Answer from CGC.........

[FlyingDonut]

But seriously, a class action lawsuit? C'mon now, that's being silly. Comic books are NOT a stable market, you can't compare them to other financial institutions. Wallstreet, CGC is relatively new but pressing has been around for a VERY LONG time, and if you're the "NEW BIG MONEY" (ahem), then you should have probably done your research before sinking all this "big money" into funnybooks. If your HG slabs sink, you can't blame anyone but yourself.

 

Nevermind the fact that the securities market is a highly regulated market, whereas the comic book industry is exactly the opposite. Oh, and while we're on the topic, you can't even get a consensus from collectors or dealers as to whether NDP is even restoration or not. I think the McDonald's coffee woman had a better lawsuit than this.

 

Well, the McDonald's coffee woman had a slam dunk case

 

At the trial, it was revealed:

 

McDonalds required their coffee kept at 185 degrees Fahrenheit, plus or minus 5 degrees, significantly higher than other establishments. [Coffee is usually served at 135 to 140 degrees]

An expert testified that 180 degree liquids will cause full thickness burns in 2 to 7 seconds.

McDonalds knew before this accident that burn hazards exist with any foods served above 140 degrees.

McDonalds knew that its coffee would burn drinkers at the temperature they served it.

McDonalds research showed that customers consumed coffee immediately while driving.

McDonalds knew of over 700 people burned by its coffee, including many third-degree burns similar to Ms. Liebeck's.

McDonalds had received previous requests from consumers and safety organizations to lower their coffee temperature.

There were many things McDonalds could've done to prevent injuries:

 

lowering the holding temperature of their coffee,

putting warning labels on the cups not to drink immediately,

redesigning the cups to minimize tipping or prevent drinking in cars

McDonalds knew of the risk and knew scores of injured customers, but did nothing to mitigate the chance of injury.

 

Evidence showed that McDonalds served their coffee so hot to save money. This let them get away with a cheaper grade of coffee and cut down on the number of free refills they had to give away. McDonalds executives testified that they thought it would be cheaper to pay claims and worker's compensation benefits to people burned by their coffee versus making any of these changes .

 

Even the trial court judge called McDonalds' conduct willful, wanton, reckless and callous.

 

On to the situation at hand:

 

Stella Liebeck, age 79, was a passenger in the car. The car was at a full stop so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. [she was not the driver and the car was not moving.] The cup tipped and spilled over her lap. Within a few seconds, Ms. Liebeck suffered third-degree burns over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, genitals and groin. Ms. Liebeck was hospitalized for 8 days, and required skin grafting and debridement treatments. Parts of Ms. Liebeck's body were permanently scarred.

 

Ms. Liebeck tried to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses. McDonalds offered her $800. She sought mediation, but McDonald's refused. The jury initially awarded Ms. Liebeck the equivalent of two days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds as punitive damages. The trial judge reduced the verdict to something under $600,000. McDonalds has since lowered the temperature on their coffee.

 

 

Sorry for the hijack, but this is a major pet peeve of mine.

[Flaming_Telepath]

And a good question it is too...

 

However, I have a slightly different question...

 

Why does anyone believe that Chris has taken any decision to leave CGC? Cause Steve said so?

 

What are you....lemmings???

 

Why did I know some time ago that Chris was setting up a pressing service???

 

How did I know that it was going to be under the CGC umbrella???

 

Why do you still believe this BS?

 

Chris is setting up a service at the behest of CGC, ferchrisakes!!!

 

What does it take to make you people understand that CGC talk with fork tongue, simpy because there's more money in being dishonest!

[goldust40]

Ya Bradley, I used to write these things for elected officials. It's starting to get very political out there.

 

It's always been political, only now CGC are behaving like politicians, with far too much unnecessary spin and misdirection.

[Forbush-Man]

If I was advising Steve. I would say the following. "You need to add the date graded on the label and the original date if reslabbed. That way collectors would know which books were slabbed before the creation of this new company" That way certain collectors will only buy non dated slabbed comics.

 

If that happens forumites your old slabbed comics without a grading date will fetch a premium from the purists.

 

 

Good idea, but I doubt they'd go for it; means less money for them if people only collect pre-pressing dated books.

[FFB]

Nice one, Dan.

[mindriot-migration]

I am sure you will have many questions after this has been posted and I will try to answer some of the ones I can over the weekend.

 

Steve - can you comment on the additional rumor that has been circulating that CGC has already been performing pressing for select clients and/or books that may have been damaged either while at CGC or damaged in the slab after being sent back to the submitter? Also, would CGC allow their employees to offer restoration services "after work hours" (moonlighting)?

 

I appreciate that you posted here addressing this topic, but my questions above remain unanswered and I consider them particularily disturbing.

 

Thanks!

 

then get better because the truth will disturb you even more...

[RS]

But seriously, a class action lawsuit? C'mon now, that's being silly. Comic books are NOT a stable market, you can't compare them to other financial institutions. Wallstreet, CGC is relatively new but pressing has been around for a VERY LONG time, and if you're the "NEW BIG MONEY" (ahem), then you should have probably done your research before sinking all this "big money" into funnybooks. If your HG slabs sink, you can't blame anyone but yourself.

 

Nevermind the fact that the securities market is a highly regulated market, whereas the comic book industry is exactly the opposite. Oh, and while we're on the topic, you can't even get a consensus from collectors or dealers as to whether NDP is even restoration or not. I think the McDonald's coffee woman had a better lawsuit than this.

 

Well, the McDonald's coffee woman had a slam dunk case

 

At the trial, it was revealed:

 

McDonalds required their coffee kept at 185 degrees Fahrenheit, plus or minus 5 degrees, significantly higher than other establishments. [Coffee is usually served at 135 to 140 degrees]

An expert testified that 180 degree liquids will cause full thickness burns in 2 to 7 seconds.

McDonalds knew before this accident that burn hazards exist with any foods served above 140 degrees.

McDonalds knew that its coffee would burn drinkers at the temperature they served it.

McDonalds research showed that customers consumed coffee immediately while driving.

McDonalds knew of over 700 people burned by its coffee, including many third-degree burns similar to Ms. Liebeck's.

McDonalds had received previous requests from consumers and safety organizations to lower their coffee temperature.

There were many things McDonalds could've done to prevent injuries:

 

lowering the holding temperature of their coffee,

putting warning labels on the cups not to drink immediately,

redesigning the cups to minimize tipping or prevent drinking in cars

McDonalds knew of the risk and knew scores of injured customers, but did nothing to mitigate the chance of injury.

 

Evidence showed that McDonalds served their coffee so hot to save money. This let them get away with a cheaper grade of coffee and cut down on the number of free refills they had to give away. McDonalds executives testified that they thought it would be cheaper to pay claims and worker's compensation benefits to people burned by their coffee versus making any of these changes .

 

Even the trial court judge called McDonalds' conduct willful, wanton, reckless and callous.

 

On to the situation at hand:

 

Stella Liebeck, age 79, was a passenger in the car. The car was at a full stop so she could add cream and sugar to her coffee. [she was not the driver and the car was not moving.] The cup tipped and spilled over her lap. Within a few seconds, Ms. Liebeck suffered third-degree burns over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, genitals and groin. Ms. Liebeck was hospitalized for 8 days, and required skin grafting and debridement treatments. Parts of Ms. Liebeck's body were permanently scarred.

 

Ms. Liebeck tried to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses. McDonalds offered her $800. She sought mediation, but McDonald's refused. The jury initially awarded Ms. Liebeck the equivalent of two days worth of coffee sales for McDonalds as punitive damages. The trial judge reduced the verdict to something under $600,000. McDonalds has since lowered the temperature on their coffee.

 

 

Sorry for the hijack, but this is a major pet peeve of mine.

 

Donut

 

You are the first person I have ever seen get the story right Back to the pressing matters.

[drbanner]

I am sure you will have many questions after this has been posted and I will try to answer some of the ones I can over the weekend.

 

Steve - can you comment on the additional rumor that has been circulating that CGC has already been performing pressing for select clients and/or books that may have been damaged either while at CGC or damaged in the slab after being sent back to the submitter? Also, would CGC allow their employees to offer restoration services "after work hours" (moonlighting)?

 

I appreciate that you posted here addressing this topic, but my questions above remain unanswered and I consider them particularily disturbing.

 

Thanks!

 

then get better because the truth will disturb you even more...

 

Well, I'd prefer to hear it from Steve but until he answers I'll listen to your version...

[Illiterati-migration]

And a good question it is too...

 

However, I have a slightly different question...

 

Why does anyone believe that Chris has taken any decision to leave CGC? Cause Steve said so?

 

What are you....lemmings???

 

Why did I know some time ago that Chris was setting up a pressing service???

 

How did I know that it was going to be under the CGC umbrella???

 

Why do you still believe this BS?

 

Chris is setting up a service at the behest of CGC, ferchrisakes!!!

 

What does it take to make you people understand that CGC talk with fork tongue, simpy because there's more money in being dishonest!

 

F_T, if you have EVIDENCE of such things, then please present it. I'm sure I'm not the only person that thought something like that was happening, but without EVIDENCE, it's difficult to prove.

[shrunkenhead]

Apologies for the flippant coffee remark. I stand corrected.

 

Hopefully the rest of my post still rings true...

[LordRahl]

My question is even better. Why should I believe you and not Steve? You're posting a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors on a web site. IF you have proof of what you're posting then present it, if not then I have no reason to take your word over that of Steve and very good reason to take his over yours. How did you know some time ago that Chris was doing this? Hammer could have told you for all I know, he's full of all kinds of half truths and conspiracies and I'm sure that some of them are based on truth, that doesn't mean that they are completely true.

[jbud73]

LR - the problem I have is that both Steve and Telepath said alot without really saying anything. Its called rhetoric and its invaded my hobby to the extent that I can't distinguish it from my work place and that

[Flaming_Telepath]

Yeah, I know, and my real problem is that I have sources that are not prepared to be named (as yet).

 

I will keep the names of those sources intact until such time as they want to be revealed (because they won't be sources anymore), but certain board members had the heads-up on this from me over a week ago, so they know I don't BS.

 

I have never involved myself in a 'CGC slam' thread before, I have never involved myself in a rumour mill thread before, I have never bad-mouthed CGC and their practices before....

 

Because I have never had evidence that satisfied me.

 

But now I do.

 

Sorry, MK, but this all sound lame, but trust me....this has been in the works for a long, long time.

[shadroch]

A few thoughts....

 

If Chris leaves,who replaces him? For many people,the restoration check is the biggest feature CGC offers,the main diffeence between them and the PGLA group or whatever they call themselves this month.

 

How does anyone expect CGC or anyone to label something they can't detect?

 

 

It would certainly appear that CCg would be much better off letting Chris leave and do this new venture on his own. It would appease many,and [#@$%!!!] off whom?Is this just a matter of venture capital?Would removing it from the umbrealla group really change anything except some peoples perception?

 

To me,restoring a comic is a work of art in and of itself,and can easily understand how an accomplished restorer would get ansty after several years of looking at others work.

 

Anything that gets insufficiently_thoughtful_persons like WST out of the hobby can't be all bad.

 

Its now completely obvious,thanks to MKs astute reasoning,that six years ago,Steve and Chris made the decision to not PLOD NDP,simply so they could launch this new service down the road. Anyone that plans a new venture in a new market that far in advance gets my undying loyalty.First rounds on me at our next meeting,Steve. You da man!!!!

[tth2]

I too hope that Chris reconsiders and just does it on his own.

 

I seriously doubt that all things being equal, that Chris will do it on his own. Probably the only reason is if he couldn't agree to commercial terms with CCG (i.e., CCG wants too big a cut). The value of the indirect affiliation with CGC would be a powerful marketing tool that would give him a big leg up on other resto services.

 

Think about it, if you needed to send your books in for some work (not just pressing, but resto too, maybe), would you send it to some completely unaffiliated restorer (no matter how qualified or good their reputation), or would you send it to the guy working under the CCG umbrella who happened to be the ex-resto checker at CGC?

[Illiterati-migration]

Yeah, I know, and my real problem is that I have sources that are not prepared to be named (as yet).

 

I will keep the names of those sources intact until such time as they want to be revealed (because they won't be sources anymore), but certain board members had the heads-up on this from me over a week ago, so they know I don't BS.

 

I have never involved myself in a 'CGC slam' thread before, I have never involved myself in a rumour mill thread before, I have never bad-mouthed CGC and their practices before....

 

Because I have never had evidence that satisfied me.

 

But now I do.

 

Sorry, MK, but this all sound lame, but trust me....this has been in the works for a long, long time.

 

I understand completely, F_T... but just understand that some of us are not in the particular circle you are travelling in, so have patience. We'll catch up eventually.

[LordRahl]

Well you're right about one thing, the "mysterious sources that wish to remain anonymous" thing is pretty lame and really lends more credibility to the opposite side.

[Flaming_Telepath]

My question is even better. Why should I believe you and not Steve? You're posting a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors on a web site. IF you have proof of what you're posting then present it, if not then I have no reason to take your word over that of Steve and very good reason to take his over yours. How did you know some time ago that Chris was doing this? Hammer could have told you for all I know, he's full of all kinds of half truths and conspiracies and I'm sure that some of them are based on truth, that doesn't mean that they are completely true.

 

 

I'll tell you why you should believe me...because I predicted this almost word for word to a number of board members that know me a week ago in PMs and e-mails. The individuals, the premise, the possible connection with CGC...

 

I wrote the [#@$%!!!] 'press release' before Steve did, that's why!

[Illiterati-migration]

Well you're right about one thing, the "mysterious sources that wish to remain anonymous" thing is pretty lame and really lends more credibility to the opposite side.

 

Settle down, Rahl. Lending credence to EITHER side at this point (on this particular matter) is ill-advised.

[LordRahl]

That's a good point and from a business perspective makes sense. The perception of impropriaty is something to think about though. I'm not sure just how many people will have this perception since I'm not one of them. I suppose the conspiracy theorists that think Heritage gets better grades right now will be at the head of the bandwagon.