Cerebus 1 a more valuable key than Hulk 181? Really Overstreet? Poll on Page 87 3 3

[lou_fine]

Here's a question to ask the BA key collector who has neither book in their collection:

 

Suppose there is a single highest graded CGC 9.9 copy for Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1. Which would you pay more for?

 

BJ;

 

You have presented us with the perfect scenario and definitive argument here for both cases which will clear up this issue once and for all. (thumbs u

 

If there was only 1 single highest graded Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1 at CGC 9.9 and I was given no other copies to buy, I would most definitely without a doubt pay more for the Hulk 181. This is because in your particular imaginery world, the supply for both is equal, so the money would definitely go for the Hulk 181 since we all know that the demand for this book far exceeds the demand for Cerebus 1.

 

Now let's change it to a much more realistic world scenario. Suppose you are at a convention and you see both a CGC 9.2 copy of Hulk 181 and also a CGC 9.2 copy of Cerebus 1, but only have enough money for just one of them. Which one would you buy?

 

Without a doubt and faster than the Flash, one hand would be reaching for my wallet while my other hand would be reaching for the Cerebus 1. Do you know why.....because you might not see another one in similar condition for years to come and after travelling to countless cons. The Hulk 181.....not a problem as it'll probably show up at the next con the following weekend or on any number of eBay websites or auction listings if you care to look, even at higher grades than CGC 9.2. My gawd, and as financially irresponsible and unbelieveable as it may sound, I would even be willing to pay more for a Cerebus 1 Over a Hulk 1 in this particular condition.

 

With respect to the OS price guide, you should remember that they are not there to report on valuations for single highest CGC 9.9 copies of a book. Their highest valuation listing is only for 9.2 NM- books, and when you are down in this shallow end of the pool, the Cerebus 1 clearly wins out over the Hulk 181.

 

BTW: When did the Overstreet Top 100 and Top 10 rankings become a popularity ranking as opposed to a valuation ranking?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Essentially the true "value" of the book is skewed mightily by the low print and nothing else.

 

 

So you're saying the value of the book is based on the low supply and the demand for the book? That's an interesting idea. I think you may have something there.

 

 

Another fun, out of context quote. Yaaaaay.

 

-J.

 

There was nothing out of context about that.

 

I'm not quite sure you know what "out of context" means.

 

 

In this case, Lazyboy completely understood your statement, and doesn't need to have the rest of your post to comment on that particular point. If a point stands on its own, it's fairly difficult to "take it out of context." The meaning is neither altered not lost by quoting only that line.

 

Here's some advice: pulling out individual points does not mean something has been "taken out of context", especially if those points are fairly unrelated.

 

For instance...you could reply only to the sentence above, without quoting the rest of this post, and it wouldn't be "taken out of context", because it is a point that stands on its own merits.

 

Here's an example of "taking things out of context":

 

"The action in this fast-paced, hysterically overproduced and surprisingly entertaining film is as realistic as a Road Runner cartoon."

 

"Hysterically...entertaining."

[RockMyAmadeus]

Here's a question to ask the BA key collector who has neither book in their collection:

 

Suppose there is a single highest graded CGC 9.9 copy for Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1. Which would you pay more for?

 

BJ;

 

You have presented us with the perfect scenario and definitive argument here for both cases which will clear up this issue once and for all. (thumbs u

 

If there was only 1 single highest graded Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1 at CGC 9.9 and I was given no other copies to buy, I would most definitely without a doubt pay more for the Hulk 181. This is because in your particular imaginery world, the supply for both is equal, so the money would definitely go for the Hulk 181 since we all know that the demand for this book far exceeds the demand for Cerebus 1.

 

Now let's change it to a much more realistic world scenario. Suppose you are at a convention and you see both a CGC 9.2 copy of Hulk 181 and also a CGC 9.2 copy of Cerebus 1, but only have enough money for just one of them. Which one would you buy?

 

Without a doubt and faster than the Flash, one hand would be reaching for my wallet while my other hand would be reaching for the Cerebus 1. Do you know why.....because you might not see another one in similar condition for years to come and after travelling to countless cons. The Hulk 181.....not a problem as it'll probably show up at the next con the following weekend or on any number of eBay websites or auction listings if you care to look, even at higher grades than CGC 9.2. My gawd, and as financially irresponsible and unbelieveable as it may sound, I would even be willing to pay more for a Cerebus 1 Over a Hulk 1 in this particular condition.

 

With respect to the OS price guide, you should remember that they are not there to report on valuations for single highest CGC 9.9 copies of a book. Their highest valuation listing is only for 9.2 NM- books, and when you are down in this shallow end of the pool, the Cerebus 1 clearly wins out over the Hulk 181.

 

BTW: When did the Overstreet Top 100 and Top 10 rankings become a popularity ranking as opposed to a valuation ranking?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Here's a question to ask the BA key collector who has neither book in their collection:

 

Suppose there is a single highest graded CGC 9.9 copy for Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1. Which would you pay more for?

 

Cerebus #1.

 

No contest.

 

But that is based on individual taste, and is therefore invalid as a means of establishing an average.

 

As has been stated over and over again, no one is disputing the appeal of Wolverine. He is, arguably, the fourth more popular superhero in the world, after Supes, Bats, and Spidey.

 

But it's not about who is more popular. The list is about what is more valuable.

 

And the answer is Cerebus #1.

 

I'm really not quite sure why there's controversy about this, folks.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

+1. And again I would posit that a very large chunk of the "value" of Cerebus is more institutional (read: Overstreet) than real (read: It isn't the "must have" book of the BA, Marvel or otherwise). Its place on the list is just as non-sensical as some of the other books Overstreet also has on there that Blazincomics has mentioned, all of which contribute to the overall lack of credibility of the list.

 

 

-J.

 

And you would be incorrect.

 

You can argue with the OPG, which is fine.

 

You cannot argue with sales data.

 

Sale: Cerebus #1, 9.4, $9.000.

 

Someone actually was willing to pay $9,000 for this book. That is indisputable.

[HighStakesComics]

 

+1. And again I would posit that a very large chunk of the "value" of Cerebus is more institutional (read: Overstreet) than real (read: It isn't the "must have" book of the BA, Marvel or otherwise). Its place on the list is just as non-sensical as some of the other books Overstreet also has on there that Blazincomics has mentioned, all of which contribute to the overall lack of credibility of the list.

 

 

-J.

 

And you would be incorrect.

 

You can argue with the OPG, which is fine.

 

You cannot argue with sales data.

 

Sale: Cerebus #1, 9.4, $9.000.

 

Someone actually was willing to pay $9,000 for this book. That is indisputable.

 

Yeah, but that book is so rare that I'm not sure that is the market price or the coked up Nick Cage after a pint of Courvasier price, RMA? Maybe it was the same lunatic that piled 30 large into that 9.6 GL 76. Either way, everyone wants to avoid the 300 lb gorilla in the room. That's right, I'm talking DC 100 Page Super Spectacular #5. There's been an 8.0 on ebay for $565 for 3 years. If you want romance, buy a bottle of Johnson & Johnson's grab the iPad and lock yourself in a closet. Don't blow $500 on a comic.

[seanfingh]

 

Greggy has been single-handedly bolstering the market for that book for years.

[CBT]

The number of people who would pay a lot of money for it, exceeds the number who can actually find a copy to buy. Hulk has way more people willing to overpay, but also endless copies available to be bought. I know at least 1 or 2 guys who would be willing to go to record prices if the right copy was for sale, neither of whom post here.

[Jaydogrules]

 

+1. And again I would posit that a very large chunk of the "value" of Cerebus is more institutional (read: Overstreet) than real (read: It isn't the "must have" book of the BA, Marvel or otherwise). Its place on the list is just as non-sensical as some of the other books Overstreet also has on there that Blazincomics has mentioned, all of which contribute to the overall lack of credibility of the list.

 

 

-J.

 

And you would be incorrect.

 

You can argue with the OPG, which is fine.

 

You cannot argue with sales data.

 

Sale: Cerebus #1, 9.4, $9.000.

 

Someone actually was willing to pay $9,000 for this book. That is indisputable.

 

Yeah, but that book is so rare that I'm not sure that is the market price or the coked up Nick Cage after a pint of Courvasier price, RMA? Maybe it was the same lunatic that piled 30 large into that 9.6 GL 76. Either way, everyone wants to avoid the 300 lb gorilla in the room. That's right, I'm talking DC 100 Page Super Spectacular #5. There's been an 8.0 on ebay for $565 for 3 years. If you want romance, buy a bottle of Johnson & Johnson's grab the iPad and lock yourself in a closet. Don't blow $500 on a comic.

 

exactly. One or two sales doesn't make a book "worth" something. The hundreds and hundreds of hulk 181 transactions in any given year provide us with plenty of actual and factual sales that definitely tell us the "value" of a hulk 181.

 

The purported sales of the occasional high grade cerebus are so sparse as to be anecdotal, at best.

 

-J.

 

 

[heartened]

I'd take the Cerebus at 9.9 over the Hulk 181 at 9.9, as the Hulk will come around again (and maybe even be cheaper the next time around as there'll be two now, or three, or four over time). When I was collecting books, I always went for the book that was rarer and more expensive overall first, so that I "clinch" it before it goes up further and out of reach. This is similar to buying all the keys first when starting to build a run. The keys are expensive and so you need to "stop the clock" on them before you turn to the ones that aren't escalating as much in price year after year.

 

[seanfingh]

I'd take the Cerebus at 9.9 over the Hulk 181 at 9.9, as the Hulk will come around again (and maybe even be cheaper the next time around as there'll be two now, or three, or four over time). When I was collecting books, I always went for the book that was rarer and more expensive overall first, so that I "clinch" it before it goes up further and out of reach. This is similar to buying all the keys first when starting to build a run. The keys are expensive and so you need to "stop the clock" on them before you turn to the ones that aren't escalating as much in price year after year.

 

This is the lesson that I would go back and teach myself in 1988. I would also hand write a letter to myself that said, simply:

 

"Buy as much original art of the stuff you love as you can. Also, watch out for redheads."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

What was that you were saying again, Overstreet?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CEREBUS-1-CGC-8-5-2000-PRINT-RUN-SUPER-RARE-IN-THIS-CONDITION-HTF-/251567379955?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3a929595f3

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-1st-app-Wolverine-CGC-8-5-VF-Marvel-Comics-1974-/360905693614?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5407a7d9ae

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cerebus-1-1977-CGC-8-0-ow-w-1st-Cerebus-appearance-by-Dave-Sim-NO-RESERVE-/171397561372?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item27e8173c1c

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-8-0-1st-Full-Wolverine-Marvel-Bronze-Age-Comic-Avengers-/201137932086?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2ed4c14736

 

 

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

Does the Overstreet Guide say that Cerebus is more valuable in all grades? If so, this is certainly valid. If not, classic straw man. I don't know because I haven't bought an Overstreet in 4 or 5 years.

[Jaydogrules]

Does the Overstreet Guide say that Cerebus is more valuable in all grades? If so, this is certainly valid. If not, classic straw man. I don't know because I haven't bought an Overstreet in 4 or 5 years.

 

Evidently overstreet says what the OP states in his subject line.

 

But there's at least two grades where hulk 181 is about 2X the "value" of cerebus.

 

Let the qualifiers commence!

 

 

-J.

[HighStakesComics]

Does the Overstreet Guide say that Cerebus is more valuable in all grades? If so, this is certainly valid. If not, classic straw man. I don't know because I haven't bought an Overstreet in 4 or 5 years.

 

Yep, Jdog might be setting himself up for a classic RMA disciplining.

[Jaydogrules]

Does the Overstreet Guide say that Cerebus is more valuable in all grades? If so, this is certainly valid. If not, classic straw man. I don't know because I haven't bought an Overstreet in 4 or 5 years.

 

Yep, Jdog might be setting himself up for a classic RMA disciplining.

 

I'm always up for a good RMA tongue lashing.

I actually find him to be one of the most learned posters on these boards.

 

-J.

[newshane]

But how many collectors out there are having sleepless nights because they don't have the Aardvark's first appearance in their collections?

 

[bronze johnny]

Here's a question to ask the BA key collector who has neither book in their collection:

 

Suppose there is a single highest graded CGC 9.9 copy for Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1. Which would you pay more for?

 

BJ;

 

You have presented us with the perfect scenario and definitive argument here for both cases which will clear up this issue once and for all. (thumbs u

 

If there was only 1 single highest graded Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1 at CGC 9.9 and I was given no other copies to buy, I would most definitely without a doubt pay more for the Hulk 181. This is because in your particular imaginery world, the supply for both is equal, so the money would definitely go for the Hulk 181 since we all know that the demand for this book far exceeds the demand for Cerebus 1.

 

Now let's change it to a much more realistic world scenario. Suppose you are at a convention and you see both a CGC 9.2 copy of Hulk 181 and also a CGC 9.2 copy of Cerebus 1, but only have enough money for just one of them. Which one would you buy?

 

Without a doubt and faster than the Flash, one hand would be reaching for my wallet while my other hand would be reaching for the Cerebus 1. Do you know why.....because you might not see another one in similar condition for years to come and after travelling to countless cons. The Hulk 181.....not a problem as it'll probably show up at the next con the following weekend or on any number of eBay websites or auction listings if you care to look, even at higher grades than CGC 9.2. My gawd, and as financially irresponsible and unbelieveable as it may sound, I would even be willing to pay more for a Cerebus 1 Over a Hulk 1 in this particular condition.

 

With respect to the OS price guide, you should remember that they are not there to report on valuations for single highest CGC 9.9 copies of a book. Their highest valuation listing is only for 9.2 NM- books, and when you are down in this shallow end of the pool, the Cerebus 1 clearly wins out over the Hulk 181.

 

BTW: When did the Overstreet Top 100 and Top 10 rankings become a popularity ranking as opposed to a valuation ranking?

 

You know why I used the hypothetical scenario. I specifically stayed away from these books in the 9.2 range since Hulk 181 is readily available at higher grades. In the realistic world, the better example to use is a choice between the highest graded Hulk 181 and Cerebus 1. This is fair since Overstreet decided to compare both books at the 9.2 range, especially when one of them had a print run that would easily make it noticeable to a collector of underground comics while the other, a popular mainstream book, is abundant at this grade. If you had a choice between either for your collection, you would take the Cerebus?

 

And yes, Overstreet is about valuation, but classifying lower print black and white independents as mainstream books and saying that the former is more valuable than the later because someone paid much more for it doesn't tell the whole story. 9.2 is the second highest grade for Cerebus 1. The book will demand more money than a 9.2 Hulk 181. Sales for second highest graded Cerebus 1 should be compared to those of the second highest graded Hulk 181s since all things are not equal in the real world.

[akaSteveRogers]

IH #181 in HG?

 

I collect what I like and have no interest whatsoever in Cerebus.

[lou_fine]

What was that you were saying again, Overstreet?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CEREBUS-1-CGC-8-5-2000-PRINT-RUN-SUPER-RARE-IN-THIS-CONDITION-HTF-/251567379955?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3a929595f3

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-1st-app-Wolverine-CGC-8-5-VF-Marvel-Comics-1974-/360905693614?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5407a7d9ae

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cerebus-1-1977-CGC-8-0-ow-w-1st-Cerebus-appearance-by-Dave-Sim-NO-RESERVE-/171397561372?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item27e8173c1c

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-8-0-1st-Full-Wolverine-Marvel-Bronze-Age-Comic-Avengers-/201137932086?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2ed4c14736

 

 

 

-J.

 

Well, this appears to line up with what is in Overstreet from a relative valuation point of view.

 

To be more precise, Overstreet has a substantailly higher valuation for Hulk 181 in all condition grades across the spectrum except for the HG 9.2 listing which appears to be the one and only exception. For example, the OS VF 8.0 valuation for Hulk is at $1,000 while the same 8.0 valuation for Cerebus 1 is at only $600.

 

Maybe Overstreet is not so irrelevant after all!