RockMyAmadeus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 What I want to know is, why do people abbreviate "Overstreet" as "OS", when it's just one word.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Oh, and the supply/demand dynamic is what makes Cerebus #1 worth more than Hulk #181, clearly, grade for grade. A 9.4 Cerebus #1 just sold for $9,000. When has a Hulk #181 ever sold for that much in 9.4? Never. Not even half. And 9.4 is the highest grade attainable. So, whether one likes it or not, the fact is, Cerebus is more valuable than Hulk #181. The question was not "which is more popular?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 If there were even half as many Cerberus' as there are Hulk 181's, the book wouldn't be worth squat. It's a testament to the true "value" of Hulk 181 that the book sells for what it does, across all grades, each and every day. It's not a gimmicky or niche book that only needs two bidders in an auction to push up the value the few times a year one becomes available. On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, when it does sell, but Hulk 181 is by far the more "valuable" book to 99.9999999999% of collectors and more important to the hobby as a whole, in that it is truly a pillar book. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grails Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, It doesn't appear, it simply is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JollyComics Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) CGC Census shows 149 graded comic books for Cerebus #1. Whooping 6842 graded books for Hulk #181. Many raw grade copies are always selling on ebay everyday. From 9.9 to 9.0, there are 1851 graded books for Hulk #181 included Qualified, SS and Restored. There are only 2 at 9.4 and 4 at 9.0, 3 at 9.4 SS, 3 at 9.2 SS, 5 at 9.0 SS and one restored at 9.0. That is the total of 18. How often do you see Cerebus #1 on eBay? Not very often. I sold one raw grade copy and three CGC copies of Cerebus #1 since 2009. I sold Hulk #181 seven times since 2009. Right now, it is too expensive to buy Hulk #181 at any grade - too many competitors are after it. MSC recently sold Hulk #181 1.0 for $375, 1.5 for $450 and 3.0 for $750. I would afford Cerebus #1 because of the few competitors. I bought it for only $325 and got CGC 7.5 that was sold for $665 via Comiclink last year. So few high grade Cerebus copies are hardest to get. You won't see them for a long time. I can understand why Overstreet gave Cerebus the high value over Hulk 181 because of rarity in high grade. I have no problem to find Hulk #181 between 9.0 to 9.6 anywhere at anytime. Edited August 20, 2014 by JollyComics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, It doesn't appear, it simply is. So you say. Am I not entitled to my own facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, It doesn't appear, it simply is. So you say. Am I not entitled to my own facts? Out of context quotes are fun. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 If there were even half as many Cerberus' as there are Hulk 181's, the book wouldn't be worth squat. It's a testament to the true "value" of Hulk 181 that the book sells for what it does, across all grades, each and every day. It's not a gimmicky or niche book that only needs two bidders in an auction to push up the value the few times a year one becomes available. On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, when it does sell, but Hulk 181 is by far the more "valuable" book to 99.9999999999% of collectors and more important to the hobby as a whole, in that it is truly a pillar book. -J. The character is called "Cerebus." "Cerberus" is a creature from greek mythology. And you are free to play "What If?" all you desire, but that doesn't change facts. Cerebus #1 is more expensive than Incredible Hulk #181, grade for grade. No one is disputing the difference in popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderM Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Cerebus 1 is a non-mainstream book that very few collectors want being categorized as a major key. It's not a major key. The simple reason is that very few collectors are seeking it. It is certainly not a major key. Hulk 181 obviously is a major key. However, Cerebus might still be very expensive because the print run was so limited. It is demand and supply. But yes... Cerebus is no major key because 99% of collectors don't want it - and out of them 90% probably didn't even know it existed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 99%, huh...? I wish that were true...I'd like to buy a few more copies. It is the granddaddy of all independent books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Back to Cerebus 1 and Hulk 181. We can discuss the fact that Cerebus 1 had a print run of 2000 and that it's a tougher book to find in higher grades than Hulk 181. But how many collectors out there are having sleepless nights because they don't have the Aardvark's first appearance in their collections? I'm not losing any sleep at all because I don't have a Hulk 181 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Cerebus 1 is a non-mainstream book that very few collectors want being categorized as a major key. It's not a major key. The simple reason is that very few collectors are seeking it. What are you basing this on? I can understand if you personally don't care about the book, fair enough, but don't paint the rest of the collecting community with such a broad brush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson1 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Cerebus 1 is a non-mainstream book that very few collectors want being categorized as a major key. It's not a major key. The simple reason is that very few collectors are seeking it. It is certainly not a major key. Hulk 181 obviously is a major key. However, Cerebus might still be very expensive because the print run was so limited. It is demand and supply. But yes... Cerebus is no major key because 99% of collectors don't want it - and out of them 90% probably didn't even know it existed.. Major key, minor key, nobody wants it, blah blah blah. I call BS. I've owned a dozen Cerebus 1's throughout the 80's and 90's and each and every copy sold immediately for a premium above guide. Recently, I picked up a few mid-grade copies and sold them to dealers at 25% premium above guide. While 2,000 copies were printed, some were damaged straight off the presses (# of damaged copies is unknown) and several were damaged due to the book's size (somewhere between a comic & a mag). There is a segment of comics readers and collectors that pursue non-superhero material, and having a Cerebus #1 in their collection is a major score. Likewise, TMNT #1, Love & Rockets #1, Albedo, UG's, etc. The value of Cerebus #1 has been on a steady upward trend starting just before #300 was released, and has maintained its momentum. Hulk 181 has slowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 If there were even half as many Cerberus' as there are Hulk 181's, the book wouldn't be worth squat. It's a testament to the true "value" of Hulk 181 that the book sells for what it does, across all grades, each and every day. It's not a gimmicky or niche book that only needs two bidders in an auction to push up the value the few times a year one becomes available. On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, when it does sell, but Hulk 181 is by far the more "valuable" book to 99.9999999999% of collectors and more important to the hobby as a whole, in that it is truly a pillar book. -J. The character is called "Cerebus." "Cerberus" is a creature from greek mythology. And you are free to play "What If?" all you desire, but that doesn't change facts. Cerebus #1 is more expensive than Incredible Hulk #181, grade for grade. No one is disputing the difference in popularity. This is clearly a case of what you collect (Cerebus 1) sucks and what I collect (Hulk 181) rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grails Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 On paper Cerberus may appear to be more expensive, It doesn't appear, it simply is. So you say. Am I not entitled to my own facts? Am I depriving you of looking up the facts yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakesComics Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Which one of you lovebirds wants to debate the merits of DC 100 Page Spectacular #5 making the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakesComics Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 And why is GL 76 still #2 on this list. Hulk 181 8.0's almost sell for double what the 76's fetch. What off the beaten path LCS is providing OPG with these #'s? Who has the Neal Adams man crush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 And why is GL 76 still #2 on this list. Hulk 181 8.0's almost sell for double what the 76's fetch. What off the beaten path LCS is providing OPG with these #'s? Who has the Neal Adams man crush? That's the white elephant in the room that has been ignored. Folks like RMA would rather point out the merits of another poster's auto correct ("Cerberus" vs. "Cerebus", my phone doesn't care either, my man) or how they choose to abbreviate "Overstreet", than the fact that about the only thing Overstreet is good for at this point is maintaining the status quo for old school collectors and giving local dealers something to low ball you with when you try to sell your books. It's great that some dealers can anecdotally recount how well their copies of Cerebus sell when they have them, there will always be a buyer for a book at some price. But again, if the book had an availability that was half (or even a quarter?) of Hulk 181, It would likely not be of any interest to even the niche collectors who like to feel like they have something "rare" in their collections. Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else. The value of hulk 181 is intrinsic and real. If Hulk 181 had the same print run as Cerebus it would probably be a 250k book in a 9.4. If Cerebus had the same print run as Hulk 181 it would probably be a 20 dollar book. I believe that is the point others have been trying to make when expressing bewilderment about Overstreet's list. And no, hulk 181 hasn't "slowed". It's actually having its best year from a price appreciation standpoint in a long time. (thumbs u -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 BJ; I believe you just answered your own question with your own comment as highlighted in bold below: While the Aardvark's first appearance has its place in the history of the BA, does that really justify its being more valuable than Hulk 181 since a handful of people are willing to pay MORE for it? BTW: The valuation of a commodity is normally based upon both demand and supply. There are literally thousands of high grade copies of Hulk 181 versus only a handful or less of Cerebus #1. Sure, demand is definitely higher for the Hulk book, but probably not in proportionate demand to the supply availability of Cerebus #1. You also have to remember that low demand will sometimes also push the demand up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THB Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Everyone should stop complaining about Overstreet and make their own price guide. Then we can complain about the new PGX of price guides updates. I think its good to have some temperament in the industry. And the only dealers and LCS that get my back issue money use the Overstreet price guide. Edited August 20, 2014 by THB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
