yet, so nice try.

[Stout1a]

I wonder what would happen if someone brought a TOS 39 high grade, say a 9.4 And it is not slabbed. But the owner trying too sell the book too the dealer, say's the book has been pressed. Would the dealer give the same for another raw TOS 39 unslabbed, but not pressed?? I would say the pressed book get's less money. Pressing a book is, in my opinion, restoration. Your trying too get the book as flat and glossy as it once was. Any comments on the value thought I just mentioned??

[drbanner]

I follow and I've already said that I realize there will be a negative perception if Chris does this within CCG. But follow my logic for a bit:

Current situation

1. Joe send book to Nelson/Wilson/Ciccone to press book

2. Joe submits book to CGC

3. Joe gets higher grade, let's say Blue label 9.6

4. Joe sells book for more money

Future situation

1. Joe send book to Friesen to press book

2. Joe submits book to CGC

3. Joe gets higher grade, let's say Blue label 9.6

4. Joe sells book for more money

 

There's a fundamental flaw in this logic, namely, Joe would never do this.

 

[WallStreet Trader-migratio]

I AGREE........ In fact, I have several books I bought from FLATINUM PLATINUM on eBay (who has no website or phone number by the way).... Here is the response I got from him regarding a refund on a pressed book:

 

Hi,

 

thanks for your email. First of all before I even begin to dignify this email with a response, it would be helpful if you tell me your name, the books you purchased from me, and the date you purchased these books. Upon hearing this information, I would like to know whose professional expertise you used to judge if the books you purchased from me were professionally pressed. Third, I would like to know what would cause you to crack the books out of the slabs after they were certified and encapsulated by the CGC. Fourth, I would like to know if the books you purchased from me had a blue universal unrestored label. Fifth I would like to know how your expert determined that professional pressing had occurred, when the books passed through the detection team at CGC who determined the books were free from restoration ( which would include any detectable professional pressing). Upon hearing this information, I will be able to judge if you are truthful or you are full of $%&*!. If you forward the information to me and it is credible, I will be able to tell if the books you purchased were purchased by me raw and encapsulated, were on consignment with me (thus were encapsulated by the owner), or were purchased slabbed (thus were encapsulated by the prior owner(s)).

 

My policy has always mirrored the rules of CGC. CGC from what I have been told does not consider undetectable professional pressing of comic books as restoration. If it can be detected, CGC will flag the book as having been unprofessionally pressed and therefore place a purple restored label on the slab of the book with the restoration notes listed on the label. Because undetectable professional pressing of comic books is not considered restoration by the CGC, it is possible that any or all of the slabbed books you have purchased from anywhere and anyone could have or may have undetectable professional pressing done to them. The key word is UNDETECTABLE, because if it was detectable, it never would have made it into a slab with a blue universal unrestored label. It would have been flagged by the CGC and included a purple restored label. If I know in fact that any book I sell has without a doubt been professionally pressed, I have no problem disclosing that information to any potential buyer. My advice to any potential buyer is to CALL THE EXPERTS AT CGC WHO IS GRADING THE BOOK AND GET ANY OR ALL NOTES TO DETERMINE IF ANYTHING WAS DONE TO THE BOOK PRIOR TO ENCAPSULATION. DON'T CALL OR ASK ME BECAUSE I DIDN'T GRADE THE BOOK. IF THERE IS ANYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THE BOOK OTHER THAN WHAT WAS DETERMINED TO EXIST OR NOT EXIST BY CGC, I HAVE NO PROBLEM DISCUSSING THAT INFORMATION WITH ANY POTENTIAL BUYER.

 

Because CGC does not consider professional UNDETECTABLE pressing of comic books as restoration, I have a standing offer of a $100,000.00 year salary to anyone who could successfully press a comic book into a higher grade which would allow it to pass through the hands of the CGC 100% of the time without the pressing being detected by the CGC. I have yet to find someone who can do this. Because I have yet to find a person who can do this, I refrain from professionally pressing any comic books. My fears are too great that any pressing done would be detected by CGC, be downgraded by the CGC because the pressing would be deemed unprofessional, or would potentially damage the book. All three of these possibilities would cause me to lose loads of money. As far as me personally professional pressing comic books in order to get a higher grade and pass through the hands of the CGC undetected, I only wish I could say yes because I would be an extremely rich man. Sadly I can't. I am stuck with buying books I feel are high grade and sending them to CGC to be encapsulated as is. If others can do it and it has been deemed allowable by the CGC, I say all the power to them.

 

In summary, if you are a new collector, I would recommend sitting down with the professionals at CGC who can give you more information about what the rules are for grading and submission of comic books through their company. Being a real estate attorney, I know you can appreciate trying to do as much research and homework on the subject as possible before ever spending one dollar on a CGC book. If what you hear is contrary to what your collecting beliefs are, I would recommend stop buying CGC books as the source of the book and how it became to be slabbed cannot be traced.

 

There is no returns allowed on any CGC graded books, as these books are professionally graded.

 

thanks,

 

Jason Ewert

[FFB]

I smell CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT......... just like the one "Mother Merrill Lynch" had for pumping stocks through their retail brokers (me when I was younger) and then dumping the stock from their own inventory. This is a DIRECT CONFLICT OF INTEREST ! This will FINANCIALLY HARM ME by loweing the value of my collection. Mother Merrill stroked a check for those lawsuits..... Can CGC afford to stroke a check to me and many others also

 

Don't be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. To try to equate this to Merrill Lynch's analyst lawsuit is ludicrous.

[Illiterati-migration]

I follow and I've already said that I realize there will be a negative perception if Chris does this within CCG. But follow my logic for a bit:

Current situation

1. Joe send book to Nelson/Wilson/Ciccone to press book

2. Joe submits book to CGC

3. Joe gets higher grade, let's say Blue label 9.6

4. Joe sells book for more money

Future situation

1. Joe send book to Friesen to press book

2. Joe submits book to CGC

3. Joe gets higher grade, let's say Blue label 9.6

4. Joe sells book for more money

What is the big deal? It's being done at the moment, in my opinion not nearly to the extent it's made out to be but that's another story. Does it really make that big of a difference that Chris will be doing what Matt currently does? I certainly don't think that CGC will look at a book, decide it could benefit from a press and call the submitter to tell them to send it to Chris. You can question that statement all you want, but it will quickly become known that CGC is doing this because they obviously have to tell the submitter and Steve has explicitly said that they will NOT do this.

 

I'm sure CGC won't suggest that someone get a book pressed... that would be ridiculously stupid.

 

The point is that CGC is SUPPOSEDLY a THIRD-PARTY GRADING SERVICE. Once they get into the business of restoration/book altering/pressing, they lose the right to call themselves that.

 

That's the tip of the iceberg.

[FFB]

He was nicer to you than I would have been. You should send him a thank you note.

 

I AGREE........ In fact, I have several books I bought from FLATINUM PLATINUM on eBay (who has no website or phone number by the way).... Here is the response I got from him regarding a refund on a pressed book:

 

Hi,

 

thanks for your email. First of all before I even begin to dignify this email with a response, it would be helpful if you tell me your name, the books you purchased from me, and the date you purchased these books. Upon hearing this information, I would like to know whose professional expertise you used to judge if the books you purchased from me were professionally pressed. Third, I would like to know what would cause you to crack the books out of the slabs after they were certified and encapsulated by the CGC. Fourth, I would like to know if the books you purchased from me had a blue universal unrestored label. Fifth I would like to know how your expert determined that professional pressing had occurred, when the books passed through the detection team at CGC who determined the books were free from restoration ( which would include any detectable professional pressing). Upon hearing this information, I will be able to judge if you are truthful or you are full of $%&*!. If you forward the information to me and it is credible, I will be able to tell if the books you purchased were purchased by me raw and encapsulated, were on consignment with me (thus were encapsulated by the owner), or were purchased slabbed (thus were encapsulated by the prior owner(s)).

 

My policy has always mirrored the rules of CGC. CGC from what I have been told does not consider undetectable professional pressing of comic books as restoration. If it can be detected, CGC will flag the book as having been unprofessionally pressed and therefore place a purple restored label on the slab of the book with the restoration notes listed on the label. Because undetectable professional pressing of comic books is not considered restoration by the CGC, it is possible that any or all of the slabbed books you have purchased from anywhere and anyone could have or may have undetectable professional pressing done to them. The key word is UNDETECTABLE, because if it was detectable, it never would have made it into a slab with a blue universal unrestored label. It would have been flagged by the CGC and included a purple restored label. If I know in fact that any book I sell has without a doubt been professionally pressed, I have no problem disclosing that information to any potential buyer. My advice to any potential buyer is to CALL THE EXPERTS AT CGC WHO IS GRADING THE BOOK AND GET ANY OR ALL NOTES TO DETERMINE IF ANYTHING WAS DONE TO THE BOOK PRIOR TO ENCAPSULATION. DON'T CALL OR ASK ME BECAUSE I DIDN'T GRADE THE BOOK. IF THERE IS ANYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THE BOOK OTHER THAN WHAT WAS DETERMINED TO EXIST OR NOT EXIST BY CGC, I HAVE NO PROBLEM DISCUSSING THAT INFORMATION WITH ANY POTENTIAL BUYER.

 

Because CGC does not consider professional UNDETECTABLE pressing of comic books as restoration, I have a standing offer of a $100,000.00 year salary to anyone who could successfully press a comic book into a higher grade which would allow it to pass through the hands of the CGC 100% of the time without the pressing being detected by the CGC. I have yet to find someone who can do this. Because I have yet to find a person who can do this, I refrain from professionally pressing any comic books. My fears are too great that any pressing done would be detected by CGC, be downgraded by the CGC because the pressing would be deemed unprofessional, or would potentially damage the book. All three of these possibilities would cause me to lose loads of money. As far as me personally professional pressing comic books in order to get a higher grade and pass through the hands of the CGC undetected, I only wish I could say yes because I would be an extremely rich man. Sadly I can't. I am stuck with buying books I feel are high grade and sending them to CGC to be encapsulated as is. If others can do it and it has been deemed allowable by the CGC, I say all the power to them.

 

In summary, if you are a new collector, I would recommend sitting down with the professionals at CGC who can give you more information about what the rules are for grading and submission of comic books through their company. Being a real estate attorney, I know you can appreciate trying to do as much research and homework on the subject as possible before ever spending one dollar on a CGC book. If what you hear is contrary to what your collecting beliefs are, I would recommend stop buying CGC books as the source of the book and how it became to be slabbed cannot be traced.

 

There is no returns allowed on any CGC graded books, as these books are professionally graded.

 

thanks,

 

Jason Ewert

[Forbush-Man]

I'll repeat this so I don't get my messages mixed.

 

I think it's a mistake for Chris to set up shop under the CCG umbrella. I think, with the hobby's sensitivity to any and all forms of restoration, the idea of having a working restorer whose checks are, at the end of the day, signed by the same guy who signs Steve's checks is a bad one.

 

This is IMHO one of the best posts I've read so far !

 

If a seperate company wants to provide this service, so be it. But for it to be 'housed" under the CGC umberlla,....That is not a good thing!

[BassGMan]

He was nicer to you than I would have been. You should send him a thank you note.

 

 

I agree, by the way Trader, with the book in question, how do you KNOW that the book is pressed? Easy to make an accusation though.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Because CGC does not consider professional UNDETECTABLE pressing of comic books as restoration, I have a standing offer of a $100,000.00 year salary to anyone who could successfully press a comic book into a higher grade which would allow it to pass through the hands of the CGC 100% of the time without the pressing being detected by the CGC

 

That's why Chris is leaving CGC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't resist....