Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[THB]

And why is GL 76 still #2 on this list. Hulk 181 8.0's almost sell for double what the 76's fetch. What off the beaten path LCS is providing OPG with these #'s? Who has the Neal Adams man crush?

 

 

That's the white elephant in the room that has been ignored. Folks like RMA would rather point out the merits of another poster's auto correct ("Cerberus" vs. "Cerebus", my phone doesn't care either, my man) or how they choose to abbreviate "Overstreet", than the fact that about the only thing Overstreet is good for at this point is maintaining the status quo for old school collectors and giving local dealers something to low ball you with when you try to sell your books. It's great that some dealers can anecdotally recount how well their copies of Cerebus sell when they have them, there will always be a buyer for a book at some price. But again, if the book had an availability that was half (or even a quarter?) of Hulk 181, It would likely not be of any interest to even the niche collectors who like to feel like they have something "rare" in their collections.

 

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else. The value of hulk 181 is intrinsic and real. If Hulk 181 had the same print run as Cerebus it would probably be a 250k book in a 9.4. If Cerebus had the same print run as Hulk 181 it would probably be a 20 dollar book. I believe that is the point others have been trying to make when expressing bewilderment about Overstreet's list.

 

And no, hulk 181 hasn't "slowed". It's actually having its best year from a price appreciation standpoint in a long time. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

If the book was worthless it would not have any demand. I see tons of low print 80's indies in the back issue boxes. The low print run does not make them any more desirable or important.

[lou_fine]

There are only 2 at 9.4 and 4 at 9.0, 3 at 9.4 SS, 3 at 9.2 SS, 5 at 9.0 SS and one restored at 9.0. That is the total of 18.

 

 

I would assume that you are referring to the Cerebus #1 book here?

 

Would you happen to know if any of these HG copies exhibit the typical spine ticks that are so prevalent on this book or have CGC allow them to a certain extent due to the flawed production process of this book?

[seanfingh]

 

As someone that appreciates both books for being awesome in their own right, i find it strange that the print run is being used to somehow "beat down" Cerebus and its place in comics history.

 

Marvel is paramount for many if not most posters. I get that. I love Marvel, too. Cerebus was a simple B&W self-published Conan parody book that became a launching pad for the entire alternative comics movement. By its very nature it never would or could have a high print run. It wouldn't have been what it was if it had been distributed everywhere. If Cerebus had been published by Marvel, it probably would have the same value and desirability as Skull the Slayer #1.

 

But it wasn't. Instead it plays a very important part in the history of comics that don't involve superheroes. Will it always be niche and/or tangential to the largest parts of this hobby. Most likely yes. Is its high value (or price if you prefer) bolstered by its low print run? Absolutely. But the fact that not everyone wants one seems a silly reason to denigrate it. It has maintained a high relative value (price) because the number of people that do want it far outweigh the available copies.

 

Can't they both be awesome for what they are?

[Jaydogrules]

And why is GL 76 still #2 on this list. Hulk 181 8.0's almost sell for double what the 76's fetch. What off the beaten path LCS is providing OPG with these #'s? Who has the Neal Adams man crush?

 

 

That's the white elephant in the room that has been ignored. Folks like RMA would rather point out the merits of another poster's auto correct ("Cerberus" vs. "Cerebus", my phone doesn't care either, my man) or how they choose to abbreviate "Overstreet", than the fact that about the only thing Overstreet is good for at this point is maintaining the status quo for old school collectors and giving local dealers something to low ball you with when you try to sell your books. It's great that some dealers can anecdotally recount how well their copies of Cerebus sell when they have them, there will always be a buyer for a book at some price. But again, if the book had an availability that was half (or even a quarter?) of Hulk 181, It would likely not be of any interest to even the niche collectors who like to feel like they have something "rare" in their collections.

 

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else. The value of hulk 181 is intrinsic and real. If Hulk 181 had the same print run as Cerebus it would probably be a 250k book in a 9.4. If Cerebus had the same print run as Hulk 181 it would probably be a 20 dollar book. I believe that is the point others have been trying to make when expressing bewilderment about Overstreet's list.

 

And no, hulk 181 hasn't "slowed". It's actually having its best year from a price appreciation standpoint in a long time. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

If the book was worthless it would not have any demand. I see tons of low print 80's indies in the back issue boxes. The low print run does not make them any more desirable or important.

 

I didn't say the book was "worthless", something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. But at the same time, this book is a good example (largely because of overstreet) of one with an ingrained, institutional "value" that has far exceeded its actual significance and impact on the hobby and pop culture.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

As someone that appreciates both books for being awesome in their own right, i find it strange that the print run is being used to somehow "beat down" Cerebus and its place in comics history.

 

Marvel is paramount for many if not most posters. I get that. I love Marvel, too. Cerebus was a simple B&W self-published Conan parody book that became a launching pad for the entire alternative comics movement. By its very nature it never would or could have a high print run. It wouldn't have been what it was if it had been distributed everywhere. If Cerebus had been published by Marvel, it probably would have the same value and desirability as Skull the Slayer #1.

 

But it wasn't. Instead it plays a very important part in the history of comics that don't involve superheroes. Will it always be niche and/or tangential to the largest parts of this hobby. Most likely yes. Is its high value (or price if you prefer) bolstered by its low print run? Absolutely. But the fact that not everyone wants one seems a silly reason to denigrate it. It has maintained a high relative value (price) because the number of people that do want it far outweigh the available copies.

 

Can't they both be awesome for what they are?

 

In the grand scheme of things, yes. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[seanfingh]

 

I didn't say the book was "worthless", something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. But at the same time, this book is a good example (largely because of overstreet) of one with an ingrained, institutional "value" that has far exceeded it's actual significance and impact on the hobby and pop culture. people who collect Marvel comics

 

-J.

 

This is what I hear

[mschmidt]

There are only 2 at 9.4 and 4 at 9.0, 3 at 9.4 SS, 3 at 9.2 SS, 5 at 9.0 SS and one restored at 9.0. That is the total of 18.

 

 

I would assume that you are referring to the Cerebus #1 book here?

 

Would you happen to know if any of these HG copies exhibit the typical spine ticks that are so prevalent on this book or have CGC allow them to a certain extent due to the flawed production process of this book?

 

Are you referring to the blue label 9.4 that sold on ComicConnect? Because, yeah, it did not look like a 9.4. The 9.4 SS file copy in comparison looks fantastic with no spine ticks on the front. I personally haven't noticed any particular leeway across the board on this book.

[THB]

 

I didn't say the book was "worthless", something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. But at the same time, this book is a good example (largely because of overstreet) of one with an ingrained, institutional "value" that has far exceeded it's actual significance and impact on the hobby and pop culture. people who collect Marvel comics

 

-J.

 

This is what I hear

 

+ 1

[HighStakesComics]

So we are all in agreement that 100 Page Spectacular #5 has no business being on the top 10 list, right?

Edited August 20, 2014 by blazincomics

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I'm not losing any sleep at all because I don't have a Hulk 181

 

Me either and I've never wanted one.

[OliverS-migration]

I would say Cerebus #1 should be valued higher. Much like Superman's first appearance the first issue of Cerebus is seen as the defining moment when a new comic industry emerged. Historically Wolverine's significance has nothing on Cerebus. And if Cerebus had gone mainstream and been published by Marvel the price would probably go way up just on popularity alone -and I would think that Cerebus film starring Hugh Jackman would have happened by now:)

[seanfingh]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[bronze johnny]

Cerebus 1 is a non-mainstream book that very few collectors want being categorized as a major key. It's not a major key. The simple reason is that very few collectors are seeking it.

 

 

What are you basing this on? I can understand if you personally don't care about the book, fair enough, but don't paint the rest of the collecting community with such a broad brush

 

No, I actually like the book. Let me suggest you not read into my favorable view of Hulk 181 as a knock on Cerebus 1. And this is not about my painting the rest of the collecting community with a "broad brush." Actually, the bristle that represents the Cerebus 1 collector should not define nearly all of the remaining Hulk 181 bristles. It's about my comparing 2 books: one that is an iconic key to an independently published comic. There's no issue when it comes to scarcity- Cerebus 1 is the tougher book. If the SA teaches us anything, the scarcer key is not the most valuable. Hulk 181's demand is only going to increase (like its SA counterpart, AF 15). It's only a matter of time before the same view applies to the BA when it comes to the iconic key.

[Jaydogrules]

Cerebus 1 is a non-mainstream book that very few collectors want being categorized as a major key. It's not a major key. The simple reason is that very few collectors are seeking it.

 

 

What are you basing this on? I can understand if you personally don't care about the book, fair enough, but don't paint the rest of the collecting community with such a broad brush

 

No, I actually like the book. Let me suggest you not read into my favorable view of Hulk 181 as a knock on Cerebus 1. And this is not about my painting the rest of the collecting community with a "broad brush." Actually, the bristle that represents the Cerebus 1 collector should not define nearly all of the remaining Hulk 181 bristles. It's about my comparing 2 books: one that is an iconic key to an independently published comic. There's no issue when it comes to scarcity- Cerebus 1 is the tougher book. If the SA teaches us anything, the scarcer key is not the most valuable. Hulk 181's demand is only going to increase (like its SA counterpart, AF 15). It's only a matter of time before the same view applies to the BA when it comes to the iconic key.

 

+1. And again I would posit that a very large chunk of the "value" of Cerebus is more institutional (read: Overstreet) than real (read: It isn't the "must have" book of the BA, Marvel or otherwise). Its place on the list is just as non-sensical as some of the other books Overstreet also has on there that Blazincomics has mentioned, all of which contribute to the overall lack of credibility of the list.

 

 

-J.

[bronze johnny]

Here's a question to ask the BA key collector who has neither book in their collection:

 

Suppose there is a single highest graded CGC 9.9 copy for Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1. Which would you pay more for?

[bronzilla]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

[bronze johnny]

Cerebus 1 is a non-mainstream book that very few collectors want being categorized as a major key. It's not a major key. The simple reason is that very few collectors are seeking it.

 

 

What are you basing this on? I can understand if you personally don't care about the book, fair enough, but don't paint the rest of the collecting community with such a broad brush

 

No, I actually like the book. Let me suggest you not read into my favorable view of Hulk 181 as a knock on Cerebus 1. And this is not about my painting the rest of the collecting community with a "broad brush." Actually, the bristle that represents the Cerebus 1 collector should not define nearly all of the remaining Hulk 181 bristles. It's about my comparing 2 books: one that is an iconic key to an independently published comic. There's no issue when it comes to scarcity- Cerebus 1 is the tougher book. If the SA teaches us anything, the scarcer key is not the most valuable. Hulk 181's demand is only going to increase (like its SA counterpart, AF 15). It's only a matter of time before the same view applies to the BA when it comes to the iconic key.

 

+1. And again I would posit that a very large chunk of the "value" of Cerebus is more institutional (read: Overstreet) than real (read: It isn't the "must have" book of the BA, Marvel or otherwise). Its place on the list is just as non-sensical as some of the other books Overstreet also has on there that Blazincomics has mentioned, all of which contribute to the overall lack of credibility of the list.

 

 

-J.

 

Good point and another reason why Overstreet is still very relevant today.

[Lazyboy]

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else.

 

 

So you're saying the value of the book is based on the low supply and the demand for the book? That's an interesting idea. I think you may have something there.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else.

 

 

So you're saying the value of the book is based on the low supply and the demand for the book? That's an interesting idea. I think you may have something there.

 

 

Another fun, out of context quote. Yaaaaay.

 

-J.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And why is GL 76 still #2 on this list. Hulk 181 8.0's almost sell for double what the 76's fetch. What off the beaten path LCS is providing OPG with these #'s? Who has the Neal Adams man crush?

 

 

That's the white elephant in the room that has been ignored. Folks like RMA would rather point out the merits of another poster's auto correct ("Cerberus" vs. "Cerebus", my phone doesn't care either, my man) or how they choose to abbreviate "Overstreet", than the fact that about the only thing Overstreet is good for at this point is maintaining the status quo for old school collectors and giving local dealers something to low ball you with when you try to sell your books.

 

 

I'm pretty sure your premise is false. I'm fairly certain I am equally willing to discuss the difference between Cerebus and Cerberus AND the relevance, or lack thereof, of the OPG, even considering your foregone "fact" about it, which is self-evidently not true.

 

Here's some advice: don't talk ABOUT me, talk TO me. Talking ABOUT me is a dismissive technique, and has no place in legitimate dialogue.

 

It's great that some dealers can anecdotally recount how well their copies of Cerebus sell when they have them, there will always be a buyer for a book at some price. But again, if the book had an availability that was half (or even a quarter?) of Hulk 181, It would likely not be of any interest to even the niche collectors who like to feel like they have something "rare" in their collections.

 

You have brought this point up before, and I feel I must tell you once again: no one is disputing this. You are making an argument that everyone is already in agreement with.

 

Do you want someone to dispute it, so you have something to argue against...?

 

:shrug:

 

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else.

 

In economics, this principle is called "supply and demand."

 

The value of hulk 181 is intrinsic and real.

 

 

The word "intrinsic" means "the substance of, the properties of the thing itself, essential."

 

The intrinsic value of Hulk #181 is two-fold: first, it has entertainment value as story and art. Second, it has negligible value as a recycled paper product.

 

That's it. The "value" of the book beyond those two things is entirely based on EXtrinsic properties, like perception.

 

And "real"? So, there's NO demand for Cerebus #1? It's all fake? No one who has one wants one, and no one who desires one actually does?

 

 

If Hulk 181 had the same print run as Cerebus it would probably be a 250k book in a 9.4. If Cerebus had the same print run as Hulk 181 it would probably be a 20 dollar book.

 

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

 

I believe that is the point others have been trying to make when expressing bewilderment about Overstreet's list.

 

And yet, their bewilderment is unfounded and without merit. The data is what it is. The list isn't a popularity contest. It's a "what's worth more?" list. And, in that respect, it's mostly accurate.